Charging Deposits

[Verve Designs]

Ello,

My turn to ask for some advice this time!

What do you think (generally) about asking for deposits?

This is in regards to the salon (where we do hair replacements and hair extensions among other things) as well as my other business.

On both sides we've found an increasing number of people who just generally swing the lead (or more harshly- just plain time wasters) - so for each business have had to introduce a non-refundable (but knocked off the final bill) deposit.

Whats annoying is the time spent on those people (either in consultations and buying in products on the hair side, and doing logo drafts etc. on the other side) is eating into the time you could be spending on genuine clients!

I'm hating having to do it...because to me, by inference, you're starting off assuming everone is the same! It's getting to the point where we have 1 out of every 10 hair extension client not turning up (and the appt cant be filled) and at least 3 out of every 10 other sort of client (i'm being careful not to ramble on about non-beauty business) disappears (in some cases still using our work!).

Do you find people are offended by being asked for a deposit? Does it impact on the amount of enquries you have? or does it have a greater impact in terms of efficiency and sorting the wheat from the chaff?.....

 

[redsadie]

Hi Carl

I only ask for a deposit if I need to buy something specific in for that particular client. That said I only do nails, waxing and tanning, so it's mainly if they want a particular nail colour or acrylic colour.

In your line of business, I would be inclined to take a non-refundable deposit, especially in the hair extension/replacements as invariable, unless you have an awful lot of stock (I know it's expensive to buy in I rented in a hairdressers) then you may lose out if that client just doesn't turn up. Other than that, if you have a card machine, ask the client to leave their cc details (long number, end date and security no. - in the case of Solo/Delta, you need the start date too) and explain that if they do not give at least 48 hours notice of cancellation, then the deposit £xx amount will be charged to their card. This is what we do in the hotel I am a receptionist in. If they don't show, or cancel late, then the card gets charged. They are made fully aware at the time of reservation and also a confirmation is sent out to them stating this also.

I know it seems like a lot of work, but it isn't when you consider how much you are losing by them not turning up and you have already bought in the hair etc.

As for the 'other' business, I liked it that you didn't charge a deposit. That said, I wouldn't have minded if you had charged then knocked it off the end price. If you are not happy with doing this (I'm pretty sure most others do it) then perhaps when you send through the proofs for clients to look at, you could have some sort of water mark through them. I have to say, I was a little suprised that this wasn't the case whan you sent through mine, and I had exactly the same thoughts. You do all this work, what's to stop people from saying ';Thanks, but I don't really think I'll go ahead just yet' then use you work anyway!?

Looking forward to seeing my revisions :green:

HTH's

Sarah

 

[Verve Designs]

Hi,

Cheers for that.

I guess we're asking for a show of commitment I suppose.

Well the hair extension side deposits are here to stay- its really more the fact that we're rather....exclusive (Cheshire set dontcha' know) and someone not turning up is denying someone else that appt. So everyone loses out.

And If I start adding watermarks on the other side, its another hours work to do it and it takes away the point of my showing off drafts!!

Incidentally I ought to point out that im not complaining about anyone specific on here who im working with at the moment! ...its just a trend recently in the last few months really. Especially as I checked a few websites (taps nose) to find my stuff on there! It's sort of heartbreaking really! ...not to be too dramatic!

 

[Ruth Mills]

I've already sussed out the automation of adding watermarks to images, so it really shouldn't take you much more time at all to watermark your logos before putting your proofs up on the web, if it is a question of making sure that people don't rip you off and steal your logo designs without paying you.

Alternatively, just charge the entire cost up front for something like a logo so then there is no chance of people ripping you off. I doubt you would lose many *genuine* customers if you did that - but it would almost certainly weed out the timewasters and con artists...
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Verve Designs]

Thanks for that!

I'm loathe to watermark them really...it takes away from the aesthetic and I'm a bit of a ponce like that!

 

[redsadie]

Hi Carl

I know you 'Cheshire Sets'

I also know that you are being denied profit that you are losing if they do not turn up. Also, I don't think you are being too dramatic at all! At the end of the day it is heartbreaking, they are stealing your intellectual property and if you have seen your artwork that hasn't been paid for on a site, then I would send them an official Cease and Desist letter giving them 24 hours to take down the images or you will start legal proceedings to which then they would be liable for the price of the artwork as well as any legal costs.

I agree with Ruth that if they are genuine, then they would be happy to pay in full if you feel that the watermark is too time consuming for you. If at the end they are not happy with what you have shown them, which I can't see happening :hug:, then you give a refund, no questions asked and then if you see your designs on their site or wherever, then again, send a C&D letter.

Not being funny, (and probably shooting myself in the foot, lol) but imo you charge far too little for your 'other' work when clearly there is a lot that goes into it.

HTH's :green:

I know you are loathed to watermark them, but it doesn't have to be huge! Just a pale enough mark so that it's not so obtrusive but strong enough to be noticed, also through the middle (I know, I know!) but it will stop people being able to crop it out. xx

 

[Verve Designs]

Hiya,

Thanks for that! ...having one of "those" days..so nice to get some praise! ta!

...and food for thought. Hmmmmmm

And yeah, I know im ahem "cheap" lol (a bespoke logo costs between £200 and £500 usually)...but I like working with the people in this industry and I know there's not pots of money swilling around and a lot of people are new start-ups- so im realistic- and besides...my missus runs the salon!

 

[redsadie]

No worries Carl, we all get 'those days' :hug:

 

[Ruth Mills]

Carl, should you wish to use it, Salon Alchemy Watermark is a "proof of concept" site demonstrating the auto image watermarking; several people on here have already used it for adding copyright watermarks to things like nail photos before adding them to their web site and whatnot... might be worth a try even though I know what you mean about not wanting to pollute the aesthetic...
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[SunSpray]

Carl, business is business.

Requesting a deposit is in no way suggesting the client can't be trusted, but it definitely is a request for the client's commitment. When a deposit is requested, the client then makes the choice to commit to you - they don't have to, but of course they'll pay the deposit because they'll want you to know they're both comitted and sincere.

I was surprised not to be asked for a deposit from you for your design service. You could have so easily done all that great work and I could've upped and gone elsewhere. Your potential clients are supplied with a huge amount of design work of yours to look at before they commit, so they must know before they commission you whether they'll see the whole thing through.

If with your hair business the client does do the dirty and cancels half an hour before their appointment, you then have a choice - you can tell them the deposit has been forfeited or you can allow them one more chance (just in case they're sincere and do make another appointment).

I'm going on too much now. But I truly think you should work the Deposit of 20%/50% (?) Required At The Time Of Booking should be worked into your daily business from right now ....x

 

[number1kitty]

With regards to the hair side, yes I would agree a deposit is viable. If someone genuine wants an appointment then surely they won't mind. I have had hair extensions before and had to pay a deposit so I did without question. If they don't put down a deposit, you tell them you will book them in but cannot guarantee the app unless a deposit is paid, then if no one else wants that day then they can still be seen.

With regards to your work Mr thats a tricky one. I know your good, and will work your little socks off until I am happy. So I will pay a deposit happily. What though if someone does not like what you produce - would they get the deposit back? Saying that though I have only met you and a guy on another site (who is not good) that don't charge until they are happy or you pay a fee and they keep producing logos until your happy.

However I have paid many hundreds of pounds to graphic designers upfront for their work before I know how good they are so you asking for a deposit is not being unreasonable in the scheme of things.

What you charge anyway is great value and I cannot see anyone begrudging paying upfront a deposit, of even 50% what you charge.

So no its not cheeky, theres too many timewasters in the world, go for it!

Kate

 

[Verve Designs]

"What though if someone does not like what you produce"

I guess thats the same question in either industry. Problem is to get to that point theres hours of work gone in anyway...that frankly needs to be justified!

However, and not to get too cocky, it rarely happens on either side of the businesses.

 

[Annie23]

well in reference to a thread/poll i started a while back I can quite categorically say no way would i partake a deposit policy. I got shafted when I happily paid a deposit and had to cancel and gave more than 24 hours notice for a very genuine reason. So no to deposits. http://www.salongeek.com/biz-geek/99127-cancellation-appointments-clients-perspective-i-am-fuming.html

regarding the watermark, I cannot understand why it would take an hour, simply save your watermark as a photoshop file, export your logo as PDF, import into Photoshop, copy and paste watermark layer, resize watermark to fit logo. Save as a PDF. Job done. less than 5 mins.

anne xx

 

[Verve Designs]

Ok- maybe not an hour, but why should I do extra work? The process isn't as simple as you're suggesting. I wish it were! If it's 5 mins work and im doing 10 logos it's still 50 minutes work!

I dont just use Photoshop..I use Illustrator and CorelDraw too. I firstly have to design the thing, I have to slice out correct sizes, web optimize several individual logo's from 300dpi versions, then create a new webpage...upload the files and then create the links on the web- and thats all at the FIRST draft stage.

So adding extra work with a watermark layer (as well as making sure the watermark doesnt overlap or obscure anything vital to the logo)- isn't going to be acceptable really.

I can understand why you think it's a bad idea, and in that case...24 hours notice would be more than acceptable in my case at least. The company is clearly lacking common sense- which is what a deposit scheme (at least in my case) is encouraging. Both parties have a obligation to show a commitment.

But- minds made up....so, thanks for your input everyone.

p.s. Im not moaning...I love what I do! I just think it would make it "fairer" on my two companies and "genuine" clients who might have to wait/lose out

 

[number1kitty]

I was thinking more what if the client didnt like what you did and kept making changes etc. I think you should cap the changes to a maximum of xx so that you don't exhaust yourself. I wasn't commenting your work was bad, hell I own several of your designs :green::green::green::green:!

speaking of which - when you are free ... Mail me as I have lots of new things I need doing. Deposits waiting lol..... xx

 

[Verve Designs]

"I was thinking more what if the client didnt like what you did and kept making changes etc. I think you should cap the changes to a maximum of xx "

Nah- I dont mind carrying on until its right...just as long as they don't leg it at the end!

 

[number1kitty]

"I was thinking more what if the client didnt like what you did and kept making changes etc. I think you should cap the changes to a maximum of xx "

Nah- I dont mind carrying on until its right...just as long as they don't leg it at the end!

After driving my car into a ditch last night and needing to be towed out by some very very kind men and struggling to walk in my heels some of us wouldnt get far lol!! (never going to live that down I tell ya!) xx