Hi Geeks

I meant to post a few questions about Primers on the SSW Science weekend but I forgot in the end........probably got too carried away with the 'oil drying enamel' debate!! LOL.
Anyway another thread in the forum brought it all back and I feel it is time for me to urgently brush up on the subject. Any knowledge you could add would be gratefully received.

PRIMER
the only thing I think I know is that it converts the bonding acrylic from being a hydrogen to a covalent bond (or maybe the other way around?). Apart from that I know nothing and I dont really even understand what I just wrote.......covalent bond???

What is Primer? How does it work? what is the difference between acid free and normal primer? Is it super toxic? Why does the nail plate go chalky after application? Why sometimes does it not go chalky?

As usual, feel free to get technical...or not

jax.xx

ps. I'm sure my Creative notes would help me but they are currently unobtainable (bottom of very messy hall cupboard which I cant face tidying)

http://www.creativenaildesign.com/To...ree-Primer.pdf

hth's a bit

primers are wetting agents....as in they make a liquid more conpatable with a solid.....like priming newly plastered walls before painting etc.....they act as an anchor between the product and the natural nail....again like plastered walls.....primer....paint....stops the paint peeling.
acid based contains methacrylic acid.......non acid primers do have an acid but methacrylic acid..the acid it conatins is less corrosive.
primers create hydrogen bonds which improves adhesion between the product and natural nail...these are only temporary...like the hydrogen bonds we have in hair that can be temporarily changed.
acid based primers are more corrosive and should not get on any surrounding skin and you shouldnt put product over primer that hasnt fully dried...this can lead to lots of problems too..........if used properly....they are perfectly ok......
hope i have got most of the info right lol

Thanks Joanne.

Something else I am wondering is this;
If a system is 'primerless' like Creative Retention plus and EZ Flow High Definition, that would indicate that the system already has a hydrogen bond. So why would applying primer as is sometimes advised be any help at all? Can you make a hydrogen bond stronger by adding primer?

Retention+ forms a covalent bond, which is stronger than a hydrogen bond.

I don't have time to look for the link now as I'm off to work in a sec, but Cathie! did a thread about covalent bond vs hydrogen bond a while back.

hth's

Thanks Sandi, I'll have a look for it. I thought I might have got my bonds around the wrong way!

Q: Bonds

Bond...James....how does it break?

hth's

I have read everything I can on here and google about Primer but there are a couple of things I still cant get my head round.

If a primer 'upgrades' the bond between Acrylic and the Natural Nail, I presume this would only be for Hydrogen bonding systems like CND Radical. I was taught and have since had this re-inforced that although it is not necessary to use primer on primerless systems (which use a covalent bond) it is a fail safe and is a reasonable thing to do. Rightly or wrongly I currently use a primer with my primerless system.

BUT....giving this a bit more thought. If you are using primer on Ret+ for example or EZFlow HD then is using the primer not a waste of time? Because this system already has a Covalent bond so you cannot upgrade the bond above that and I cant imagine that the primer could make the covalent bond stronger than it already is??? I am starting to think the only benefit I am getting to using primer is that it contains a bit of alcohol which would further dehydrate the nail plate before I apply my acrylic. Apart from that is it not useless?

If this is true I am taking an unnecessary risk using it.

Any thoughts?

In the Nail Olympia show last year, Ketan Patel, said that it was not a good idea to use primer with Retention+, if you wanted a stronger bind to the natural nail then you should use a PREP BUSTER insted...

By "Prep buster" do you mean scrubfresh or the likes?

It's actually Prep Boosters(!) and generally (in CND terms) we're talking about Nail Fresh as an extra level of dehydration - don't forget to re-scrubfresh afterwards though to get those pathogen fighters back.....

Yes just like Vetty says BOOSTER, sorry for my bad english

Hey, it's better than my Danish!!!!! We knew what you meant and that's the main thing

Strange thing is the actual CND tech sheet for the AFP states it can be used with both Rad and Ret+ ... go figure.

Bonds (Izzi put your Brass Band away!).

Acid primers create a hydrogen bond between the nail plate and the primer and a covalent bond between the primer and the product.

Non-acid primers create a covalent bond between both parties.

Primer can help the bond of a primerless system if your prep isn't perfect, also primerless system require that you press the product into the nail to create the covalent bond between the nail plate and the product as there is nothing in between to help create the bond.

When using acid primer....use as little as possible, always drain the brush of product before applying to the natural nail only.

Never hold your primer bottle the same way you would hold a bottle when applying polish, keep the bottle right out of the way....I always put it away to the right of my working area with the lid (child proof) back on.

Acid primer is very safe when used in well trained hands.