Rent a chair - set hours?

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Steven89uk

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hi there. Iv been working in a salon 18months renting a chair and always offered late nights all throughout the week. The salon only does one late night a week. In september i dropped a day and only work 4 days now condensing my clients which has made my evenings busier as i do one less late night a week now. The set hours of what a day consisted of was never agreed as i just worked to accomodate clients

Because of this the salon isnt happy with me working late anymore as im still bringing in the same money but they arent getting the same from me. They have said they only want me working the set salon hours now and only do one late a week even though i have built my business to accomodate a lot of clients in the evenings.

If im renting a chair is this something that can be dictated what opening hours i have to adhere to?
 
See the sticky thread regarding HMRC guidelines for self employed stylists at the top of this forum.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vtaxpermanual/VTAXPER69100.htm.

2. Access

.....The Contractor to have access to their business at all times and have the ability to be open for custom at any time of their choice.
---------------------------

Remind the salon owner that you are an independent business from her salon so you can set your own prices, offers and choose when to open etc.

Print off a copy of the guidelines and highlight the relevant section(s) and give it to the salon owner. Hopefully, she'll realise that trying to make you comply with the salon's policies will make it appear to HMRC that she's trying to blur the lines between employed/self employed.

It's really not your problem if she didn't think it through before renting out the chair. However, try to be pragmatic and point out to her that you wouldn't want either of you to get into trouble with HMRC and by sticking to the guidelines, it will avoid any unnecessary investigations.
 
Thank you for your reply. I called acas this morning and they said the opposite lol they used the analogy of if i was a market stall in a shopping centre. Id be self employed but id only be able to trade under the shopping centres opening hours. Or if i was a joiner on a site, they would only have access to a site during certain times even though they are self employed too

Is chair rental different?
 
That's disappointing. I'd expect ACAS to employ knowledgable staff.
The Joiner is a sub-contractor and that's a different kettle of fish entirely. The Market stall analogy doesn't really work either.

Yes chair renting is different to those two examples. That's why HMRC have published these guidelines. :)
 
That's disappointing. I'd expect ACAS to employ knowledgable staff.
The Joiner is a sub-contractor and that's a different kettle of fish entirely. The Market stall analogy doesn't really work either.

Yes chair renting is different to those two examples. That's why HMRC have published these guidelines. :)

Thanks i just wasnt sure. If i pay £50 for the day should that technically mean i should have access for the 24hrs iv paid for then? Obviously dont want to work that but just for what rights i have
 
When you're self employed, it's up to you to negotiate the best terms for your business. However, in contrast to being employed, there are few rights or laws to protect you. You can't think in terms of employment rights.
You are a fellow business owner, not a member of staff.

HMRC drafted the guidelines to discourage salon owners from blurring the lines between employed/self employed. There are salon owners that treat their chair renters as staff by keeping client records, issuing rules, uniforms, setting prices, taking bookings via the salon phone but not paying tax, national insurance, holiday and sick pay etc.

HMRC will prosecute a salon owner if they believe that the salon owner is acting improperly. They can fine them as well as requiring them to pay back the tax, NI contributions and calculate the minimum wage the self employed person should have received. Being investigated by HMRC can be very stressful.

As a self employed chair renter, you must negotiate your terms directly with the salon owner. The daily rate payable is part of the terms of the contract between you and the salon owner. The salon owner could reasonably suggest that the daily rate is for a 9 hour day but as you've been working longer days for a while, it's up to you to argue that your understanding from the outset was that you set your own working hours for each day. If she had issued a written contract at the beginning that stated rent payable was for a 9 hour day and you had agreed to it, that would be the end of the matter.

Her mistake was not issuing a detailed written contract.

Many owners don't bother because they don't want to spend money on solicitors fees but then they get into a grey area and try to insist on a particular rule but you don't have to agree. It's up to you to negotiate what's best for your business. She can always increase your rent to compensate for her lost revenue but equally, if you're not working on say Mondays, she can rent the chair to someone else that day. Bear in mind that if you're on your own in the salon over several evenings, she's having to cover extra heating and electricity costs that she might not have initially budgeted for.

However, if it suits you to work there, try to find a way forward to satisfy you both. Would you be willing to pay a slightly higher daily rental fee? If she's not willing to compromise, you or she can agree to part ways.

By referring to the HMRC guidelines, you can use them to help you negotiate a reasonable deal and not be treated as a second rate employee. However, they are just guidelines so use them as part of your negotiating tactics. You want to work in a salon where you feel comfortable and not ill at ease.
 
That makes a lot of sense. If in the meeting extra costs was a reason for not wanting me to stay late i could understand that completely.

Instead the reason given was so their clients didnt get confused seeing the salon open past opening times, even though both salon owners do late nights to fit people in like i do outside salon hours or open an extra day on a sunday too. Just made no sense, one rule for them, one for me

Another thing they didnt like was me using the salon name to say where i worked to advertise where i was or using a picture of the outside of the salon to show people where i was located! Crazy
 
Just to offer a different perspective, I rent chairs and follow the HMRC guidelines with the stylist being responsible for all their matters. However I do make them stick to the salon's core business hours. it's not a problem if they are running late or need to start half hour early to accommodate a client, but the salon has published hours. This was made clear when they started and you need to have a boundary, my rent-a-chairs pay for the days they work. You do get people who think it's acceptable to pay for a day and then work from 7am to midnight which doesn't fit well with the other stylists and costs the salon more to heat and light. Personally I have no issues justifying this to HMRC, their guidelines are just that.......guidelines which do not all have to be met.

I'd agree with AcidPerm, the guidelines will help to negotiate, I'd just be wary of coming down heavy and quoting the HMRC as you want to have a good working relationship with the salon owner.
 

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