Tigi, what do you know?

[Bluerinse]

Just wondered what people thoughts of the company are? And what ranges you've tried? And was it any good?

[mm29]

i have a few of their products, some are better than others, clients love them as the packaging is great. will list my faves once eaten my t lol

[LAPirate]

I have used most tigi over the years...... Apart from s factor. I personally don't rate them anymore find them heavy! The smells are overpowering! I used to love tigi back in the good old days, remember the black and white packaging? So many preferable ranges these days. Also they are everywhere now! Every other salon. Has them! ;-)

[Theden]

S factor range is nice but the rest is rubbish and the company are awfull !!!! It's all a gimmick nice smells and packaging but I'd get better results if I spat on the hair ! X

[room 97]

Love love love s factor smoothing lustrizer looks fab on brunettes leaves hair looking very sparkly. Bed head head rush. Bed head small talk. Bed head brunette goddess is brilliant for shine. Bed head hard to get creamy wax is brilliant. Love tigi products only problem is its been sold in places like tk maxx so no longer a professional only product :-(

Sent from my GT-I9000 using SalonGeek

[AmeliaR]

From a professional point of view I agree but for some reason clients love them! A few suppliers have been doing display offers were you get 4 lots of 4 different products and you could retail the at £5 and make a good profit! I think they do retail well and clients think there getting a bargain! Apart from the act that you can get it in Tk maxx and home sense for pounds I think they are good retail items

[TMH]

I've tried them on and off over the years in different salons and don't really like them although bed head is ok. The good thing about them is that they're cheap and therefore easy to sell to clients :)

[Bluerinse]

I'm thinking of changing to their pre lightener and a few bits of styling that I know will sell, and looked at their semi's x

[TMH]

Ooo didn't know they did semi's etc, thought it was just styling so let me know how you get on with them Blue :)

[mm29]

didnt think for a sec u were talking about col,

thought matrix was in ur blood :biggrin: can i ask why ur thinking of changing

[crazybek]

Used to use them but dont rate their products.
They are retailing in boots i believe aswell so kicking hairdressers that have been keeping them going for years right in the teeth
x

[Bluerinse]

didnt think for a sec u were talking about col,

thought matrix was in ur blood :biggrin: can i ask why ur thinking of changing

Honestly? I'm bored! And I'm sick of wanting more info and training and they refuse to send someone out to me because their isn't 3 or more stylists! And my rep is crap!

Don't get me wrong I love the brand but for the amount I'm spending per month for a single stylist salon I get jack! It's top end of 3 figures!! And I'm getting not much back! :( yet other salons seem to get everything when they have a different rep! X

[Bluerinse]

Ooo didn't know they did semi's etc, thought it was just styling so let me know how you get on with them Blue :)

Yes I will do Hun! She is coming out on Thursday x

[mm29]

im sure they would get a wiggly on if you called and explained, always thought tigi cols were lower end so you might be making a step back..

have you ever used vibrance? love it

[Bluerinse]

im sure they would get a wiggly on if you called and explained, always thought tigi cols were lower end so you might be making a step back..

have you ever used vibrance? love it


Well the amount of salons I've converted just on here!! I'm honna scare my rep when he comes out!

[room 97]

Yes i totally agree i do love the bed head and s factor products and clients also love them its just anoying than any one can buy them.Bluerinse Tigi true light is lovely i always get a very clean lift from it and also very little swelling :-)

Sent from my GT-I9000 using SalonGeek

[KayaPapaya]

tried dumb blonde once it was horrible like washing my hair in chewing gum and cooking oil. Wouldn't use it ever again.

[Bluerinse]

I used to love the old dumb blonde!! And self absorbed, moisture maniac and control freak, and manipulator shampoo and conditioner, yes I do love true light! Especially the offer they do it on! X

[KayaPapaya]

I used to love the old dumb blonde!! And self absorbed, moisture maniac and control freak, and manipulator shampoo and conditioner, yes I do love true light! Especially the offer they do it on! X

LOL glad you liked it! You're braver than me, I wouldn't put it anywhere near my hair again. S'pose could've used it for washing up liquid though!! ;P

[LAPirate]

I wouldn't use any shampoo aside from pureology on myself now! Smell divine and you need so little! Redken is a close second! ;-)

[bronzebrunette]

Got bedhead and s factor in salon, like s factor lusterizer i think its called? i cant remember we just call it 'the ghost' (its a funny shaped bottle lol) and s factor dream drops serum, last forever! from bedhead Superstar lotion and queen for a day mixed together for lots of volume. hard to get is very popular. not used much on myself although I did have the rockaholic dry shampoo which was fantastic. have just renewed my subscription with creative head magazine and they free products are from the tigi candy fixations so will see what they are like when they arrive :)

[Summer_hair]

We use the whole TIGI line in the salon I work at I love it. Blue their new copyright colour is fantastic I have been using it since March and can honestly say that I have not had a problem with it yet and they do have great education :D

[Solohair]

I use and retail some of their products. I only tend to stock the ones I like and know do the job well. I get a rep once a month which was a bit too frequent but they were happy to come when I want. Always helpful and get free samples. If you spend so much you get free backwash products. My fav products are

Hard to get wax
Queen for a day - great for volume
Dumb blonde shampoo and condit
Colour goddess shampoo and cond - good colour saver
Urban antidotes recovery shampoo and condit - great for dry hair
Style shots volume shampoo and condit - great for limp hair and removing buildup
Superstar blowdry lotion
S factor flat iron spray - brilliant and leaves fantastic shine, use sparingly
Manipulator - great for moulding
Creative genius - great for limp hair to add body

As you can see I use a mixture of the ranges. I don't rate the catwalk stuff so generally stick to bed head. I used to use their masterpiece hairspray as its lovely but stopped as it doesn't retail well and people find it too expensive for a hairspray. I have tried many hairsprays and find Indola 4+4 one of the best and best value for money, these retail well.

Tigi bleach is good but still find wella blondor the best.

It doesn't bother me that tigi can be bought now at a lot of retailers as I can still manage to sell it slightly cheaper by buying deals with tigi

[Bluerinse]

I use and retail some of their products. I only tend to stock the ones I like and know do the job well. I get a rep once a month which was a bit too frequent but they were happy to come when I want. Always helpful and get free samples. If you spend so much you get free backwash products. My fav products are

Hard to get wax
Queen for a day - great for volume
Dumb blonde shampoo and condit
Colour goddess shampoo and cond - good colour saver
Urban antidotes recovery shampoo and condit - great for dry hair
Style shots volume shampoo and condit - great for limp hair and removing buildup
Superstar blowdry lotion
S factor flat iron spray - brilliant and leaves fantastic shine, use sparingly
Manipulator - great for moulding
Creative genius - great for limp hair to add body

As you can see I use a mixture of the ranges. I don't rate the catwalk stuff so generally stick to bed head. I used to use their masterpiece hairspray as its lovely but stopped as it doesn't retail well and people find it too expensive for a hairspray. I have tried many hairsprays and find Indola 4+4 one of the best and best value for money, these retail well.

Tigi bleach is good but still find wella blondor the best.

It doesn't bother me that tigi can be bought now at a lot of retailers as I can still manage to sell it slightly cheaper by buying deals with tigi



Could you Pm me with what you have to spend to get free backwash ?

Oh no I last used dumb blonde when I was 17!! Not used any for years!! But I do love their bleach! X

[scottydolly]

i can only speak for tigi's original colour. . .Creative Permanant Creme and Radiant Gloss Semi Permanant. . . I didnt rate radiant gloss highly so reverted back to colour touch. I love creative, only time i strayed was for one particularly resistant grey.
They have hoever relaunched tigi colour with Tigi Copyright Colour. Its meant to be amazing from what i have read, every colour intermixable (to the extent you can mix semi permanant with highlift in the same bowl??)
My biggest beef was i tried to get a hold of the new copywright colour having been a faithful tigi colour user for years, but as i was a self employed part time stylist who would be the only one using it within the salon, they wouldnt even look at me for an account, and even when i explained that i was struggling to get the colours i needed from wholesalers as they were being phased out, they were quite abrupt in there response.
I am considering changing to fudge, alot of the other self employed girls have jus done it and so far im quite impressed with the quality of result on the hair. I however am not blinded by attrctive colour charts and DELIGHTFUL prices, so am holding firm for a few weeks untill i have seen more results nd see its holding power. . . . scary stuff changing colour brand haha x

[Bluerinse]

i can only speak for tigi's original colour. . .Creative Permanant Creme and Radiant Gloss Semi Permanant. . . I didnt rate radiant gloss highly so reverted back to colour touch. I love creative, only time i strayed was for one particularly resistant grey.
They have hoever relaunched tigi colour with Tigi Copyright Colour. Its meant to be amazing from what i have read, every colour intermixable (to the extent you can mix semi permanant with highlift in the same bowl??)
My biggest beef was i tried to get a hold of the new copywright colour having been a faithful tigi colour user for years, but as i was a self employed part time stylist who would be the only one using it within the salon, they wouldnt even look at me for an account, and even when i explained that i was struggling to get the colours i needed from wholesalers as they were being phased out, they were quite abrupt in there response.
I am considering changing to fudge, alot of the other self employed girls have jus done it and so far im quite impressed with the quality of result on the hair. I however am not blinded by attrctive colour charts and DELIGHTFUL prices, so am holding firm for a few weeks untill i have seen more results nd see its holding power. . . . scary stuff changing colour brand haha x



That's a great review, cheers mister not seen you for ages!! Xx

[classixuk]

I've been where you are now Blue (probably when I was about your age) and to be honest I think you'd be making a big mistake. I really do.

Reverting from Matrix to Tigi would be a massive step backwards - why carry a brand that is 1. Old fashioned, 2. Purely cosmetic, 3. Available everywhere including the nastiest discount stores, and 4. Made by the same manufacturer (Unilever) as Tresemme - another "salon brand they bought" and watered down to nothing to sell to the consumer market?

You may as well go blow your money on a Rover car - they were good once too.

I would urge you to think about how you're feeling and ask yourself if you want the same for your clients? So, you're feeling like you spend a lot of money every month and your rep doesn't appreciate you? You feel as if you're not being given enough incentive or promotional offers ('what do you mean I have to buy 4 boxes of each product to get a free poster/shelf/sample? I just bought 6 boxes of each last month and 3 items aren't selling yet, and that's due to the fact I have no promotional materials to push them!', 'God, I am sat here with all this colour and all these products and now he wants me to buy yet another box of new stuff/training date (that's nowhere near me)/ refusing to have a tech come visit me' etc.)?

So it's a free world, and you could be spending your money with someone who appreciates it and values you more? After all, you spend ALOT of money right?

Hold onto that feeling and imagine you go with Tigi -

1. You still have all your Matrix products to sell
2. You still have all your Matrix colour to use.
3. You now have competing products from Tigi.

Your client who spends £35 every 6 weeks notices you are using different stuff. She recognises it from TK Maxx. You are charging about £8 for a shampoo. When next in TK Maxx she spots the backwash size priced at a fiver.

Instantly you have aligned your entire "worth" with TK Maxx. Your service, your brand, and your perceived level in the market. What's worse is that for her you are still charging the same prices as you did when you used that nice organic stuff in the white bottles. Suddenly you are not so special anymore. You use stuff she can buy herself in a discount store, and cheaper than you sell it for too! Suddenly, you might seem a bit 'expensive' for what you offer.

She might be feeling a bit down one day and decide to 'treat herself'. Let me give you a tip ... when a woman wants to treat herself she doesn't go looking at the usual Revlon make-up stand in Asda - it's a bottle of Chanel, a pair of Jimmy Choos, perhaps a Radley handbag.

Where does a (now overpriced) bottle of Dumb Blonde shampoo from you and your salon fit into that equation? Where does your salon even fit into that equation? Perhaps that nice salon down the road might be worth the extra £15 for her appointment? After all, she wants to treat herself, and they have nice organic products in white bottles too. ;) LOL

At the end of the day your rep is just a rep. For what it's worth, I have seen the "Matrix Flowchart" of what they are allowed to offer if an account is "under threat" i.e. like yourself, and L'Oreal are quite strict about what can be done. One of the things they consider is "3 or more stylists?" in which case they would offer a free technical visit to your salon. Right now, the best you would be able to get is probably a free training credit outside of the salon on a course with a value of about £99. This has to be approved by head office too as L'Oreal charge the distributor for each delegate who is on a course - the "Discover Matrix" course is the only one that is provided to the distributor for free. This is why it's hard for reps to be able to 'show their appreciation' at times - I'm sure your rep personally appreciates your spend and values you as a customer, but he has a boss (Alan Howard) who buys stuff from a supplier called Matrix, and he, as a mere rep, is pretty much left out of the equation when it comes to what he can offer and what he can't to Matrix users (probably much to his despair).

Sorry for the long reply, but I don't want you to make the same mistakes that I made when I was in my twenties and had my first salon due to the same frustrations I too was experiencing. The fact my eyes need to be help open with matchsticks right now probably doesn't help either and in the morning I'll read this all back and think, "Boy you can waffle when you're tired". LOL

But basically, you're on the right track. You have your first salon and your monthly spend suggests you're heading in the right direction. From here you need to move on up, not down, when it comes to products and services available. Part of your problem is probably expecting too much - you care so much for something, get right into it and then feel disheartened when there is no more left to learn. Slow down, otherwise you'll go through 10 different product lines by the time you've been in business an equal number of years.

Have a chat with your rep and explain you're feeling a bit bored with what's on offer. Ask him what he's got that's new, but explain you want something with more rewards or opportunities than he is currently able to offer with Matrix - something they have more leeway with. The very fact you cannot ever get Tigi VAT FREE should tell you that a partnership with Unilever would be even more restrictive and unsatisfying than Matrix. I'm sure he'll be happy to introduce a second line to you that would sit nicely alongside Matrix, after all, Alan Howard/EWD do stock quite a few lines, and there will be some that they can offer more movement on.

My last piece of advice would be not to get too hung up on price, and concentrate instead on the quality/exclusivity. In our salons we sell a hairspray that costs £18. We have a conditioner that sells for £23. We even sell a box of 20 teabags that costs a staggering £12.My best selling wax is £20. I don't stock them because they are expensive, I stock them because they work better than any other I have tried, plus they are exclusive to me and my salon in our local area - they are special "treats" that clients can and do buy for themselves to cheer themselves up in an otherwise gloomy world. As the L'Oreal saying goes, "Because I'm worth it" is worth remembering.

Hope some of this helps.

Good luck! ;)

[JosephJunior_]

There one of my favorite products! After Kerastase and Loreal of course! Ha ha. There shampoos and conditioners are amazing. The only thing that I don't like are there antidotes. The fact that they say there strengthening but really don't. There just filled with silicone to make the hair feel soft and silky . And boy does it I was hooked before I found this out! But there new reborn range is quite nice. Can't wait to get it all in the salon. :)

[dukeofyork]

I would have to agree blue. Our rep is crap so do what i did and call matrix direct or speak the the warehouse direct i get most of what i want for free and i probably order less than you (if you want the contact details pm me)

Tigi have some really nice products but they sell them in tkmaxx how can us salons compete

Why don't you add ranges to what you currently stock instead of making the full jump a range like big sexy hair or similar x

Sent from my GT-N7000 using SalonGeek

[Bluerinse]

I would have to agree blue. Our rep is crap so do what i did and call matrix direct or speak the the warehouse direct i get most of what i want for free and i probably order less than you (if you want the contact details pm me)

Tigi have some really nice products but they sell them in tkmaxx how can us salons compete

Why don't you add ranges to what you currently stock instead of making the full jump a range like big sexy hair or similar x

Sent from my GT-N7000 using SalonGeek


I wish I could order direct from matrix!! I hate crap reps!!

[scottydolly]

That's a great review, cheers mister not seen you for ages!! Xx

No probs. I totally get what you mean. It seems all too easy to get bored and want to change but it totes scary hahaha. Tigi
Seems
To
Be taking quite a bashing but alot of
There products are really nice xxx

[Summer_hair]

Here in the states TIGI has gone direct to keep everything out of the discount stores. The Hair-Reborn is an inclusive product and ONLY higher end salons can get it and they wont sell it to the salon next door if you have it it your salon. Its really nice product it was one of the only shampoo's ans conditioners that kept my extensions looking good!

[Pinkpants]

Love my tigi products and so do my clients :-)
Yes you can get odds in tkmaxx but that's true of lots of other professional products, you could not walk in at any given time and pick up your favourite shampoo and conditioner.
I don't use their colours, they used to be poor quality but as said they have ad a revamp and changed. The rep tried their best to get me to switch but I am happy with using mainly affanarge and matrix.
It's the only product I find i can retail in my area. Clients won't pay anymore and they buy it because everyone knows the name.
I could not live with out manipulator, queen 4 a day, small talk & many more ;-)

[kellylill]

I used to use Tigi when I was working in a salon. Love the stuff, all the products were fab and easy to sell. Never used the colours though. I went on a Tigi cutting course as well which was really good. My manager was an ambassador for them and was very passionate about it so that won us and the clients over even more.

[Bluerinse]

No probs. I totally get what you mean. It seems all too easy to get bored and want to change but it totes scary hahaha. Tigi
Seems
To
Be taking quite a bashing but alot of
There products are really nice xxx



If I want a bright red that didn't fade to an orange would you recommend 66/64 with /66 mix master with maybe a dot of /2 and 8.5vol?

[Summer_hair]

Are you using the copyright colour?

[Bluerinse]

Are you using the copyright colour?

Looking at it, just planning certain colours I wanna try x

[Summer_hair]

Thats weird I posted my thoughts and it went away......Yes you could do that but instead of the /2 I would do /1 to cut the orange.

[Summer_hair]

Another pretty bright red is 77/66 with meshestrips of /66 it looks like a Rianna red, If you want you can mix 55/66 +77/66 to get a level 6 red without any orange

[Bluerinse]

And as for a blue/violet toner ?

[Summer_hair]

They have 0/02 that one is a natural violet toner and 0/28 and that is a natural violet ash toner that would be in your gloss.........I use the 0/28 95% of the time

[natashatodd]

Just wondered what people thoughts of the company are? And what ranges you've tried? And was it any good?

Tigi as a company are poor you will get nothing from them except an headache, i've been with Matrix for about 7 years and i've been really pleased with the support i've received. We've had technicians out the salon but i feel the happy hours are great. I've personally never dealt with a company that offers as much free training as Matrix and the fact that you can use club matrix vouchers for courses is great too or simply use them for backwash and developers. I doubt many companies give 5% of your monthly spend back which is what the club matrix vouchers work out to.This is just my personal view i wouldn't move anyway because i love the results from all the range,i've never worked with a range that gives such great results :-)

[Bluerinse]

Tigi as a company are poor you will get nothing from them except an headache, i've been with Matrix for about 7 years and i've been really pleased with the support i've received. We've had technicians out the salon but i feel the happy hours are great. I've personally never dealt with a company that offers as much free training as Matrix and the fact that you can use club matrix vouchers for courses is great too or simply use them for backwash and developers. I doubt many companies give 5% of your monthly spend back which is what the club matrix vouchers work out to.This is just my personal view i wouldn't move anyway because i love the results from all the range,i've never worked with a range that gives such great results :-)



It's great when you can actually use them! Or get them sent out!! But I can't get to training and they won't send anyone out!

[scottydolly]

If I want a bright red that didn't fade to an orange would you recommend 66/64 with /66 mix master with maybe a dot of /2 and 8.5vol?

in creative i used 66/66 but wi copywrite they cut that one out i think? but i always added in a bit of violet tone to take the copper edge off, never thought of stickin blue in for fear of it going purple, but the above poster has done and turned out fine. . .might try that in future with the red creative ones :-) x

[Bluerinse]

in creative i used 66/66 but wi copywrite they cut that one out i think? but i always added in a bit of violet tone to take the copper edge off, never thought of stickin blue in for fear of it going purple, but the above poster has done and turned out fine. . .might try that in future with the red creative ones :-) x



Have you heard the opening price? For colour! You want it lol x

[Summer_hair]

Yes they did cut that 66/66 out in the new copyright but its easy to make with 55/66 and 77/66

[Bluerinse]

Yes they did cut that 66/66 out in the new copyright but its easy to make with 55/66 and 77/66

I like the fact that 10/0, 100/00 and /00 will shift colour!!

Just update you all, I've had tigi rep in today, opened an account order a few random bed head products that my clients already use and ask for! And some bleach as I wanna compare it to v-light but I used to love true light!!

As for colour, I'll prob stay with matrix as im scared of something new but might run it along side matrix, sonice got 2 colour lines but I'm having a demo day, as it's free!

[Summer_hair]

LOL Blue I did not believe that it would lift and shift so that was the first thing I did when I got a chance to play. Check out the truelight/white I love that stuff!

[Bluerinse]

LOL Blue I did not believe that it would lift and shift so that was the first thing I did when I got a chance to play. Check out the truelight/white I love that stuff!

I'm not keen on white bleach, prefer violet/blue, but I wanna tone mine with highlift mixed with gloss and blue mixtone x

[Summer_hair]

I haven't tried to mix the H/L with the glosses yet.......I know you can it just does not make sense to me. If you do that let me know how the hair looks and feels

[scottydolly]

I like the fact that 10/0, 100/00 and /00 will shift colour!!

Just update you all, I've had tigi rep in today, opened an account order a few random bed head products that my clients already use and ask for! And some bleach as I wanna compare it to v-light but I used to love true light!!

As for colour, I'll prob stay with matrix as im scared of something new but might run it along side matrix, sonice got 2 colour lines but I'm having a demo day, as it's free!


How much of a shift did these give? Can you expand as all I've learned about the copyright is from reading the stuff on there website x

[Bluerinse]

How much of a shift did these give? Can you expand as all I've learned about the copyright is from reading the stuff on there website x

That's what I'm wanting to know too x

[Summer_hair]

depends on how much colour build and how long you leave it for. I used the 100/00 on level 6 pre-pigmented and got a beautiful carmel color, /00 seems to lift about 1/2 shade and 10/0 lifted 1 shade for me all pre-pigmented

[Bluerinse]

How much of a shift did these give? Can you expand as all I've learned about the copyright is from reading the stuff on there website x

Ok i put 100/0 on Asian hair was coloured 6 but had a lot of build up, I used 40 but cud of used 20 looking back...I got a beautiful biscuit caramel around 8 lush colour, if you wanted to get it nice u could use 100/0 with 10/21 or /88

[rachwalton]

i can only speak for tigi's original colour. . .Creative Permanant Creme and Radiant Gloss Semi Permanant. . . I didnt rate radiant gloss highly so reverted back to colour touch. I love creative, only time i strayed was for one particularly resistant grey.
They have hoever relaunched tigi colour with Tigi Copyright Colour. Its meant to be amazing from what i have read, every colour intermixable (to the extent you can mix semi permanant with highlift in the same bowl??)
My biggest beef was i tried to get a hold of the new copywright colour having been a faithful tigi colour user for years, but as i was a self employed part time stylist who would be the only one using it within the salon, they wouldnt even look at me for an account, and even when i explained that i was struggling to get the colours i needed from wholesalers as they were being phased out, they were quite abrupt in there response.
I am considering changing to fudge, alot of the other self employed girls have jus done it and so far im quite impressed with the quality of result on the hair. I however am not blinded by attrctive colour charts and DELIGHTFUL prices, so am holding firm for a few weeks untill i have seen more results nd see its holding power. . . . scary stuff changing colour brand haha x
hi ive always used wella as a mobile and in salon but have just gone to work in a new salon which use fudge and i love it. havent used the hilifts yet so waiting to see what they are like. tempted to change to fudge on my mobile clients cos you get more for your money 100ml base tubes.x

[scottydolly]

hi ive always used wella as a mobile and in salon but have just gone to work in a new salon which use fudge and i love it. havent used the hilifts yet so waiting to see what they are like. tempted to change to fudge on my mobile clients cos you get more for your money 100ml base tubes.x

saturday was my first FULL day after getting my starter pack, they really are lovely arent they, and the shine is quite incredible. excited to get more creative with the fudge now :) i have a highlift root tough up next week so ill be using the booster. . hope it come out fine :)) x

[rachwalton]

saturday was my first FULL day after getting my starter pack, they really are lovely arent they, and the shine is quite incredible. excited to get more creative with the fudge now :) i have a highlift root tough up next week so ill be using the booster. . hope it come out fine :)) x
hi they are lovely colours arnt they!! good coverage on grey as well with all strength catalyst. let me no how you get on with hilift cant wait to try one. going to ask at wholesalers about starter pack did you get all your catalysts in yours?:lol:

[scottydolly]

hi they are lovely colours arnt they!! good coverage on grey as well with all strength catalyst. let me no how you get on with hilift cant wait to try one. going to ask at wholesalers about starter pack did you get all your catalysts in yours?:lol:

i got mine through alan howard, very reasonable for every colour (excluding paintbox) bleach, scalp bleach, every peroxide and lots of colour chart and sundries.
i havent ill be trying a highlift on saturday though :)