When do you decide to replace your staff?

[leonnib]

i have a saturday person who when first started had a very impressive work history however since starting 3 months ago. ive seen her main points is cutting and colouring. she said she could do extenstions etc her references checked out. this was ideal for me as it meant i knew she would manage on a saturday if i needed to have a rest e.g like now.

anyway this is not the case and im really close to replacing her to someone who can manage the saturday if im not there (supervise etc).
which was the intial plan when taking her on. i have a junior girl on saturday too who i wouldnt leave to cope alone but she is great.
i need fully competant staff who can manage and my other staff are.

we had a booking for extensions thinking shed be fine she then said if i could stay 'just in case'.

maybe im being to harsh but her cv checks out for 14 years expereince. this is why i went from employing people who were quite new to the industry after initial problems. recently has been having alot of personal prblems and is affecting her work. and is really slow at everything even more then my junior.
imo i feel like things are starting to pick up and i need the correct staff to make it continue... if that makes sense.

what makes you decide that you need to replace your staff..?

[-sophisticutz-]

If a member of staff can't fulfil their specific job role and it was impinging on my business I wouldn't hesitate. However, I would discuss it first with the stylist to see if any improvements could be made. It might be a matter of confidence for this person because they are in a new salon and not incompetence. If you feel this is not being met right now you can legally extend their trial period beyond the usual 12 weeks.
Hope this works out for you.

[Blue Rose]

what makes you decide that you need to replace your staff..?

My criteria for new staff is fairly simple - do a good job & get as many clients re-booking as possible. I keep a close eye on what the re-book rate is & if it's not good enough (bearing in mind they are newbies) I have words with them to pull their socks up.

If they still don't improve, I have 'a little chat'. I've had many of those over the years, nice girls but they just don't build up their client base, which is no good to me.

It's your business, & hard though it may be sometimes, you need to sit & have a chat with her. Maybe she just needs a confidence boost. Find out what her issues are. Give her chance to pull her socks up, if she doesn't, well, you know the answer to that.

You'll be going on maternity leave before you know it. You need to get your staffing issues sorted asap.

Good luck with it x

[persianista]

I think you know if someone isnt right. I have staff problems too at the moment. Maybe there's something in the water.

[leonnib]

my gut feeling for the last few weeks is for her to go..
she brings her personal probs to work and chats away to clients about things that i dont think she should ( if that makes sense) ..ive introduced a no mobile phone policy but her phone is always ringing...

this is how im thinking im going on mat leave soon so if replacing her need to do so..

hubby thinks she may not have been honest on cv even though i checked references but some things dont add up.

someone with 14 years expereince shouldnt neeed to be babied.

anyway i have decided that i will be replacing her.. so next week will be the dreaded chat ive never had as a boss..

dont get me wrong she is good at a lot of things and nice enough girl , ive had no 'incidents or compaints' but she cant do everything she claimed and that i need within the salon which is why i took her on.

[persianista]

people lie on their cv's quite often, and you'rr right, after 14 years they should be ok.
I recently got rid of a hairdresser with 30 years exp. Her colouring was painful to watch, she was slow, and nobody rebooked with her.
I feel as though I have no staff at the moment, but for me, it's better than having rubbish staff and sneaky beggars around.
Sacking someone is a horrid experience all round. nobody enjoys it, but sometimes you have to do it. I always feel sick afterwards.

[leonnib]

yes persianista thats another problem she is really slow..
she just takes soo long..with her colour too...

something i noticed within a few weeks but she wasnt overly slow and customer was always happy with it..
so i carried on observing her..
anyway today we had a full head of highlights today and customer was booked in for extensions it took her the same amount of time to do that as it took for me to do her extensions.. and not exaggerating.

we've only been doing half head highlights since opening so this was the first time i saw her do a full head...
i think she may have had a few years expereince but not 14 years i just dont think so...

[persianista]

Full head highlights should take a slow stylist an hour and a quarter. An hour is reasonable and a speedy beggar like me is 45 mins.
Any longer than 1 1/4 hours I would say they are either inexperienced or there is another problem going on that you may be unaware of.

[leonnib]

Full head highlights should take a slow stylist an hour and a quarter. An hour is reasonable and a speedy beggar like me is 45 mins.
Any longer than 1 1/4 hours I would say they are either inexperienced or there is another problem going on that you may be unaware of.

i didnt know about how long it normally takes but when doing half head it takes her about 45 mins.. a full head took her about 2 hours to put it on and including waiting for it to take was about 3 hours.

[persianista]

2 hours for application? She is either very newly qualified or else......
Does she visit the loo a lot?

[leonnib]

2 hours for application? She is either very newly qualified or else......
Does she visit the loo a lot?

:lol: that made me laugh... visit the loo:lol:

i hadnt noticed...

and now knowing i need to replace her erggh.... its so hard to find decent staff...
when i was staff hunting alot just never turned up for interviews its like no-one wants to work..


staff is turning out to be my biggest problem..

[Blue Rose]

:lol: that made me laugh... visit the loo:lol:

i hadnt noticed...

and now knowing i need to replace her erggh.... its so hard to find decent staff...
when i was staff hunting alot just never turned up for interviews its like no-one wants to work..


staff is turning out to be my biggest problem..

Yep, think a fair few of us on here can relate to that!!

I've been advertising myself recently. Had some phonecalls, they were asked to send in their CV, most didn't :irked:. At the end of the day, you can only employ out of what applies & that's not always very good quality.

I don't envy you your 'little chat', although if it's any consolation, it does get easier. I've only had to properly sack a couple of therapists in 16 years of having staff, they were the fairly easy ones.

The others have been really nice girls, but they just don't come up to scratch & just don't build up their clientelle. Those 'chats' aren't always as easy but I'm always nice about it.....Our industry is very incestuous & so you need to be careful you don't get bad mouthed.

You need to decide which day you're going to do it & get on with it. You'll be glad you got it over & done with. Think of yourself in this - you & baby don't need the added stress!

Good luck x

[leonnib]

Yep, think a fair few of us on here can relate to that!!

I've been advertising myself recently. Had some phonecalls, they were asked to send in their CV, most didn't :irked:. At the end of the day, you can only employ out of what applies & that's not always very good quality.

I don't envy you your 'little chat', although if it's any consolation, it does get easier. I've only had to properly sack a couple of therapists in 16 years of having staff, they were the fairly easy ones.

The others have been really nice girls, but they just don't come up to scratch & just don't build up their clientelle. Those 'chats' aren't always as easy but I'm always nice about it.....Our industry is very incestuous & so you need to be careful you don't get bad mouthed.

You need to decide which day you're going to do it & get on with it. You'll be glad you got it over & done with. Think of yourself in this - you & baby don't need the added stress!

Good luck x


yes there is always the worry of getting bad mouthed she is a very local girl in the area. and cant honestly say she wouldnt do it.

[persianista]

I have had one stylist in the past develop a drink problem (swigging in the loo) and another develop a coke problem (coming out of the loo sniffing) both were good hairdressers who went rapidly downhill. Thats why I asked, not cos I wondered about her weak bladder!!!

[leonnib]

I have had one stylist in the past develop a drink problem (swigging in the loo) and another develop a coke problem (coming out of the loo sniffing) both were good hairdressers who went rapidly downhill. Thats why I asked, not cos I wondered about her weak bladder!!!

not really the toliet well not that ive noticed. but she always ask to go 'next door quickly'. we have a newsagent next door. and recently she ask about 3 times an hour. or as soon as she can leave a client ( if colour is taking etc). thats something ive noticed alot. i cant understand why or see if she is even going next door.. when she does ask im always with clients and put on the spot.

her general behaviour wasnt like this is the beginning only recent weeks (last 2/3 weeks) since she split up with partner.

[Blue Rose]

not really the toliet well not that ive noticed. but she always ask to go 'next door quickly'. we have a newsagent next door. and recently she ask about 3 times an hour. or as soon as she can leave a client ( if colour is taking etc). thats something ive noticed alot. i cant understand why or see if she is even going next door.. when she does ask im always with clients and put on the spot.

her general behaviour wasnt like this is the beginning only recent weeks (last 2/3 weeks) since she split up with partner.


Maybe she's got herself hooked on scratch cards???

[persianista]

okaaay, so whats going on next door? There is something going on.

[***juice***]

If you've introduced a no mobiles policy, is she "going next door" to use her mobile do you think?

[persianista]

more likely they sell whisky miniatures!!!!

[leonnib]

well she doesnt turn her phone off depsite numerous request have issued her a warning last week. i introduced it about 3 weeks ago because it was constantly ringing and she would answer it etc. i told them they could use mobiles in case of emergency but was allowed to give the salon number too. but since this break up its all forgotten. so i put this rule in. she uses it anyway so i dont think shes going next door to do it.

we have a cafe right next door and then the newsagents.

i dont know only been the last few weeks. its not just her slowness and what to me is exagerrating (if spelt right) her skills. shes getting so unprofessional recently. last week she even 'forgot' she had to work on saturday even though she only does saturdays.

i had no problems with her before recently. she talks to clients about this 'breakup' . and i or hubby often steps in and change the subject to something more easy going.
hubby spoke to her about it as i (in his words) am too blunt. :rolleyes:

all my staff are new and really trying now and she is the only one been there from opening the salon. now she is the one acting very strange and her work has slowed down recently.

with this new attitude its like she imo she doesnt have much respect for me.

[leonnib]

hi well im doing the deed on saturday.

i actually dont want to have her in at all..
but im guessing i cant do it by phone..

i cant actually stand her anymore.. ( i know thats bad)

she is so unreliable now cancelling at the last minute....so slow... unorganized... messy
she didnt check diary to see what client was having and almost bleached her hair instead of dying it brown...
i feel like im getting somewhere now with my salon and i just need the right team behind me...
evry saturday comes in she either hasnt slept or got drunk last night..
she has totally changed (since her partner left) while im understanding it was only a 2 month relationship and i can only be so understanding..

erghh.. i expected more from someone who is / should be a mature lady.. anyway ive had a few trial days over the last 2 weeks wit some people and have a few people lined up this week...
so im basically ready to replace her.. my junior is doing great and i was very wary of her (from experience of the younger stylist when i first started)..

do i need to give her notice i just want her out..?

[TweezerHappy]

I think you can tell her you don't want her to work her notice but think you'd still have to pay her.
Posted via Mobile Device

[leonnib]

she is still on probation..

so i wasnt sure if she gets paid notice of the month?

either way i dont want her working her notice

[TweezerHappy]

I'm not sure. Best wait for someone more knowledgeable than me.
Posted via Mobile Device

[leonnib]

lol... im sure your knowledgable tweezer...

from what i read i dont think i do..

omg and how do i tell her never fired someone :eek:

[persianista]

Hiya. If you sack her for a gross misconduct you don't have to pay or give notice. If you decide she is not for your salon you must give her a weeks money in lieu of notice and any holiday pay she has accrued. Hope that clarifies things for you. Good luck x

[Blue Rose]

Hiya. If you sack her for a gross misconduct you don't have to pay or give notice. If you decide she is not for your salon you must give her a weeks money in lieu of notice and any holiday pay she has accrued. Hope that clarifies things for you. Good luck x

Yes it's usually a weeks pay in lieu of notice unless she's monthly paid & says in her contract she or you have to give a months notice. In that case you would need to pay a months pay in lieu of notice.

Good luck with it all. You'll be glad it's over once you've done the deed.

[redsadie]

Hiya. If you sack her for a gross misconduct you don't have to pay or give notice. If you decide she is not for your salon you must give her a weeks money in lieu of notice and any holiday pay she has accrued. Hope that clarifies things for you. Good luck x

Yes it's usually a weeks pay in lieu of notice unless she's monthly paid & says in her contract she or you have to give a months notice. In that case you would need to pay a months pay in lieu of notice.

Good luck with it all. You'll be glad it's over once you've done the deed.

Do you have to do this even if she's still on probation?

[Blue Rose]

Do you have to do this even if she's still on probation?

Depends on the terms of an individual contract but if no written particulars have been given the statutory minimum is 1 week. It's my understanding that even if they don't work out after their probationary period you are still in effect sacking them. Which would imply a weeks pay in lieu of notice, plus accrued holiday which starts from the 1st date of employment.

I hasten to add though that I am not a legal expert & it's always best to get advice from ACAS or similar on these matters.

[leonnib]

thanks all.. not sure if i can put this under gross misconduct..

but here are my points:

1.she is not giving me notice she isnt coming in twice she has done it:

and ive had to cancel clients etc...

2. almost bleached clients hair even though id told her serval times what she was having done and is in diary.

3. ive now had 3 complaints from clients about her attitude/behavior..

4. despite being told health and safety rules:
1. is not sweeping up after clients and instead putting next clients in the chair with hair around it ( and ive told her a few times someone could slip)..
2. leaves scissors etc on reception desk she seems to not be able to keep her equipment on her trolley when doing hair and everything ends up on the reception desk where clients go( and i have to keep moving them)...

smoking inside the salon at the door ( i was not there but i was told today)

5. not washing hair dye out clients hair properly because she was in a rush to go home...

[Tantrum]

Hi Leonni,

i would'nt know about legalities regarding sacking this girl.

but just wanted to say my heart goes out to you, she sounds like a nut job. Smoking inside at the door, surely that would be enough grounds to get rid. As it's illegal but maybe you need a witness to stand up and say it. Almost bleaching hair? you will end up being sued by a client. She is a complete liability!

Good Luck
Pam xx

[leonnib]

i have no idea whats happened to her like she has lost all the care in the world anywhoo...

i feel like she is ruining the salons reputation ( we are getting known for our 'friendly atmosphere' and now she is damaging it and we have had compliants. ( luckily i was able to rectify it slightly as i did the hair after her and basically made up for behaviour by being extra nice)
i cant leave her alone as im scared what will happen health and safety wise and client wise...

il have a peek around the net and check what comes under misconduct if i cant do it under that il just give her a month notice... erghhhh...

[allyballybee]

Def get rid! Sounds a flaming nightmare. She's not the type that will change her ways and it'll drag you and you business down, huni. As someone already metioned, phone ACAS, find out your rights.

I see you due in Nov and this is probably a big hassle you could do without. I've have to sack two people in my 6 years of trading and was the best thing I done. You can and will replace this girl with someone much, much better.:)

[persianista]

ok, smoking inside is a gross misconduct, as is not removing tint properly (Health and safety) Put all this in writing to her as the reason you will not be employing her further. Give her 1 weeks pay in lieu of notice.

[LADY STARDUST]

ok, smoking inside is a gross misconduct, as is not removing tint properly (Health and safety) Put all this in writing to her as the reason you will not be employing her further. Give her 1 weeks pay in lieu of notice.

We were told that no-body could smoke at all in their uniform whether they are in the vicinity or not. Also turning up to work after a night on the lash is a big no-no. My last boss told us all that if she could ever smell booze on us we would be sent home immediately!
Bearing in mind what other geeks have said and i know hindsight is always a great thing, but maybe you could add a few of your own clauses to the contracts, that way everyone knows where they stand, and if they breach the rules they get a warning or whatever...xXx

[leonnib]

she knows the no smoking policy..
i cant smell booze on her but she is the one that says it.. and uses her night out before for her slowness etc..

last week she even rang to see what time she was due to start work and starts the same time every saturday.. :confused: ???

il give her a weeks notice.. i wont ask her to work it and just pay her and her holidays...

i will put it in writing also today.. thanks

imo.. there is someting else going on behind the scenes but no idea what but ive gone to my limit as her employer... its a shame as she was really good before..

[duffield1]

I sympathise hugely - our business has had experience of someone who simply failed to turn up for work one day and we never heard anything from her after that. It leaves a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

However, you need to do things properly - if you have a problem with her, you have to meet with her, discuss the problem and then set in place a way to try and resolve the problem. If she's not quick enough, why? Does she need training? Does she talk too much? You have to offer her support.

If she still doesn't comply, then give her a written warning, and if things don't improve, then you might be able to sack her, but sadly, the days of saying "Get your coat and don't come back!" are over - there are too many solicitors offering "no win, no fee" services for unfair dismissal which cost you dearly, even if the employee is a complete waste of space!

Half the issue with recruitment is that it is so difficult knowing what to ask. We spent a lot of time creating some standard job application forms a while ago, as well as interview scoring sheets, etc. to make the recruitment process easier (available from salon-docs.com The ultimate resource for essential documents for salons and spas (http://www.salon-docs.com)), as well as formal meeting reports so that you can keep good records of meetings - formal or informal - in case a dodgy employee ever does try to fleece you after you've sacked them!

[leonnib]

I sympathise hugely - our business has had experience of someone who simply failed to turn up for work one day and we never heard anything from her after that. It leaves a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

However, you need to do things properly - if you have a problem with her, you have to meet with her, discuss the problem and then set in place a way to try and resolve the problem. If she's not quick enough, why? Does she need training? Does she talk too much? You have to offer her support.

If she still doesn't comply, then give her a written warning, and if things don't improve, then you might be able to sack her, but sadly, the days of saying "Get your coat and don't come back!" are over - there are too many solicitors offering "no win, no fee" services for unfair dismissal which cost you dearly, even if the employee is a complete waste of space!

Half the issue with recruitment is that it is so difficult knowing what to ask. We spent a lot of time creating some standard job application forms a while ago, as well as interview scoring sheets, etc. to make the recruitment process easier (available from salon-docs.com The ultimate resource for essential documents for salons and spas (http://www.salon-docs.com)), as well as formal meeting reports so that you can keep good records of meetings - formal or informal - in case a dodgy employee ever does try to fleece you after you've sacked them!


i managed to speak to someone and someone can only claim unfair dismissial after 12 months of working there..
otherwise its only discrimination they can claim for and there is no discriminaion at all..
acas said she could sue if got fired for
1. demanding minimum wage..
2. gender etc..

and if reasons are good enough it can warrant immediate sacking..

its not a case of me not getting along with her..
i have listed quite a few things

[persianista]

I think your on safe ground. She is on her probationary period. The idea that staff have all the rights and the employer has none is a complete fallacy.

[leonnib]

well i have written my letter to give her 2moro.. but yet again been given a story why she cant come in 2moro...she only texted me now..

ive now got 3 clients that cant be done im so peeved.. my other one has got a hols booked.

i tried to ring but got no answer... so i emailed... about the notice with letter attached and said id be sending her a letter in the post as she isnt in 2moro again... until next week sat..

she texted back saying she doesnt understand..

i rang but no reply again so it seems she only wants me to text her...:rolleyes: i texted bk saying id be sending it out in post..

not sure what else to say.. as the letter was quite detailed...

i think she is shocked as im very easy going in the salon and i would assume didnt expect it..

i cant win .. you cant be too nice (or people take the mick) or too harsh..( or your a cow)

[kimi1101]

What a frustrating situation. I now fear this happening to me at some point...I guess having a bad staff experience is only inevitable. Its good you are trying to call her...and totally unacceptable that she is texting you now to say she can't come tomorrow. Does she have no respect for the clients that are booked in? I hope this has made you defo sure that you are doing the right thing. Good luck in it all :) you don't need this stress right now!!! xxx

[leonnib]

What a frustrating situation. I now fear this happening to me at some point...I guess having a bad staff experience is only inevitable. Its good you are trying to call her...and totally unacceptable that she is texting you now to say she can't come tomorrow. Does she have no respect for the clients that are booked in? I hope this has made you defo sure that you are doing the right thing. Good luck in it all :) you don't need this stress right now!!! xxx


yes i know ive done the right thing..
i still feel abit guilty though...

ive learned alot so im glad in a way...
i think problems are bound to happen as a employer.. its just so fustrating.....

still im hoping there is better to come

[kimi1101]

Don't feel guilty!! there are so many good stylists out there who want a job and love their job...she does not sound like she is like this. She will probably be glad that she won't need to get up too early on a saturday from now on. keep your head up and dont say anything bad about her to the clients, just found out that is what my old boss is doing about me (completely unfounded i may add) and i have clients who were always loyal to her coming to my salon because they are fed up with hearing her moan that she has to work more hours and how bad i was to leave the salon. I guess some clients may be glad to see this girl go as well though!!

[leonnib]

ergh now ive had text saying she needs a copy of her last 3 months payslips.. my payroll charge me for copies so i said id send her the last 2 ones as there weekly and she'd get her p45 or it p60 ( sorry i cant remember which one i which)..


hubby said he just pay for it if she wants them again.... ffs :mad:

i know shes asking to wind me up.. the last 3 months give me a break..

[kimi1101]

tell her you will have to charge her for this, as it costs you. Its not your fault/problem if she has lost her past 3 payslips.

Oh last 3 months, not 3 payslips!! Definitely charge her for this!!! If you have already given her this then you are not obligated to give her free copies of them!!

[leonnib]

Don't feel guilty!! there are so many good stylists out there who want a job and love their job...she does not sound like she is like this. She will probably be glad that she won't need to get up too early on a saturday from now on. keep your head up and dont say anything bad about her to the clients, just found out that is what my old boss is doing about me (completely unfounded i may add) and i have clients who were always loyal to her coming to my salon because they are fed up with hearing her moan that she has to work more hours and how bad i was to leave the salon. I guess some clients may be glad to see this girl go as well though!!


yes i suspect their are hidden somewhere out there lol..

i got someone who im thinking of giving a try..
but im so wary now..

how is your salon going?
one thing i hate is people bad mouthing i never do it so no-one can say 'leonni said this..'. i wait until i get home and let it out to my hubby...

[persianista]

Sweetie, you are a salon owner!! of course your staff (sacked) will bad mouth you!
Dont worry about it, you have to always put the best interests of your salon first. x

[kimi1101]

Yeah I just say that me and my prevoius boss don't talk any more and its a real shame and leave it at that. So far my salon is going well, 6 weeks in now and we seem to be keeping busy, hair side of things is doing well, beauty is taking a while and I'm still at the stage where she's not making enough in the salon to pay for herself but is getting busier every week so fingers crossed with xmas coming up and some special offers on we will get there. Got a great girl on placement from the local college so long term I will employ her when she qualifies...but staffing is so scary. Had a bit of a panic today cos the therapist isn't making much money but then she had a couple of walk ins which settled me...just worry I do things wrong with regards to staff!! lol. Guess practise makes perfect. Sounds like you've got it sussed though, and must have a good team to be able to leave when you are on mat leave xxx

[leonnib]

Sweetie, you are a salon owner!! of course your staff (sacked) will bad mouth you!
Dont worry about it, you have to always put the best interests of your salon first. x


yep i know she will.. im defientely expecting it..

i actually feel relieved now ..

[redsadie]

Yeah, chin up hun, she sounds like a real let down and it's not only affecting you, it's affecting your reputation as a reliable salon. I think you did the right thing, especially as this is the second week in a row that she has let you down!

I don't think she has any right to be shocked at a letter from you judging by the way she has treated you and your salon. I think there is absolutely no respect for you, texting you instead of calling shows this (amongst other things) and I think you have acted justly.

Fair play to you, I hope you find someone more reliable and soon. :hug:

There was a good post on here (http://salontweet.com/magazine.html) the other day on one way to get good reliable staff. You probably have something like this in place, but still a good read. :)

[leonnib]

Yeah I just say that me and my prevoius boss don't talk any more and its a real shame and leave it at that. So far my salon is going well, 6 weeks in now and we seem to be keeping busy, hair side of things is doing well, beauty is taking a while and I'm still at the stage where she's not making enough in the salon to pay for herself but is getting busier every week so fingers crossed with xmas coming up and some special offers on we will get there. Got a great girl on placement from the local college so long term I will employ her when she qualifies...but staffing is so scary. Had a bit of a panic today cos the therapist isn't making much money but then she had a couple of walk ins which settled me...just worry I do things wrong with regards to staff!! lol. Guess practise makes perfect. Sounds like you've got it sussed though, and must have a good team to be able to leave when you are on mat leave xxx


nope still learning... my staff probs happened at the worst time.. i had them right in the beginning too..

so i wont really have a proper mat leave i think
my new girl is starting in 2 weeks and i have abit of cover for some days. but i was planning on taking a break now.. but now i cant since she has decided to get a personality transplant at the end of my pregnancy..:rolleyes:

so ive got another 2 weeks in the salon....

by the way its the same with us one week the hair side is busier the next its the beauty......

but overally my har side is busier..

[redsadie]

Actually Fi you have a very valid point there hun. Thanks for raising it, I had thought that initially in this thread, then forgot last night as I was so tired!

Yes, of course there are two sides to every story, but this girl perhaps also has a duty to Leonni too by maybe taking her aside and having a quiet word to let her know what is going on and that she may not be on top form, not just texting to say she can't come in.

[leonnib]

Sorry....... but, has no one taken into account what is going on the girl's life? I know she has let you down greatly but my bet is she had no clue as to how much. We all have things going on in our lifes and sometimes they can out weigh the reality of life.

Being an employer is a very hard task and by rights to be fair you should have been up to speed as to how to deal with her from the outset. You should have known that on a probationary period and in fact up to one year you can dismiss without any given reason, they cannot take you to a tribunal. That is something you perhaps as an employer have to address. It is a fundamental part of business that you know the ins and outs of employment, it saves a lot of grief like what you have encountered.

Please please don't think I am picking here, because I am not, I think you have learned a very valuable lesson here and I feel sorry that you had to go through what you did. :hug:

However, there is another side to being an employer too and that is empathy, did you ever sit her down and ask her what was going on? Sometimes a simple conversation can help all round and clarify things.

I only say say this because about 8 years ago my husband had a breakdown through his work and no-one ever asked him what was wrong, he felt like a failure and left. There is always a flip side to a coin, but some never choose to look.

This is all meant with the best intention. :hug:

I have spoken to her twice now... so its not just a case of her being told to go..

sometimes a conversation can clarify things but not all the time.. and in this case it hasnt and been like this for 2 weeks before i first spoke to her..

as said she wasnt like this before so i did try to give her a chances mainly down to my hubby (he's a softie)..

just to clairfy i didnt think she would be able to take me to a tribunal at all.. someone else mentioned it on here that she could..





Originally Posted by duffield1 http://www.salongeek.com/images/element/buttons_blue/viewpost.gif (http://www.salongeek.com/biz-geek/98899-when-do-you-decide-replace-your-staff-post972878.html#post972878)
I sympathise hugely - our business has had experience of someone who simply failed to turn up for work one day and we never heard anything from her after that. It leaves a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

However, you need to do things properly - if you have a problem with her, you have to meet with her, discuss the problem and then set in place a way to try and resolve the problem. If she's not quick enough, why? Does she need training? Does she talk too much? You have to offer her support.

If she still doesn't comply, then give her a written warning, and if things don't improve, then you might be able to sack her, but sadly, the days of saying "Get your coat and don't come back!" are over - there are too many solicitors offering "no win, no fee" services for unfair dismissal which cost you dearly, even if the employee is a complete waste of space!

Half the issue with recruitment is that it is so difficult knowing what to ask. We spent a lot of time creating some standard job application forms a while ago, as well as interview scoring sheets, etc. to make the recruitment process easier (available from salon-docs.com The ultimate resource for essential documents for salons and spas (http://www.salon-docs.com/)), as well as formal meeting reports so that you can keep good records of meetings - formal or informal - in case a dodgy employee ever does try to fleece you after you've sacked them!

[leonnib]

Actually Fi you have a very valid point there hun. Thanks for raising it, I had thought that initially in this thread, then forgot last night as I was so tired!

Yes, of course there are two sides to every story, but this girl perhaps also has a duty to Leonni too by maybe taking her aside and having a quiet word to let her know what is going on and that she may not be on top form, not just texting to say she can't come in.


we have spoken about it and hubby spoke to her also..

to be fair as said she was great and good at what she was doing.. i think thats why i didnt want to her to go...

during our talks she just said her mind was elsewhere etc...
know there is more going on but i cant force her to tell me really..

as said she split up from her boyfriend and started from there... i do symphatize but to be blunt.. my salon still has to run... even when im totolly knackered i still have to go work and function not take it out on my clients...

the leaving teh colour in te clients hair and not rinsing it out properly made up mind i had to replace her

i did put in the letter to contact me if her circumstances change though..

[jes]

Hi Leonnib,

I'm behind you 100%. I think you've done, exactly, what you had to do.

My only concern is that hiring and firing should be a private affair. Please remember this is a public forum that everybody can see and your ex employee might be a little miffed if she found it one day:eek:. So, in fairness to her, I think it might be worth asking a moderator if they can delete this thread:)

[persianista]

Goodness me, you are all so NICE on here!!!
Think I'm the only hard nosed nasty b****r on here.
I booted out a young stylist this morning. been with me 3 weeks, on trial, and he rolled in late, again, with no apologie. I had done his first client already so told him not to bother.
Hey ho, a hard lesson learnt for him.

[leonnib]

Hi Leonnib,

I'm behind you 100%. I think you've done, exactly, what you had to do.

My only concern is that hiring and firing should be a private affair. Please remember this is a public forum that everybody can see and your ex employee might be a little miffed if she found it one day:eek:. So, in fairness to her, I think it might be worth asking a moderator if they can delete this thread:)


thats why i mentioned no names..
and there are a few employer - staff and even staff - employer theads on here...

but yes i do think everything worked out for the best.. :)

[leonnib]

Goodness me, you are all so NICE on here!!!
Think I'm the only hard nosed nasty b****r on here.
I booted out a young stylist this morning. been with me 3 weeks, on trial, and he rolled in late, again, with no apologie. I had done his first client already so told him not to bother.
Hey ho, a hard lesson learnt for him.


:eek:.. youve been in the industry as an employer a while... so id guess you become abit of hard nut..lol..

my aunt hated firing people when she had her business but by the end she just got used to it..

when i was 17 i got told not to come back 2moro.... i still remember i was mortified but i knew it was my fault really lol....

[kimi1101]

how are you getting on with this girl, have you heard any more?? xx

[leonnib]

no... i havent actually.

i got someone starting next week but it is hard taking on someone new when you have a bad experience of previous staff..

you become very wary.. but i like to give people a fair chance.. :)

she could be just what i need... yey!