Hi, PMC is excellent, great machine and training. In our Borough you have to have a tattooing licence, but there is one coming out for micropigmentation.

I would wait at least 24 hours before putting your contacts back in if having eyeliner done. just to let the eyes settle down, and any swelling to subside. But would not affect you for eyebrows or lips. Like you say it does scab over, just looks like a thick line of colour, rather than an unsightly scab. This however does flake off, bit like mascara does when you go a bit OTT with it, and could get behind your lenses, so it might be worth waiting till all scabbing has gone (mine took about 5 days). You must let the scab come off naturally as you are right in saying that if you don't it will pull the pigment out.

Have pm'd you with prices.

Thank for your comments Jnail, it is a fab treatment, so nice not having to faff about with my eyeliner anymore (although I did go to put some on about 6 days after treatment!). I am very thorough in all that I do, really research my subject. Have you had top ups since '87 or are you lucky and the colour stayed true. Do you protect them from the sun?

And ......... International Geek Day, now there's a thought - GMG?!

Hi to all geeks
I'm thinking of semi-permanent make-up/micropigmentation course.
can any of you give me a company name that you trained with or that you recommend to me.
I would like to train with some real good semi-perm make-up geeks if any.
I've trained with Creative and half way through my Grand master geek..looking for new adventure for my studio in warks....
many thanks
jenny
jnnymosley@aol.com

will there be any swelling, if so for how long?
does it hurt? x

do you still do this then sas??

wow i wished i lived nearer you sassy, id be your guinea pig

is it ok for scensitive skn?
can you apply a diferent makeup over it if you descide youve had enogh of the colour for a night out etc?

What about if you have any scar tissue (as I do) in your brow? I found in the past that the SPM treatment I had did not take (but things have maybe moved on since then.

I also found my lips came out a little patchy and faded unevenly and I was right back to using my own lip liner again (again might have been the older type system). Also it hurt so maybe the numbing effect is better nowadays.

You are seriously tempting me Sassy to have another go.

One more ... can you draw your own lip line on before treatment ... I do my own better than anyone and I know what I want.

Cor blimey, it's really strange when a thread is resurrected a year later!! Which menas I've been doing it for a year now - can't believe it!

I'll try and answer all your Qs.

I did my training with PMC - a branch of LCN and distributed by BCI in Hurstpierpoint, just south of Gatwick. The course is 5 days and INTENSIVE is an understatment, I have never worked so hard or learned so much in such a short space of time, and they ONLY do one to one training which IMO is essential, and you only work on real models. There is a strong emphasis on colour theory which is so important and they cover lip liner, eye liner and eyebrows. I have done another days training which included full lip colour, lip enhancement and eyeline colour enhancement. I didn't bother to look elsewhere as I knew how good LCN were at training and how good their customer service was so I had a strong sense of trust in their company ethics.

Swelling varies from perdon to person, but the PMC machine I have has a patented Kryoliner which cools the area to about 9 degrees, swelling and bruising is virtually nil, the worst it looks like for eyeliner for example is like you have had a good cry and it settles down within 24 hours.

I've never tried to use a different colour - if you feel you like to regularly change your colour then it probably isn't the treatment for you. There is a huge list of contraindications, but you do a skin patch test of the pigments to check for any sensitivity / reactions to them. Your dealing with a delicate part of the face so the last thing you would want is an allregic reaction. However if you bruise VERY easily then this is a contra!

I'm not sure about the scar tissue Geeg, as I've not come across any yet and I don't have my manual at home - Jennykins maybe able to help as she is more experienced than me. If your lips were patchy then suffice it to say that it was probably a poor treatment, sounds like they didnt insert it deep enough into the dermis either. I offer an initial treatment, with a top up 6-8 weeks later to make sure it is a totally even placement, or to go slightly darker if required ( I tend to err on the side of cuaution if a client isn't completely sure on what colour they would like it to end up as.)

The eyebrows and lip liner is drawn on first so it's just like colouring in really. Getting the initial lip line right, or the eyebrow shape even is what can take the time to start with, but you know then that before you start tattoing that the client is in full agreement. I get the client to do it cos like you say they probably can do it better than anyone and know exactly what shape THEY like. I will advise if I think it could be improved, but at the end of the day it is their face so it's their choice. Except for the lady who wanted BLACK eyebrows, the black pigments are very blue based and it would have looked HORRENDOUS. It took me half and hour to persuade to have a very dark brown, but I would have refused to do black, after all it's my reputation on the line as well!

And finally does it hurt? Well it varies from person to person as everyone's pain threshold can be so different, but it is a form of tattoo, although the needle does not go as deep. I would not say it is painful, it's a scratchy feeling which may be uncomfortable in places - the inner side of the eye, and the cupid's bow of the lip are particularly sensitive. I'm having my lips done at half term so I'll let you know how it goes! When I had my eyeliner done the feeling was like having a small bit of grit in my eye, it's the only way I could describe it!

Put it this way I am the biggest woos (sp?) where needles are concerned and I'm going back for more! The numbing is worse though Geeg, very limited these days and whatever you use has to be agreed by Environmental Health - at least it does in Fareham.

I've got it at half price at the mo as it's been a bit slow for the past few months!

In theory you should be able to go over an area of scar tissue with pigment, it may not be successful for everyone though. Also when you return for your follow up treatment if it hasn't taken then the pigment should be re-applied (a third visit may be neccesary)

I agree with Sassy about the lip liner, the reason your lip liner didn't take evenly was probably due to poor placement of pigment. The skin has to be stretched quite a lot and the pigment must be worked into the skin very slowly....also having a steady hand is essential!

It is usually best to let the client apply their own pencil line because, as has been mentioned, they can usually do it better themselves....I tend to do this and then offer a little guidance if the line isn't quite perfect -- it is a lot better to spend the time ensuring the pencil line is correct before you start!

I have been specialising in Permanent Make Up for nearly 6 years and would definitely recommend you taking a course to enable you to offer this treatment!! It is absolutely fantastic!!

If you have any questions about this subject I would be more than happy to answer them for you, just send me a pm or email me at info@insteadofmakeup.com

chat to you soon!!

How much is it Sassy, might give you a call if ever I'm down that way. xx

Take a look at my website, I have it on a very special offer at the moment to try and boost my client base, it's been very slow the past few months.

Wow, that's cool. Like the before and after pic too. Good luck with it - might have to try and gt down there for a treatment, really fancy permanant eyeliner - look S**t without it but sometimes just want to go out without having to think about it. Good luck with it anyway hun. xx