Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? - Page 2

Fab Freak · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 25-03-04, 02:36 PM

Maybe someone should contact the ANT who has the ability to put this to them in the manner and constructive way Mr H Hreman did *(hint hint Mr H),,I to beleive this is very much needed I would glady assist where I could to help to bring a code of ethics into the wolrld of nails. Could BABTEC advise on this where to start I assume they have a code? or am i barking up the worng tree????

geeg · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 25-03-04, 03:03 PM

Jacqui Jefford and I wrote a code of Practice years ago for nail technicians and it was part of the package for joining the INA .... Don't know what ever happenned to it.

essexnails · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 25-03-04, 08:49 PM

Well I think you have some very good points but then some very bad and incorrect info. I have been looking into what way to start my career in nails. NVQ or Creative foundation class. Your comment that people who go to a collage only get there course paid for if they pass is very wrong. I have myself an hoping to get my course paid for by local funding and they will not only pay for my training should I go to a collage but also should I choose to train with creative. Yes people do walk away with an NVQ at the end of there course but they must complete the course. So tell me this is it possible to fail a creative foundation course ?. I have been told not,

Racism is a term that is always connected to peoples race or religion, however this is not the case and it seems there are a lot of remarks made by more that one person (yourself included) in this thread that could be considered as discrimination against all of the nail tech’s out there that are trained to NVQ standard.

If it is true that a majority of the NVQ tech’s are producing bad workmanship then surly it would be more constructive to work along side the people who write the course that to start complicating the industry even more with codes of practice that will not be universally recognised by all in the business as the NVQ isn’t by yourself and others.

This is just my very humble opinion and please don’t think that I am being argumentative

geeg · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 25-03-04, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essexnails

[font=Tempus Sans ITC][size=2][color=#ff00ff][font=Tempus Sans ITC][size=2][color=#ff00ff]So tell me this is it possible to fail a creative foundation course ?. I have been told not,

If it is true that a majority of the NVQ tech’s are producing bad workmanship then surly it would be more constructive to work along side the people who write the course that to start complicating the industry even more with codes of practice that will not be universally recognised by all in the business as the NVQ isn’t by yourself and ...

Don't know where you heard the info about Creative classes and the pass record (obviously not from anyone at Creative) but I can tell you categorically that many students do not pass the 4 day foundation course on the first go round. We try to make it possible for them to pass by giving extra help and 2nd chances BUT if the standard of the nails is below par or if they do not pass the written assessment, then they do not get issued with a certificate until they meet the standard.

We have worked tirelessly for more than 10 years along side and as part of the team that write the courses for NVQ ... next year we will have our own FULL NVQ for nails and no longer be tagged on the Beauty NVQ as an 'extra'. That is how much hard work has been put in for everyone's benefit! BUT as long as colleges pass students whether or not they meet the standards set there will be no standards that can be relied on.

This is just a fact. Many colleges do implement the NVQ well and thank goodnesss for that but there are sadly many exceptions.

Myriad · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 25-03-04, 09:26 PM

Negatory, Mr M. - MMA could be banned sooner than you think.

We have been approached re best practice by a west country council who are looking at regulation for nail salons as the lead for a cluster of councils in the West generally. They are only too aware of MMA (in fact, I think the Environmental Health Officer who rang wears nails....) and the other issues which people have raised. Watch this space!

Myriad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herman

what makes a Non standard salon?

If after 6 months of a new salon opening down the road from you, you start getting fresh faces through the door complaiming about the new salon saying things like.

"Their all oriental looking!"
"They wear masks!"
"Theres a very strong chemical smell!"
"They dont have an air filter like you do!"
"They wear gloves all the time!"
"They never preped my nail at all!"
"I asked for gel, but it looked like l&p to me!"
"It took just over half an hour!"
"They used a drill to smooth it down!"
"When I had them removed they ripped most of it off then clipped a bit and electric drilled the rest!"
"But they were only £20 and yours are £35!"

Most of the posts regarding NSS mention one or two of the above statments and jump to the conclusion that the salon must be Non standard

. In my opinion, even if all of the above statments are true they do not categorically prove that the salon is working illegally.

Near us we have a number of salons that fit many of the above criteria. We have also seen the devistation they have caused to peoples nails. But i do not consider them to be non standard, i consider them to have a very low level of workmanship. Which may i add, has been of great financial reward to our salon.

The Quality of workmanship usualy start with the Quality of the training you recieve. if you recieve your training from a council collage and the state pays for your course (eg: you have just left school, career development loan, or unemployed) you are trainer usualy by a beauty therapist with a teaching qualification who's every day life is to teach what she knows on paper, and probobly does not apply enhancments for a living. also the state will only pay the collage if the trainee PASSES the course

....So they get very little practical training and are garanteed to pass and then cause havoc in the nail world legaly.

There are only two reasons i can think of that makes a salon illegal:

1, They operate with no insurance
2, They have no formal training / qualification

As you may have noticed i have not used the "Methyl Methacrylate" word yet!

So... here goes... Sadly the use of MMa for nail enhancments has not yet been made illegal in the UK and i believe this will be the case for many years to come. If the salon down the road is using MMa what can you do about it when its not illegal?

What if the badly trained salon down the road says " hell yer i use MMa, iam qualified and have insurance to prove it" what can you do

She's done her training at collage where she passed before she started!
She uses MMa which is not illegal and she has got insurance.(i have never seen an insurance policy for nails techs that states you should not use MMa)

She is working within the law! maybe not what we call "standard" but she is working legally.

So whats my point......dont jump to the conclusion that bad workmanship means their a NSS, and if you could prove they are using MMa theres not much you can do, other than educate your new found customers.

I run two buisnesses of which one has a "CODE OF PRACTICE" heres how it works!........ you pay an anual fee and sign to say that you abied by the code. Your anual fee is used to randomly check without warning that the members are following the code. These checks could be anything from chemical analysis of the products you use, to ensuring you are registerer with the data protection agency. if you fail the random checks you lose the use of the "CODE OF PRACTICE" logo. This Logo is used in all your advertising to reasure your clients of your compitence and commitment to better standards.

What do you think...... is it feasible for the nail industry?

If you managed to read this at the bottom thanks for your patience.

The ramblings of Mr H Munster

beautifulnails03 · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 26-03-04, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essexnails

Well I think you have some very good points but then some very bad and incorrect info. I have been looking into what way to start my career in nails. NVQ or Creative foundation class. Your comment that people who go to a collage only get there course paid for if they pass is very wrong. I have myself an hoping to get my course paid for by local funding and they will not only pay for my training should I go to a collage but also should I choose to train with creative. Yes people do walk away with an NVQ at the end of there course but they must complete the course. So tell me this is it possible to fail a creative foundation course ?. I have been told not,

Racism is a term that is always connected to peoples race or religion, however this is not the case and it seems there are a lot of remarks made by more that one person (yourself included) in this thread that could be considered as discrimination against all of the nail tech’s out there that are trained to NVQ standard.

If it is true that a majority of the NVQ tech’s are producing bad workmanship then surly it would be more constructive to work along side the people who write the course that to start complicating the industry even more with codes of practice that will not be universally recognised by all in the business as the NVQ isn’t by yourself and others.

This is just my very humble opinion and please don’t think that I am being argumentative

Okay, here's my 2 pennies worth!

I currently go to college and I see a class every week that is being taught in Beauty NVQ. They are meant to be in School, but are badly behaved and have therefore been sent to college instead of doing their GCSE's, so that they don't drop out of education all together!

Although I can see this as been a good idea, they don't have to pay, and they are barely been taught anything. The teacher sits there whilst the do nails on each other. They use a cheap product, and are not been taught correctly. This concerns me, as they may then go out and damage client's nails without even realising what they are doing is wrong.

I trained with Creative and I didn't fail. That is because they provide amazing training, they go through everything in depth and make everything easy to understand. I know of a person whose nails were not up to the standard she had hoped, which she was quite upset about. However, Samuel was one of the people who stuck by her, gave her confidence, and she even got a one-to-one. She has now passed the course, and her confidence is so much better.

Creative would not pass technicians who aren't sculpting good nails, they would just train them until they are at the right standard. That way they ensure that their product is being used correctly by high standard technicians. And they follow up the training once technicians have passed to ensure the standard is still high and we know all about new products and the latest designs etc. (Anybody correct me if I am wrong but this is what I believe to be true.)

Also we were taught to if neccessary wear masks to prevent dust inhilation, and goggles to protect our eyes, especially if you wear contact lenses. I myself wear gloves if I am dealing with product remover to protect my own nails.

I don't think you were saying anything bad about the above Herman, I just wanted to let you all know what I think. And I truly think that masks etc are their to protect the technician. It worries me to think that Clients would then think I am running a NSS.

Like I say, these are my opinions and if I have offended anybody then I am sorry and let me know.

Victoria x

Herman · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 26-03-04, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shropshiredawn

i have heard from a friend of mine that is doing a vtct in nail enhancements, i offered to be a model, on asking what date did she want me back for an infill, she looked blank and said " oh we dont have to do that"

she also said that they were being SHOWN how to do gel/fibreglass/silk, they have no gel products but someone from a salon will go in and show them how its done, NO! she showed them how to do l&p.
will she be doing gel/fg? NO !
infills? NO!
does she know how to do a soak off? NO!
will she get a vtct in l&p/gel and fg, YES! but her assesments will be p&w/french tip/ tip & overlay, in l&p !
i asked her to ask the question to the tutor about this and the tutors reply was " well as long as we tell you how to do it thats all you need to know, no one will fail so whats your problem" while i am sure NOT all colleges are like this, the whole thing seems a sham, all i can say is thank god for creative training, because now i know i made the right decision NOT to go back to college and i can see now in comparison just how much i have learnt, these girls will be able to do clients with hardly any knowledge at all, i dont know who to feel sorry for the clients or the techs.

Found the above quote on a different thread
__________________

Fab Freak · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 26-03-04, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essexnails

If it is true that a majority of the NVQ tech’s are producing bad workmanship then surly it would be more constructive to work along side the people who write the course that to start complicating the industry even more with codes of practice that will not be universally recognised by all in the business as the NVQ isn’t by yourself and others.

This is just my very humble opinion and please don’t think that I am being argumentative

I sorry Essex Nails But i disagree it is important for professionals to have a code of ethics to work to and or a Code of Practice that covers professionalism, hygiene, and good relations with other personnel etc. with a Code of Ethics covers privacy, maintaining a clients dignity, and abiding to moral and social standards. The Federation of Holistic Therapists own Code of Practice was published on 2nd July 1962 that existed for 40 years - long before the NVQ was around so in my opinion it is just as important that a Nail Technician has a guide to help them work to whether you did the NVQ, VCTC or any othet manufacturers course.

I have been to more FE courses over the years then I care to remember and yes quality of tution standards varies greatly - and I doubt very much if this will change overnight - ONLY if students feel so strongly about their course to do something about it and I don't beleive if they passsed knowing the standard was to low they would complain and say sorry can you cancel my pass i'd rather resit or do the course again - that's just not going to happen.

With regards to colleges receiving monies for pass rates on clients - this is very much TRUE, I know of two senior tutors at state colleges and this is the case (either in beauty or any other course) and i would be interested to know why think this might not be the case?

I realy hope you find a course that suits you and if you come across what you feel are low standards of education you will be prepared to do something at the time officially of course...

cuticles · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 26-03-04, 11:14 AM

As an NVQ assessor (not in beauty) can I add that the ethos of NVQ is ASSESSMENT. This differs from old style exams which failed you on the day if you were having a bad day.

Assessment is having the opportunity to demonstrate in different ways (with Creative: written, practical and teacher assessment), if you are up to scratch, fantastic you pass straight away. If you are not, some extra time and work is needed in order BY YOU to prove competence. Remember, we can't all make fantastic white sauce the first time around but it doesn't make us bad cooks, it proves to us that we need more practice!

The whole concept of assessment is that it is not perfect, but which system is - ask yourself, is it right that just because you need a hour or two of extra work, just because you didn't understand everything the first time: you have to re-do the whole course as you would do in old style exams?

My opinion is that assessments are great, you have to demonstrate that you CAN DO, you cannot 'pass' if you can't do! Old style exams rely on 40% ish being the pass mark In a very practical subject eg nails, surely we have to demonstate full competence.

I notice I have probably gone off thread entirely who which I apologise!

Regards
Cathy

chocolate · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 26-03-04, 10:46 PM

The ANT are about to release their new code of practice, so lets wait and see!

As most of you know, i love my NVQ work, but i have to say, and dont be shocked, some techs who have it are ****! It depends on the trainer / assessor more than anything, which is quite a worry really???????????!!!!!!!!!

Lellipop · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 26-03-04, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocolate

The ANT are about to release their new code of practice, so lets wait and see!

As most of you know, i love my NVQ work, but i have to say, and dont be shocked, some techs who have it are ****! It depends on the trainer / assessor more than anything, which is quite a worry really???????????!!!!!!!!!

I also have to agree here. I have 3 vtcts in Manicure, Advanced Nails, and Nail art.
I have to say that my tutors were spot on, Many on my courses didnt pass.
There was strict uniform code, No Jewellery,and minium make up worn.
We at to pass the health and safety exam, Do lots of written assignments, do full sets in all systems and infills every 2 weeks.
We also ran the class as a salon , With a manager picked each week. We had to fill in a treatment cards for each client Etc............
I was very well trained, But do feel that there should be strict guidelines for some colleges and courses. Because if not we can be tarred with the same brush,
Which in my opinion isnt fair.

chocolate · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 26-03-04, 11:15 PM

My other concern is that even if you have an NVQ, that means you did everything perfect in your assessments(?) but do you keep it up? I "surprised" or should i say shocked a salon recently by just turning up. Coffee cups, necklace, dirty towels, pumps not labelled, trainers, large earings, lid not on nail varnish bottle, do i need to continue???????????????????????

naturalnails · **Re: Bad Workmanship or NSS????????? -** 27-03-04, 09:37 AM

Rachel, I wholeheartedly agree. I like to do some training every year and last year I thought about doing the NVQ at my local college rather than travelling a larger distance to a SAC. We are always being told that an NVQ is an NVQ - it would satisfy the powers that be that I was of a standard if and when they brought in country wide licensing.

I went to the first day as a taster and met with the tutor - she did not use correct terminology - she kept talking about acrylic nails - and asked me to do a nail on her - I took out my tip box after prep and she said I did not do acrylic nails - what she meant was that I needed to do sculptured nails LOL. Tip and overlays to her were not acrylic nails LOL.

This was enough for me and I decided although the council might think I was of a standard because I had an NVQ I would not so I decided to do my CND Masters instead.

The only benefit to doing my NVQ instead of my Masters is that my insurance through ANT would have been cheaper LOL.

I look forward to seeing how this one pans out.