Well if you read my post you would logically see the context it was in.

Yes we will be paying min wage, what choice do we have?
Where does all the money for wages you are expecting come from?
Businesses have lot's of overheads you probably don't realise but they all add up.
Your hourly rate on a small shop just to be open is about £10 an hour, you might only get a 3 people on the sunbed and an eyebrow wax in that time.
So you have turned over what, £2x3 = £6 + £6 eyebrow wax all of £12 pounds.
Lets say rent is £10k a year so that would make (on a 40 hour week) at least £4.80 you need to recover, not to mention TAX, insurance, energy bills.

So we have £12 turnover take away £4.80 (or more) = £7.20
Lets say you pay yourself (the owner min wage) = £5.35
Leaves you with = £1.85 to cover all the TAX, insurance, energy bills, equipment, stock, consumables, your own nat ins contributions, your mortageg, your food, your kids clothes, your petrol etc etc
Your business is you personal survival... you just do not have the amount of spare cash you obviously think is available to spend on staff overheads.

But your expecting every employer, just because there an employer to pay more? while they and there family suffer - AND then call them GREEDY!!!
That makes me sick.

You have no idea how hard it is for a small salon just to break even never mind a profit.

If you work for a cracking wage, then bully for you.
There's a lot of people who don't as proved on the job centre website who would be devastated for you to under value there earnings so badly with insensitive comments like "I wouldn't get out of bed for it"

When we do employee more staff, the first new member I will be basically handing over MY wage to them from working in a gym!!! and I will only be on min wage as said.
This is how difficult and challenging business is. I drive a 12 year old Vauxhall and have no money to fix my boiler. I have not been on holiday for years... but I am somehow greedy!!!
OK cheers, thats really nice of you.

SOME people need to. They do it to get a foot in the industry, it doesn't make them NO GOOD as you are trying to lable them as.
They are worthy people no matter what they earn and don't deserve to be made out to be no good at what they do.

It's nothin to do with employers being GREEDY.
It is soooo obviously to do with the ample labour pool of qualified people willing to work for the wage they get purely because they want to.

How do you think the building industry feels with all the polish buiding teams under cutting them, it drives down prices... soon maybe being a builder might not mean you have a well paid job.

It's business, not a dream world.
As I see it, there will be a natural progression starting from the bottom.
Your staff generate income = your business makes more money = you can afford to pay your staff more money.
Then you want to keep them = you give them insentives to stay.
They take more responsibility like a salon manager = they earn more for doing more and free up your time to expand your business.

It's basic managment and basic business - and to be frank, it's realistic and not a pipe dream that you can pay your staff £20k a year and you be on £20k a year as well for a small business ESPECIALLY a salon which operate on very small profit margins.

The original poster have a valied point, her employer was doing really well and it wasn't reflected.
I agree'd this was a problem and was wrong.
But I also very clearly explained why industries with lot's of choice of ppl willing to work for less and battle for the same jobs (AKA supply and demand) drives down wages... the same as cheap beans drives down the price of beans.

Admit it... you were wrong to slag me off as an employer tarring me with the same brush as a big corperation with loads of money.
You didn't see the bigger picture of what a challeging life running a small business is with such low profit margins.
And you were wrong to de-value people and there skills because of there wage. That hurts peoples feelings.


You didn't answer my question...
If you ran a salon, and could only afford to pay minimum wage what would you do?
Would you carry on working double the hours yourself?

minimum wage is an appalling amount, if your girlfriend worked for minumum wage for 3 years or whatever then more fool her. Like the others have said don't expect to get an experianced therapist who is good at her job to stay with your business for long.

and your point is what exactly?
point out the bit where I said that I would get an experianced therapist who is good at her job to stay with your business for long (on min wage as you are implying I said).

Oh yes... you must have missed the following:

FACT - 1.9 million people are on min wage, by your comments more fool them eh?

out of the 1.9 million people working on minimum wage, how many of them do you think enjoy waking up each day and working for peanuts? how many of them wouldn't leave thier company in an instant if they got a better offer?
If you are not looking for somebody who has experiance and/or are good at thier job then i do apologise, i just assumed that you wanted your business to be successful. my mistake.

why are you just being so awkward... no matter how well I put myself you just seem to pick a problem?

what part of this explanation are you struggling with? it really is very simple:
What part of that did you gleam that I didn't want my business to be successful?

Also... you are inventing things again... I didn't say all of the 1.9 million were happy with there money - the qty was to display to you just how many people are working on min wage.
Many like me for a career change and better quality of life.
THAT many people... more fool them? - oh really LOL come on get real.

Many of that 1.9 will be the same as every other new starter in any other industry and expect them to want to earn more but be happy with there career choice.
Training and experiance and getting a foot in the door or a break into the industry is what most people are looking for.
Pay increases with experiance, time with the company and promotions.
It's nothing unusual.

Your better offer question... AGAIN you are just totally selective reading everything I type!!! So once again I will quote:
This is getting silly.

I've just started a new job at a spa near to where I live, am on £5.65 an hour but only left college 5 months ago. I also get full use off all the facilites (swimming pool etc) 10% commission on products sold. And if I do treatments to the value of £800 or over a month I also get 10% of that too. Its quite good for me considering I was only on £4.60 at my old garden centre job!!!Lol

I have just got back from work so will answer some of your points and ask a few.You mention your family suffering,how do you think the therapist and his/her therapist suffer with a min wage coming into the house?

You talk about millions of people who settle for minimum wage and that they would be devastated that I undervalue their earnings.I would actually think they would 100% agree with what I have said.

Minimum wage is not acceptable in the instance that you rely so much on your staff,i.e us therapists to keep you in business.

As for your question regarding paying my therapists if I could only afford a minimum wage when I get a salon.

Well this is how I would do things.First I would not be employing any staff at all,I would have to be a one man band,then when I have a good client base I would look at employing 1 member of staff,this way I could and would pay her what she actually deserves.

I want a good,loyal therapist,I dont want her feeling disgruntled about her wages and moaning to clients and friends about the crappy wage she/he gets.There will be incentives for her as well.I.e commission on goods she sells and treatments.

I suggest Jom that we therapists are speaking from experience.You havn't long been a salon owner or employer,why not listen to us,stop taking everything so personally and maybe actually you may learn something.

I along with many other of the therapists who have replied to you have more experience than you or your girlfriend in this industry(please dont take personally)Maybe we are telling you as it is. Given that your girlfriend worked for 3 years and has a level 3 as I do,she knows exactly what we are all saying.Its a hard slog at college,and what for a minimum wage.I dont think so.

You will have to be on a minimum wage when you start your gym instructor cause because you are new to the job and inexperienced,we are not so why should we have to settle for crappy wages?.

Yes I have to agree that this is the ideal thing to do.
As it is there's only me in this business so there's only me to worry about, when things are really busy at Christmas and in the summer I think OMG I'm loaded.
Then I think... wait for January and February, put money away for the rainy days.
The point I made earlier was that when you get to a certain stage and have done X amount of training you won't go to a salon and work for a minimum wage if you can help it.
You will remain a one man band unless you decide to buy a salon.
I would rather work all the hours God sends at the moment to make this work for me.
Over Christmas I felt exhausted, but to know that business was going so well kept me going.

well all i can say is good luck jom, you are gunna need it!

Yes people want to work in salons how many get told that they will be working on minimum wage on their first day at college ?

Hardly any therapists that i trained with are still working in the industry as the money is so crap.

I used to work my ass off doing hours of massage for £4.50ph & the client paid £40.00 i used to resent getting paid peanuts whilst the salon was raking it in. Then when i handed my notice in to go to a spa paying £5.90 an hour the manager said it wasn't all about the money !! It is when you've got a £200 car loan & £30 a month to chiropractor because you've got back pains from doing endless massage!!

My boyfriend used to work as a fitness instructor on the same money as me & he doesn't see beauty as a hard job, i always say once you've done an 8 hour shift of treatments then you will know what its really like, maybe you could train to do beauty & see if you think minimum wage is adequate ?

And this is what we are doing? so why are we in the wrong.
You wouldn't not employ, I don't believe you... the hours you have to work you don't don't understand you can not do them for ever.
No, you absolutly WRONG.
I have a friend who cycled for England, fully qualified and very experianced... he still only pulls min wage (on a 40 hours week self employed) working for a big gym chain... you're still jumping to conclusions.
The same as we do... now do you see the point?
Just because we are employers, doesn't make us rich.
As a self employed person do you realise that we don't even HAVE a min wage?
see post above yours - it's not all about JUST money for some people.

It's still down to supply and demand... this is not a high earning profession and it's not a high profit margin type of business.
You looking at it through rose tinted glasses.
You pay what you can, if you can not pay anymore... then you can not pay anymore... you can not give what you do not have.

another sly dig eh?
well done.

now that would be a problem, they colleges should show the student the jobs papers and real advets to show them the going rate.
My local college is really good, the students know and are prepared to work up the ladder.
yep, agree same with nursing IMHO - it's a problem.
whats the solution though? small salon are rarely greedy IMO, they just don't all make enough money to pay wages equivilant to office work and such like, my salon certainly doesn't.
but one day it will, as I said it's all about having a plan, yearly performance reveiws and investing in people, staff development will set us apart from the one track minded salons where money is the only insentive, proper career progression is the way forward, if we grow they grow with us.
ah, at this point we are not reading from the same paper, you have made the same mistake as others who seem to apply blame to the emploeer without a thoiught for the bigger picture.
Spa's can afford to pay more... small business it's not so easy.
Spare cash only comes with your business growinng, it doesn't just appear it has to come from somewhere.

In my case... my wage will simply being handed over to my employee... I can not give any more as I don't have it to give.

Don't forget, the business owners don't have min wage o help them.
If you work out the hours put in it probably doesn't even meet min wage.
But with new business you have to go the extra mile.

Just because we are owners doesn't make us better off.
It's not as easy as you think.

Good luck Jom,hope your business grows and grows.Cant say anymore.

thankyou BABSann.

sorry about what happened to your thread katexx, my only point was about the big pool of labour supply and demands having a affect on wages!!! LOL
went off on a huge tangent, sorry for my part