About UV and UV LED's and the differences scientifically.

SalonGeek

Help Support SalonGeek:

gellybaby

Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Location
UK
I've read tons in these forums about UV lamps and LED lamps and it needs to be stated loud and clear that LED lamps are also delivering 'ultra-violet' UV light. So, any LED lamp that cures gels or shellacs is also 'UV'.. They are all UV-LED's. So, IMO, people who are banging on about using specific manufacture's lamps in order to cure their gels aren't making much sense to me. It's purely 'science'. A 36W UV lamp is about as intense as a 12W LED UV lamp. The difference is an LED will cure faster due to the wavelength of the LED UV light it produces. End of story, but, here is the science:

“UV” stands for “ultraviolet,” which is a wavelength beyond what human eyes can see. On the electro-magnetic spectrum, it’s roughly between 100 nm. and 400 nm. (The violet light you see inside your gel light is the farthest color on the light spectrum human eyes can see; human eyes can’t see the ultraviolet wavelength that’s actually curing the gel.) UV gel lamps use bulbs that are compact fluorescents (known as “CFLs” or compact fluorescent lamps).

The wavelength on LED gel lights is much narrower than that of the UV/compact fluorescent lights. This *narrow wavelength emits the right amount of the specific UV-A wavelength that’s needed to cure LED-curable gels, which is why LED-curable gels cure faster in LED lights than in UV/CFL gel lights.

As most UV gels require the use of 350 nm. to cure, most UV lamps emit a wavelength ranging from roughly 320 to 400 nm. But an LED manufacturer that uses an LED gel that is rated for 375 nm. will use bulbs that emit from only 370 to 380 nm. “LED” stands for “light emitting diode,” which refers to the type of bulb an LED gel lamp uses.

Most of the ultraviolet light emitted by gel lamps (whether they’re marketed as UV lamps or UV-LED lamps) is Ultraviolet-A (UV-A), which is safer for humans than Ultraviolet-B (UV-B). The bulbs used in UV nail lights contain special internal filters that remove almost all UV-B.
 

gellybaby

Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Location
UK

cloughers

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
2,241
Reaction score
193
Location
uk
Very interesting.... just waiting for the backlash!
 

JuicyLucy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
2,433
Reaction score
124
Location
Nottingham
Click. Opens can of worms :)

Who is Doug Dema?
 

mizzy_dizzy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
3,699
Reaction score
149
Location
Wichita Kansas !
LED's light emitting diodes can and do produce UV light ........

so do traditional UV bulbs ..........

Thery are 2 diffrent ways of delivering UV light....
just as an apple or a pc are both capable of internet.

the fact they can both cure products is not really a shock horror revaluation if you know your product science ?


UV gel , UV polish , UV cured top coats and Shellac all contain photo initiators .... different amounts of these are present depending on the product and quality ans sometimes color (this is why your not suposed to mix colors with some and also why some techs with inferior products will find they need to cure a dark color for longer ..........

so stands to reason that different amounts of photo initiators in some products would lead to specific curing with an exact range of UV out put , where as a cheaper or generic product may be curable in almost anything .
 

izzidoll

Strictly Scottish Geek!
Premium Geek
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
12,313
Reaction score
639
Location
Scotland
A lot of this information is already on here, but I also would like to know who this Doug Dema from Hicksville is, and his background, it says technology, but what kind of technology (apart from blogs).
I think the other Doug...i.e. Doug Schoon whose background is in science and nail technology is the one I will keep listening to.

Also I know my stuff as far as nails and enhancements systems go , but even for me once you get into all that... wavelength ranging from roughly 320 to 400 nm. But an LED manufacturer that uses an LED gel that is rated for 375 nm. will use bulbs that emit from only 370 to 380 nm. “LED” stands for “light emitting diode,”
My eyes glaze over and I have no idea what it all means....:eek:

Do you Gellybabe?, have you a background in this field, or is this something you found on t'internet and thought we should also like to know?

No matter, as I will put my trust in the companies that sell me my products and put the research into the products and lamps, and I shall continue to give my clients a full service from a complete system.
Thats why they trust me and keep coming back. ;)
 

x Fee x

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
1,499
Reaction score
306
Location
Bedfordshire, England
EDIT: Well done Izzi and Mizzy- i was typing away while you posted!

Research will also tell you that it's not just the wavelength of the UV emissions, but the particular amount UV exposure required to react in the correct way with the corresponding amount of photoinitiators in the product, as well as the positioning of the bulbs etc, etc, etc, that result in a complete and thorough cure.
It will also tell you that the perfect cure isn't when it's looks cured- It's when the scientists in their labs with their high tech equipment test it out. I'm not qualified, even with a bit of scientific research on lamps, to use a system differently than directed and then say it's cured because it looks like it.

Regardless, when a Scientist with the knowledge and honesty that CND's Doug Schoon has, and a company who have an outstanding Research Department have developed a product and lamp that go hand in hand for a perfect system cure, tells us that's the way the system works, I'm damn sure going to put the safety of myself and my clients first by following that exact advice.

Love and polish to you x
 

NancySyd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Messages
1,469
Reaction score
640
Location
Boston, MA USA
There really isn't much here that hasn't already been said in this forum before. Although you state the science of this fairly accurately, you omit some critical points of the science that renders your point a bit off. The first is the "match" between photinitiators and light. A failure to match these results in no cure, or worse, a bad cure that is undetected.

Shellac, for example, uses fewer and different photoinitiators than most gel polishes and a lamp with a narrow spectrum (like an LED) is likely to not cure or improperly cure Shellac. In addition, it is not just the wattage and the wavelength that matters - there is also the issue of making sure the light hits the gel for a sufficient amount of time. That's where the issue of light design, reflectors and hand placement come in. This gets especially important with LEDs because the light stream tends to be more narrow than the CFL bulbs.This is where the issue about using the right lamp comes in. Unless a manufacturer can be assured that the lamp meets all of its specifications for design, it can't be sure it is curing properly. Hence, the insistence on their own lamp.

I agree that it is clear that there is considerable overlap in terms of what lamps cure what products - it appears that most name brand LED lamps will cure most name brand LED gels/polishes. It appears that most quality CFL UV lamps cure most quality gels/polishes (with some notable exceptions). Many of the LED lamps are made by the same company and are rebranded.

Ultimately, the problem is that it is difficult to tell if a polish is properly cured. There are few easily accessible tests for it. Service breakdown is usually the way to tell and that takes time and is not reliable. We are all at the mercy of the manufacturers in that regard. Given the number of brands that have cropped up, it is impossible for techs to have a lamp for every system they use. There is already lots of clamoring for a universal CFL/CCFL/LED lamp. I think manufacturers are going to have to be more transparent than they are now, either deciding upon a common range for lamps and gels, or offering some sort of indicator on lamps and gels to be sure they match.

I'm not one for blind allegiance to a product, process or manufacturer. As professionals, it is our responsibility to customize our services to the client, within the parameters of assuring health and safety. But those decisions must be made based on what is good for the client, not on the basis of our cost or convenience. Until there is a change in how the lamp-gel issue works, it just makes sense to use the lamp that the manufacturer has determined will work for their product. Anything less is experimenting on clients and could be exposing clients to an unnecessary risk. More importantly, it is exposing them to a risk for the worst reasons of all - greed and laziness!
 

EmJZ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
1,128
Reaction score
7
Location
Canada
Ultimately, the problem is that it is difficult to tell if a polish is properly cured. There are few easily accessible tests for it. Service breakdown is usually the way to tell and that takes time and is not reliable. We are all at the mercy of the manufacturers in that regard. Given the number of brands that have cropped up, it is impossible for techs to have a lamp for every system they use. There is already lots of clamoring for a universal CFL/CCFL/LED lamp. I think manufacturers are going to have to be more transparent than they are now, either deciding upon a common range for lamps and gels, or offering some sort of indicator on lamps and gels to be sure they match.

I'm not one for blind allegiance to a product, process or manufacturer. As professionals, it is our responsibility to customize our services to the client, within the parameters of assuring health and safety. But those decisions must be made based on what is good for the client, not on the basis of our cost or convenience. Until there is a change in how the lamp-gel issue works, it just makes sense to use the lamp that the manufacturer has determined will work for their product. Anything less is experimenting on clients and could be exposing clients to an unnecessary risk. More importantly, it is exposing them to a risk for the worst reasons of all - greed and laziness!
totally agree....if you want to offer different types of gel to your clients then you should also make sure that you offer the best cure to them as well. If you have 2 different gels that are known to cure in the same lamp..ie: Brisa and Shellac, then great....if you've chosen 2 different brands, then you should have also chosen to have 2 differnet lamps. If you cannot afford to do so, then maybe only offer one type of gel until you can warrent getting the lamp as well.
 

Envy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Messages
1,836
Reaction score
178
Location
Auckland, New Zealand
There are some wonderfully baffling numbers being chucked around. Rather than add more confusion ive emailed Doug Schoon to swing by and comment (ie translate) ...
 

Doug Schoon

Chemistry Geek
Joined
Mar 24, 2004
Messages
53
Reaction score
17
Location
Dana Point, CA
Hi,
The information presented on the Pure Spa blog cited above is incorrect and appears to be intentionally misleading. In my opinion, that site should not be considered a credible source of information and should be avoided.

Months ago I posted a reply on the Pure Spa blog to correct this misinformation and they refused to post what I said. I wondered why, so I called the company to ask. They said they would correct the misinformation, but many months later they've not done so. That leads me to believe they are intentionally misleading readers and just want your money! They don't appear to care that they are providing incorrect information. This is just a clever marketing ploy designed to get your money!

If you want the facts, they are easy to find. On my website, www.dougschoon.com, look under both the "resources" tab and the "educational updates" tab and you find several articles I've written about how to "properly cure" UV nail products and about LED lamps. You will learn why the correct UV lamp must be used and you'll also learn that all LED lamps produce UVA light, just like traditional UV bulb lamps and sometimes at even higher levels.

There is no reason to be confused or fooled, unless you want to be. The information I've provided is easy to understand and based on science, so it's your choice. Read the facts from a scientist who knows and has researched these issues for many years or you can listen to marketing nonsense from tricksters that want to sell you their goods by misinforming you.
 

Helbels

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
226
Reaction score
7
Location
Fleet, Hampshire
Thank you Doug, I'm off for a read... I've been wondering about the differences over the past two days and now here you are to enlighten me :)
 

Helbels

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
226
Reaction score
7
Location
Fleet, Hampshire

The Geek

Grand Master Geek
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Geek
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
13,264
Reaction score
666
Location
Leeds, UK

Wooshka

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
1,252
Reaction score
54
Location
Brisbane, Australia
:lol: I read the blog, then read a earlier post in this thread where someone mentioned the name Doug (I'll admit, I did not read who wrote the article at the time of reading it) but when I read the same Doug, I knew straight away before even going to the link to check, that it was not the Doug Schoon 'Doug', we all know and trust, it is not his style of blog and yep, I was right when I checked out who this Doug was.


Thank you very much Doug for popping in to again share this info with us.

It's like banging your head on a brick wall!!! When will this debate end????
When will people stop, read, listen and learn when it comes to the issue of UV lamps V's LED lamps.
The evidence is right there for all to learn from and it's been provided by the TOP beauty scientist......Mr Doug Schoon, so read it, believe it and then make sure you are using the correct lamp for your system of preference, it really is as simple as that and if you choose not to, then don't come complaining to anybody that you are getting service breakdown.
 

NancySyd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Messages
1,469
Reaction score
640
Location
Boston, MA USA
Thank you very much Doug for popping in to again share this info with us.

It's like banging your head on a brick wall!!! When will this debate end????
When will people stop, read, listen and learn when it comes to the issue of UV lamps V's LED lamps.
I think the "debate" will end when manufacturers decide to be more transparent about the issue and respond to the concerns of their customers. The SOGP market has evolved and continues to change rapidly as new companies and technologies enter the fray. A year and a half ago, requiring the manufacturer's lamp was not a big deal. Techs used one system and stayed within that system. Nowadays, techs may (need to) use many systems and are beginning to experiment with intermixing systems; DIYers have been doing this for a long time. Many systems use the rebranded lamp of another system - so the "lamp for each system" thing is getting harder to afford and harder to justify. Like computer platforms, some standardization across brands is likely to be the result.

That said, until this is sorted, using your manufacturer's lamp is obviously the thing to do. I hope that manufacturers will take note of this debate/concern and start working on cross-platform/brand solutions.
 

Latest posts

Top