Boss from hell! - Can I liberate my clients?

[Beautygirl1977]

This is exactly why I came straight from college and started on my own because of the hassle when you leave and clients come with. I haven't worked in any other salon and had to do my work experience an hour away because no business here would take me knowing I was going to start on my own. I take in students to do work experience because I want to help people and I can't do the whole towns nails! I also refer to other beauticians in the area when I can't manage or can't provide the service. Bottom line if the business is that good they have nothing to worry about.

 

[shedunlop]

A contract is a contract. Why sign it if you do not agree with it? If your contract says you cannot work within a certain distance and can't take clients etc and you have signed it then the law will back this up. Unless there is an unreasonable time limit on it or unreasonable distance it is legally binding.

Employees are exactly that and this is a classic example of why I have never been tempted into the role of employer, it is just too much hassle. What would happen if everyone felt like that? There would be no jobs for anyone and therefore everyone would have to either give up or start their own business and build their own clients.

I know this is frustrating and I do understand if the salon owner is difficult but they are the owner.

I would start up on my own, advertise well using your own name and see who contacts you. That way you are safe from any sort of legal action against you my darling and if you end up employing people you will see this from a very different angle.

 

[Beautygirl1977]

I would never sign a contract like this but everyone is not in my position and need to start somewhere and I doubt you would get the job if you didn't sign it. I think it's common courtesy to tell your clients you are leaving. I would be really disappointed if my hairdresser just moved on and didn't tell me. People have the right to choose. Nobody "owns" clients! Anyway to the op, I would tell them and let them make their own minds up.

 

[taggyboy]

I consider my clients to be mine not the businesses, I offer the service they want not the business. I wouldn't poach clients but would let them know I was leaving. However I have to take my clients history with me if I leave as it's part of the privacy laws, so business that I work for dosn't have Any connection to my clients. Depends on what you do really. Loyal clients to the business will stay adapt to different treatments or follow you because your style is reason they are there not the business.

Did your clients pay you direct or the salon?

I'm not sure how the law is in Australia so can't really comment on that but I would presume that the clients history belongs to the salon owner under the data protection act. Particularly if you were employed and not self-employed

 

[taggyboy]

I would never sign a contract like this but everyone is not in my position and need to start somewhere and I doubt you would get the job if you didn't sign it. I think it's common courtesy to tell your clients you are leaving. I would be really disappointed if my hairdresser just moved on and didn't tell me. People have the right to choose. Nobody "owns" clients! Anyway to the op, I would tell them and let them make their own minds up.

Most salon owners, once you have given notice, would probably put you on gardners leave, this is to protect their business and is lawful. However, if a staff member was hatching a plan to advise clients before they left then that could be classed as misconduct and you could lose your job before you had time to give notice.

Clients are fairly savvy people and know when something is afoot in a salon environment, that alone can put clients off.

I totally agree with you that nobody owns a client, they certainly are free to pick and choose who they go with BUT and it's a big BUT only if they look for you after you have left, not whilst you are still working in the salon and being paid by a boss!
:irked:

 

[Divine h & b]

Clients are free to go where they want we do live in a free country so to speak but like I said earlier in the topic a contract is a contract if it states that you cannot take or contact the clients it would breach the contract and possible the data protection act.

As for saying if you were told " you wouldn't be employed if you didn't sign the contract" no where would employ someone if they wouldn't sign the contract so I can't see how that would stand!

I would take action if someone breached my contract as I would expect my employees to act if I didn't pay the correct pay or give them enough holidays or terminated there employment with out following my contract which they have signed

 

[jacqueline]

It sounds like Australia is the same as some of the laws here. (post no 40)

In black and white, massage clients for example belong to the therapist not the business if you are working as a contractor.

A bit unfair, heck yes as without the business and business owner, the contractor wouldn't have clients but again it is all to do with the healthcare laws and regulations.

 

[Beautygirl1977]

I was thinking about taking a job in a salon a couple of weeks ago and after reading this thread I'm so glad I didn't! I would have brought that salon a lot of clients and if I ever wanted to move on again I maybe wouldn't have been allowed to tell them or have them as clients for a while. Everyone looks at it from different sides but to me it seems all wrong

 

[jojo@tranquil]

Blimey as a potential employer all of this really scares me !
I am currently looking for a therapist to employ, I also have freelance therapists coming into the salon which offer treatments I don't, I just take a percentage and it works fine.
Employing people is very new to me, and it I would hate to think that I would invest in a therapist and then they walk away with half my business.
Of course I understand I need to get a contract sorted out, can I just ask other employers do they draw it up themselves or get an employment solicitor to do it ?
Any advise greatly received !

JoJo x

 

[JoJo1980]

My friend did this and when it came to rebooking the clients she just booked them in at her new place. She got a solicitor letter from her ex boss but apparently the way round it is to say you were told if you didn't sign the contract you wouldn't get the job. At the time there were loads of therapists/stylists left and did this. One of them even opened a shop across the road from her and took all her clients! So there is a way round it. I don't think clients belong to anyone. It's up to them where they want to go.

Do you have your own salon with employees? If so, I really hope for your sake you dont employ people with the same moral ethics as your friend

Why shouldnt a salon owner protect their business? They are the ones taking all the flak and pouring in blood sweat and tears to give people a job- many times at the sacrifice of a decent wage for themselves!

I apologise if my opinion offends, but I find this incredibly underhanded and unethical.
I really beleive the OP should move on, by all means tell your clients you are going, but move on with some grace and the moral high ground. If youre good at what you do you WILL be found by your clients.
If youre not.....maybe theres cause to worry about it......

 

[kellyatflawless]

You probably have a case for constructive dismissal.

Also does your contact not have stipulations about paying overtime etc

As others have said people will find you through word of mouth, Facebook etc so no need to proactively take them, just make sure there is a way for them to find you.

 

[Beautygirl1977]

No I don't have employees I work for myself. Like I said, I was saying there is a way around it. In the town I live most people book in with a therapist when they make an appointment and they usually want to stick with that therapist. If the client was aware the salon did this here it would probably put them off going back there anyway.

 

[Melk]

As a massage therapist the law says I personally need to keep my client records private, therefore if I leave place of employment I can't leave their medical records behind. I also have to store them for 7 years after they have had their last appointment. All other clients don't have records I would have to take so wouldn't. Massage laws are very strict.

 

[MrsHBeauty]

I agree that clients build up a relationship with the therapist. I have followed my hair dresser BUT when she moved the salon just wasn't nice, they didn't offer me a cup of tea when my foils were on and I had to wait 45 minutes, so I went back to the old salon tried a new hairdresser and stayed there. The hairdresser didn't tell me she was leaving, the salon did! They advised me that X was leaving but they would recommend Y for my hair dressing needs. They even told me where she was moving to.

It's not all about the therapist it's about the salon (hair or beauty) aswell. Salons and therapists fit together, I hope I provide a good atmosphere competitive prices and professional services. Only the last is solely down to the skill of the therapist. The rest is my blood and sweat.

After all hasn't therapists been paid throughout their employment? Been paid holidays, bonus etc?

I can't believe people want to start a business by stealing another's! Karma will be waiting round the corner and quite rightly so.

Contracts are their to protect both employee and employer. I certainly would not employ someone if they wouldn't agree to the terms in the contract. By signing the contract it indicates they do agree to the contract, and I agree to agree to stick to my side of the bargain.

At least at the end of each week I can sit back and be proud of what I have achieved on my own, my salon is my pride and joy, I will not have it compromised in anyway. I will fight to protect it (lawfully of course).

Gardening leave would be essential.

 

[Melk]

Everyone keeps talking about stealing clients, I don't get that I run my own business as well as work for one. I have never thought about my clients as something I own. I am there to offer a service if the service fits all their needs they won't go elsewhere. However if someone else fits better they will go there. I have clients that have come to me from other therapists both in salon and out. Businesses need to work on making there staff happy so they don't want to leave as well as clients. As far as I know in Australia your employed to do a job, when you leave you have no obligation to that employer apart from confidentiality. Different if your employee has paid training but I wouldnt pay $6000 to be qualified to then earn $18 a hr and be restricted as to what I could do after I left their employment.

 

[BABSann]

Firstly a contract doesn't have to be signed for it to take affect. As soon as you accept the contract and start working for your employer it is legally binding.

I also am a firm believer that the clients belong to the salon not to the employee. If the clients want to go the the employee once they have left then it's their job to find out where the therapist has gone. I wouldn't dream of passing on my details to old clients. It's totally unprofessional.

I worked in one salon for over 9 yrs and I felt like a lot of my regulars were family. I cried on my last day and still miss them a lot but they weren't mine to poach and so they either go to the new therapist or make it their business to find out where I work now.

When I set up my own business I advertised in a local paper with a picture of myself. That's as far as I would go.

 

[Beautygirl1977]

Brilliant post Melk! I agree with every word!

 

[linzi]

How can someone stipulate by way of a contract where you can work and who you can keep in contact with? I don't think breach of contract would stand up in court at all! Employers put that clause in to scare employees!

That's very wrong advice and could have costly consquences for the OP. One of the precedent cases with regards to restrictive covenants is Nordenfelt vs Maxim, Nordenfelt Gun and Ammunitions Company [1894]. Nordenfelt sold his company to Maxim and, in the sale, it was agreed that he "would not make guns or ammunition anywhere in the world, and would not compete with Maxim in any way for a period of 25 years’. In court, it was decided that it was perfectly reasonable to ask Nordenfelt not to make guns for 25 years and also that it should be an international ban. The only thing the House of Lords ruled out was the 'and would not compete with Maxim in ANY way'. In other words, that he wouldn't set up in any other type of business either.

The restrictive covenants may seem unfair to the outsider looking in but it takes many, many years to build a good, profitable business. The covenants WILL be upheld (or very slightly altered) in court, it's not just something employers put in there to weird people out. Businesses invest a LOT in terms of time, money and faith in their employees - they train them up, show them their ways of working (their 'trade secrets') and it's not then fair on them to have the employees turn around and pull the rug from under their feet.

I understand that you're not happy with your employment, and there's not much worse than being depserately unhappy at work - afterall, we spend much of our time there. However, you absolutely CANNOT just poach the clients. If they happen to hear through the grapevine and then decide to leave the present salon of their own free will, then fair enough.

 

[glitznglamour]

Still some people on here ADVOCATING THEFT!
A client is an asset to a business, would you take client records or numbers if you worked in an office ? You would be committing theft!

I put all my money into starting my business, I took all the risks, i have the recession to deal with, councils, waste contractors, special treatments licence, insurance, rent, poll tax, utility bills etc etc etc,,,, and before any employees think all owners are rich get a grip!

Never have i read such shocking comments from so called Professionals who think they can do what the hell they want!

I am not excusing bad employers, i get annoyed with them treating employees like S#*+ as well,

Kindest regards to all the Professionals on this thread who do the right thing, employees and employers!

Please feel free to think i am wrong, i know i am not

 

[Melk]

Still some people on here ADVOCATING THEFT!
A client is an asset to a business, would you take client records or numbers if you worked in an office ? You would be committing theft!

I put all my money into starting my business, I took all the risks, i have the recession to deal with, councils, waste contractors, special treatments licence, insurance, rent, poll tax, utility bills etc etc etc,,,, and before any employees think all owners are rich get a grip!

Never have i read such shocking comments from so called Professionals who think they can do what the hell they want!

I am not excusing bad employers, i get annoyed with them treating employees like S#*+ as well,

Kindest regards to all the Professionals on this thread who do the right thing, employees and employers!

Please feel free to think i am wrong, i know i am not

I'm not advocating theft, I don't believe you have the right to take client cards,client ph numbers, unless by law you have too. But if clients choose to follow you if you leave that should be their choice.