On a kind of related subject re. karma. Karma literally just means "action" & refers to actions, not the results of those actions, rather it infers things unfolding from our actions. Also, karma is not analogous to our western understanding of 'fate', there is no judgement in karma & thus it is not some sort of cosmic justice system. Neither is there such thing as good or bad karma; these are westernisms.

On the subject of 'fate' & the idea of universal justice systems, even if you believe in such notions, it doesn't negate the need for personal involvement. That is to say we are a part of the world, not apart from it, and all of our actions are interwoven. As such, abdicating from doing anything so 'karma' will sort it out is not what's implied by such a system on any level, that's called copping-out!

This is a difficult one....if someone is stealing(which this is) then dam it they deserve what they get....by fraudulent claiming they not only take money directly out of our pockets but they create a bad stigma for those genuine individuals that are claiming legitimately.

On the other hand if I saw an individual who was realy on there ass and maybe a single parent who's old man had done a runner and left her in the lurch and she say had a cleaning job on the side that brought in a bit of extra cash to feed the family then I would turn a blind eye.

On the other side of the coin if I came across a ponce that was doing everything on the side and claiming benefits and drove around in a merc...then dam right ring ring

Maybe its not being fair being the judge on where the point comes when I believe an individual crosses the line ..but what the heck..I've never claimed a penny...I have no objections against those that do and need help but I certainly ain't prepared to let those that abuse the system rip the state ,me and everyone else off

Absolutely right!

I think a person's motive for any action they do is very important. What is ones motive for doing or saying anything? ... it is something I always ask myself when looking at other people's actions. If you do things from a bad motive then that shows the type of person you are generally ........ if your motives for a certain action are good ones then that is what matters.

Absolutely agree with Martin and Geeg. It's the intent behind the action.

I agree too....I once reported a friend to social services ... i didn't want to or enjoy it....i did so purely because there was a child in danger and i hoped it would be the first step to her getting some help....i had tried to talk to her about it but i am not in any way trained to deal with something like that.

She did actually find out it was me and i was upset at losing her as a friend but pleased that she DID get the help and went on to be a great mum.

I could never do anything just to be nasty...just cos i didn't like someone or because of a grudge....I would only ever do anything like this IF i thought it would actually help or make a difference.

To those who have voted YES...what if it was a family member....or very close friend...????

Depends for me - if it was a friend who I knew was struggling financially with thier lives and kids who was doing a job on the side for 2 days a week at the corner shop, I doubt I could to be honest as I would feel like I was taking food from her kids mouths.

Was it someone who had 2 cars and flaunted their cash to give themselves an "image" then too bloomin right I would.

My hubby was self employed since the day he left school, he has always worked and was, up until last year earning a darn good amount from it. He injured his arm 18 months ago which was swiftly followed by a stay in hospital with pneumonia and pleuracy. He is now unable to work due to the nature of his job and his arm ( he has torn the tendons fromt he elbow and the GP is reluctant to operate as he feels it won't work). We tried to claim benefits and were told he hadn't paid enough tax!!! 30 years of work and not enough tax seriously!

He has now started on the road to getting help with opening another business as we lost everything when his last business went and, as a bankrupt, he can't just open up somehwere but this time he is to employ other people and will be unable to do heavy work himself

This is something that i would really have to think about, I am a struggling single mother but i went back to work when my baby was 6 weeks old in order to look after her, i work really hard for what little money i do have yet every month no matter how hard i work i still struggle along financially.

Last week I went to the job centre to be told what i earn I could get the same by not working at all!!! in fact i would probably get more money by sitting on my bum doing nothing. (Its still not enough to live on though) The point is i enjoy the time i spend working, i get to have conversations that are not centred around peppa pig and dora.

I personally feel that if someone was just doing their best to look after their kids and provide them with a decent life then they do whatever they can.

BUT like collin said its the ones driving round in nice cars and living in nice houses that are claiming all sorts of benefits that really wind you up.

I think if the government did more to help those that actually needed the help instead of giving things to the real fraudsters then this might not actually be a problem.

hope that made sense.

Yes, exactly! You've hit the nail on the head there!

The current benefits system is totally counter-intuitive, in that a person can be better off by claiming benefits and doing no work at all, than if they had a (fairly low-paid) job.

This means that it's the system that is actively encouraging people to stay on benefits instead of going out there and seeking work, because of this frankly stupid anomaly! I mean, who in their right mind, with at least half a brain cell, would come up with anything so daft? Well, obviously someone in the civil service or the government by the looks of it!

It would make a lot more sense if people on benefits could be a little better off by doing, say, a bit of part-time work - so they'd keep on getting the majority (or perhaps all) of their benefits up to a certain threshold, and then have the benefits gradually taper away above that. Rather than it being the "all or nothing" scenario that I believe it is at the moment.

So, given that this is the case, my view is that I would definitely not report someone who was doing a relatively small amount of work on top of their benefits, where the amount of work, if declared, would be less than the amount of benefits that they would lose. I do think that society would be a lot better off if people were allowed to earn a certain amount through work without losing their benefits. e.g. a single parent could have a part-time job during school hours that would not interfere with their ability to care for their child. And it would give people a much greater sense of purpose, and also open the doors for them to moving to a better paid job in the future, where they would be loads better off and no longer need benefits.

But artificially forcing people to stay on benefits because they'd be worse off if they worked just doesn't make any sense at all to me! In fact it would just lead to a greater drain on the taxpayer in the long run, because people would be much more likely to keep on claiming benefits long-term, instead of being able to get back into work...

For me I vote no, because even though it is meant to be anonymous things always seem to come back to haunt you. I live in an area with high drugs and crime and on the rare occasion I have phoned the police who have assured me that I will remain anonymous they have always knocked on my door for further information. Now how anonymous is that? I am sorry but I will not live in fear in my own home!! the only time I would get involved from now on is if it is children or animals involved because they cannot defend themselves.

Regarding benefit fraud it is a tough one, the system totally stinks and makes it difficult for people on benefits to get back into work when they finally are in a position to do so. I am on benefits at the moment due to ill health and also I am a carer for someone who is terminally ill therefore I am not in a position to work, something that winds me up no end. I didnt spend 10 years studying to end up on benefits! I was told a while ago that I would be able to work up to 16 hours a week providing I didnt earn over £90 ish. I thought great, I'll start building up a client base and when times right come of benefits and work full time. About a month ago I went to Pathways who help disabled/sick people back into work only to discover that since my benefits had changed I could only earn £10 a week!!! but I can work up to full time hours providing its voluntary. So voluntary it is, it won't be the work I wanted to do (as in nails etc) but I guess it'll help me get back into the routine of going to work.

anne xx

Looks like you're caught up in the ludicrousness of it too then by the sound of it! I mean, do the government actually want people to be able to work and help themselves? Apparently not, by the sound of it! Stupid, stupid regulations!!!

I know Ruth, the mind boggles, seriously it depressed me no end when I found out, luckily I bounce back quickly. I had even started designing my leaflets etc and since I found out I still hav'nt done any work on them. You might remember me asking you about a website!! But to be fair I am rather inundated with my caring role at the moment its pretty full on.

Regarding working on the side I forgot to add, I can understand how some people end up doing it as it is the only way to put food on the table. Has anyone been watching the documentary series How The Other Half Lives? Not everyone is a scrounger, some people are victims of their circumstances and cannot get out, I have seen this first hand being a secondary school teacher by profession. Not everyone no matter how hard they try have the ability to become a success in life and I can understand how some people would choose to stay on benefits if they are worse off financially in employment. Personally I wouldn't dare work on the side (besides I am too honest anyway) I cannot afford to get a criminal record it would be the end of my teaching career, something I worked hard for!

anne xx

I can quite see how some people would need to work on the side! Imagine if you've been working full-time and have run up a shed load of debts on credit cards and whatnot. Then you get made unemployed, or have an accident or illness, or something like that, and end up on benefits. The Government only give you enough money for what they think you should be able to feed yourself and afford the basics. Not to pay the banks back what you owe them! And the banks can turn pretty nasty if they aren't getting their money back! So people might well turn to working "on the side" as well as claiming benefits, just to satiate the evil banks!!!

totally agree!! what the government sees as enough for you to survive is also ludicrous, would like to see them living on that amount

anne xx

No, like someone else already said, they just get "expenses" for Duck Houses, mortgages on second homes, moat cleaning, etc...

I am not sure whatI would do as it would depend on the individual's circumstances and if they had children, etc. I have known people to claim whilst doing some nails, beauty or other work but they were genuinely in need of those benefits and were just keeping their head above water.

Sometimes people get into a rut and it is sheer survival which forces them to fraudulently claim.

It is people who think the world owes them a living and have no intention whatsoever of doing an honest days work that rile me. Also people who won't work because they get so much in benefits that they would not be much more better off - they would be far better off even if it meant just breaking even because they would have better self esteem and feel a much more valued member of society. I think our benefits system holds a lot of people back and is detrimental rather than beneficial really.

I would hate to report someone with children or if they are genuinely struggling because sometimes other circumstances lead to the situation.

If I knew someone was very financially ok already and making fraudulent claims I think I would report them. If it was a friend or member of the family, I would give them the opportunity to stop and I think I would tell them I would report them otherwise. Honesty can get you into trouble sometimes but ...