evangelinegrace
Well-Known Member
Usually you don't do degrees in BT or hairdressing... Or nails. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Botox training for beauty therapists?
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Usually you don't do degrees in BT or hairdressing... Or nails. And there is nothing wrong with that.
Well, yes, and what degree do you have? The "rubbish degree" or are you a nurse?
I'm not arguing about beauty therapist to practice with botox.
evangelinegrace
Well-Known Member
Well I'm only 18 so no time for a degree yet, I'm doing Dentistry from next year though, if that counts? Lol
evangelinegrace
Well-Known Member
You're right, I really do not understand your point. You asked what degree I had, and I proceeded to answer.
Anyway, I think what the OP meant was a non-medical degree. Which are "rubbish" if one is doing a medical procedure.
essentia
Well-Known Member
I am sorry but to imply that surgeons and doctors aren't up to the job is unbelievable - this is definitely one of these threads that cause ill feeling and stir up trouble.
siobrennan
Well-Known Member
no offence taken lol you know what we are like about our title lol! I dont know if our proffesional governing bodies would cover us though, as is this not "outwith the scope of practise"? who knows!! but yeah given the choice id rather have someone with a science/medical based degree stick needles in me than a BT im afraid!
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Bonkers
Well-Known Member
I just think its a bit out of order to imply that any other degree other than nursing is simply rubbish As is to say that doctors surgeon etc know nothing.
I agree beauty therapist shouldn't inject botox
I also think that nurses should spend more time looking after patients instead of moonlighting as Botox therapists. I think there should be much much stricter guidelines on Botox etc
The sane for teeth whitening should only be done by dentists.
This argument has been done to death there are lots of threads on the same thing discussing why beauty therapists shouldn't inject Botox. Just another pointless thread to cause offence IMO
I agree beauty therapist shouldn't inject botox
I also think that nurses should spend more time looking after patients instead of moonlighting as Botox therapists. I think there should be much much stricter guidelines on Botox etc
The sane for teeth whitening should only be done by dentists.
This argument has been done to death there are lots of threads on the same thing discussing why beauty therapists shouldn't inject Botox. Just another pointless thread to cause offence IMO
lucelasticx
Well-Known Member
I would only let Doctors and Dentists inject as i have heard LOTS of student nurses say as soon as they are qualified they will only be doing cosmetic procedures and forget nursing.
My problem with this is most of these nurses have been paid bursuries to study so we have nurses when we need them which really grates if they just go into botox etc. Also just because you have a nursing qualification doesn't guarrantee enough experience. Doctors and Dentists all the way for me .Sorry but it's my face and my money and i vote with my wallet .
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My problem with this is most of these nurses have been paid bursuries to study so we have nurses when we need them which really grates if they just go into botox etc. Also just because you have a nursing qualification doesn't guarrantee enough experience. Doctors and Dentists all the way for me .Sorry but it's my face and my money and i vote with my wallet .
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ashalina23
Well-Known Member
Botox boy - you think you have more prescribing experience than Drs?! How do you work that one out when GP's see 6 people per hour for 7 hours a day.
ProperPrincess
Well-Known Member
Would I trust Botox boy to inject... Absolutely!
Would I trust a spray tanner or nail tech... Not on your nelly!
A doctor or nurse... Yes!
It doesn't take a genius to work out that if you are injecting people you will need a decent degree. I read Botox boys comment "rubbish degrees" as a degree in an irrelevant subject. I'm not sure he was having a pop at beauty therapists!
I have a degree but I certainly wouldn't think a piece of paper is sufficient to provide an injectable service.
I also wouldn't want Botox boy applying a set of l&p on my nails.
If your trained in something that's what u offer.
Well in a normal world!
Would I trust a spray tanner or nail tech... Not on your nelly!
A doctor or nurse... Yes!
It doesn't take a genius to work out that if you are injecting people you will need a decent degree. I read Botox boys comment "rubbish degrees" as a degree in an irrelevant subject. I'm not sure he was having a pop at beauty therapists!
I have a degree but I certainly wouldn't think a piece of paper is sufficient to provide an injectable service.
I also wouldn't want Botox boy applying a set of l&p on my nails.
If your trained in something that's what u offer.
Well in a normal world!
Just to pick you up on your point re nurses moonlighting.
Cosmetic Medicine is a medical specialitiy, in the same way that gastroenterology is a speciality. Nurses once qualified work within a specific area of medicine, and continue to develop professionally within that speciality.
My speciality is cosmetic medicine/dermatology. I have been medically qualified for over 20 years. I have qualified to degree level, completed my prescribing qualification, trained alongside well respected peers, and have been asked to work as a trainer for one of the aesthetic pharmaceutical companies at the same time as establishing and managing my busy clinic.
I treat a whole range of dermatological conditions IN ADDITION to botox and fillers (its not just about botox and fillers). I work long, long hours (not complaining - many of us do). I would argue that whether or not my work is NHS or private, it is valuable to the patients I treat, and I know they would most certainly agree. To effectively improve the quality of life for an individual who has battled with acne conditions most of their life is priceless. To improve someones self esteem who has struggled with excessive perspiration most of their adult life with no degree of respite makes my job worthwhile. To correct facial asymetry due to the effects of palsy - I could go on...
I make no apologies for charging for the treatments I provide - they are not available on the NHS. I have built a successful business, and yes, I would not be in business if I did not make a profit. However, it is not just about making money.
I am a qualified nurse, working within the field of aesthetic NURSING albeit private not NHS. Moonlighting - most definitely not - looking after my patients - absolutely!
BotoxBoy
Well-Known Member
By rubbish degrees let me clarify, and i am REALLY not having a go at beauty therapists! You lot are hardworking and often underpaid for what you do!
I mean the type of degree where you do 6 hours of lectures a week and a bit of 'course work' such as these newer degrees in 'media' or 'new media' which anyone can pass.
Compare this to nursing where it's 30 hours a a week lectures plus full time working on the wards with no pay and medicine which is 5 years etc.
Bit patronising...18 is an adult and I could more than stand on my own feet at this age!
I wasn't saying they were not up to the job - If I needed surgery I would go to a surgeon. If I was ill I would go to an advanced nurse practitioner or doctor like me. If i needed and injection, I would go to a nurse.
Surgeons are amazing at the surgical cosmetic side. My point is nurses have more experience of injecting!
I suppose words come across harsher in the written form ;-)
I re-posted on this theme as I said because a new company is seeking BT's for botox training so this is a current and relavant post regardless of how many times it has been discussed before.
I wasn't saying doctors and surgeons are 'rubbish' I was talking about a)how much injecting experience they have specifically and b)who actually TRAINS them to do it!
I agree, teeth whitening with lasers or bleaching agents should ONLY be done by dentists as the risks from these procedures are very high!
This is how I work it out: To become a nurse prescriber you have to have a minimum of three years post qualified experience and a degree meaning by the time you can even apply for the 6 months masters or degree prescribing course you will have six years experience under your belt.
Then, on this six month course you have 90 hours of supervised prescribing, a video consultation which is examined, a 14,000 word portfolio of evidence to prove you know how to prescribe, anatomy and physiology and pharmacology lectures 8 in the six months, two written exams, a maths exam where you have to get 100% or you fail and two essays totalling 7500 words. THEN if you pass all of this, you have to have three further weeks supervised practice, document every drug you are about to prescribe in a 'p' list including interactions, side effects etc before you are finally allowed. Oh, then you have to pay the nursing and midwifery council to go on a separate part of the national register which is checked annually by them to ensure you remain competent.
Now..doctors...5 years in medical school. One lecture on prescribing, sometimes none in many unis. Graduate from uni, can prescribe anything immediately. No checks on competency, no supervised practice, just 'off you go'. I lost count YEARS ago how many doctors come to me to ask how much of a drug to prescribe, how you give it and side effects etc. Even consultants do this! Granted I am at the top of the nursing profession with regards to my 'day job' in the NHS but junior staff nurses even have more teaching and supervision with medicines!
I really feel the general public either are unaware of the current role of nurses or still think we just make beds and wash patients. Nurses are running the NHS trust me. MANY patient's lives have been saved by them intervening when the wrong medicine is prescribed. I'm not saying nurses are perfect, but the sheer amount of continuous training they have to do to constantly prove themselves compared to doctors who are given free reign, which they admit to me all the time, is crazy. Crazy in a good way as because we have had to jump through so many hoops to be able to prescribe, we treasure it and we are a damn site better at it and there are many studies to prove it!
BotoxBoy
Well-Known Member
Hi, I can take any criticism on here and in fact it is really healthy to have a debate.
However, one thing I really want to point out is that I am in no way arrogant. I am passionate about nursing and I truly have the best job in the world. I get to help people in the darkest moments of their lives and help them through some unimaginable events in their life during my role as advanced nurse practitioner in a busy A&E dept.
I suppose my passion for this comes across a little strongly at times and for this I apologise.
I hope my statement clarifying what I meant by 'rubbish degrees' above helps a little and I think my choice of words was bad.
I absolutely support beauty therapists and in fact ANYONE who has made it as far as we have to running their own business whether sole trader or whatever as it is no mean feat.
I came into this world 18 months ago thinking it would be easy! It is not!
My rationale for posting about BT's and non-medical people doing injectable cosmetics is not for wanting to 'save all the cash for nurses' or anything like that as there are millions of clients out there and you only need to be exceptional at what you do to retain them. My rationale is for the protection of clients, especially if they have a reaction or side effect and despite my detailed reasons above I still think this would not be adequately managed by a BT.
As for any comments regarding it being a waste of money training to be a nurse then doing cosmetics, if they went straight into this then yes. I still work full time in the NHS and I love every minute of it and would never give it up no matter how successful the business became. Nurses should not be criticised for wanting a better lifestyle and wanting to build up their own business.
Apologies again, I was not 'doing down' anyones achievements.
BotoxBoy
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more! There is no greater feeling than improving a clients self esteem after they come to me for a problem area such as the facial asymmetry you mention. That beaming smile as they walk in for their two week review appointment and tell me stories of how much more confident they feel and how people have said how well they are looking. Just because they are not 'ill' in the traditional sense does not make this role any less worthy.
It is a similar feeling to stabilising a patient with septicaemia in the resus room and putting their loved ones feelings at ease when telling them the good news. I am doing a service in both elements of my jobs and if it was just about money, I would have quit the NHS a long time ago!
Bonkers
Well-Known Member
I have no issues that nurses work in cosmetic medicine but shouldn't they work in that as a speciality Rather than to like I say work full time in the nhs and then go out earning money on the side injecting Botox this really is just my opinion that as pointed out above by another poster that The government trains nurses who then trot off and start offering Botox and staring that Doctors know nothing and they know much more regarding prescribing etc if that's the case why even bother to train to be a doctor?
Anyway I can't be bothered to comment any further clearly I have no degree in science and any degree I do have is rubbish
Anyway I can't be bothered to comment any further clearly I have no degree in science and any degree I do have is rubbish
BotoxBoy
Well-Known Member
Oh dear, it's a shame you can't address the points in an appropriate way. So your issue is with nurses earning extra money in their own time then?
I'm also unsure where you found in any of my posts that doctors know 'nothing'. When they qualify they know very little about INJECTING which has been the consistent theme of my posts. They are trained by nurses yet in your version of events you wouldn't trust a nurse to inject, you'd trust a doctor, who has less injecting experience and has in fact been trained BY a nurse to inject you. Its the reverse of logic.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but if it's an illogical one be prepared to be challenged.
Tinxy
Well-Known Member
As someone who knows several doctors, nurses & pharmacist in one of Londons largest hospitals... You do NOT want to know the amount of lives put at risk by "doctors" prescribing the wrong thing!
Injections - 2 of my school chums are doctors - one is now a surgeon - would I want either of them injecting me? NO!!!!
They're great doctors - but nurses are the ones taking bloods and injecting in 99 of 100 cases. I think the only needle near me not put in by a nurse was when I was rushed to hospital severely dehydrated during pregnancy... and she took her time putting it in and nearly gave up before calling the nurse in to do it!
I would say that I wouldn't let just ANY nurse inject my face - I would want to see their work, know they were clean etc and that they had experience. Then again I'd apply the same criteria to a doctor
I WOULD rather deal with someone specializing in one area like Adam does - I don't want my face in the hands of a jack of all trades and master of none
Injections - 2 of my school chums are doctors - one is now a surgeon - would I want either of them injecting me? NO!!!!
They're great doctors - but nurses are the ones taking bloods and injecting in 99 of 100 cases. I think the only needle near me not put in by a nurse was when I was rushed to hospital severely dehydrated during pregnancy... and she took her time putting it in and nearly gave up before calling the nurse in to do it! I would say that I wouldn't let just ANY nurse inject my face - I would want to see their work, know they were clean etc and that they had experience. Then again I'd apply the same criteria to a doctor
I WOULD rather deal with someone specializing in one area like Adam does - I don't want my face in the hands of a jack of all trades and master of none
last week my client and myself were bawling our eyes out in the treatment room. She had a large dent in her forehead from an injury sustained as a child (she is now in her 50's). All her life she had been told there was no treatment. I assessed her, discussed filler and concluded that it was appropriate to treat. This dent was pretty noticeable!
The degree of correction was amazing (if I say so myself). The impact for her was huge. We were just hugging and crying! She had lived for almost 50 years conscious of her disfigurement! (Ssshhhh - don't tell anyone, I actually didn't charge her). That kind of treatment makes my job worthwhile. It's times like that I love my job.
We are passionate about our profession, and rightly so. I am proud of what I do, as are you - and so you should be.
Just one of the many reasons I defend my profession and all that aesthetic medicine entails.
BotoxBoy
Well-Known Member
It just bugs me when people post 'Dr's, surgeons but not nurses' with obviously NO idea of what training and experience you need as a baseline before you even think of doing aesthetics.
What a great story!
I had a young client, 23, who is a teacher come in. She had deep lines on her forehead due to being a massive sunbed fan when she was 16. She came in all shy, meek and mild and asked about the treatment options.
I discussed botox as the best option and asked her to think about it. She came back a week later for treatment and at her two week review she came bounding in with a smile on her face and said she was more confident with the kids at school and her colleagues had commented.
At face value, people sometimes recoil in horror at a 23 year old having botox, but if it is to correct something they are so self conscious about it affects their life then this can only be a positive thing. If she walked in asking to 'look younger' I most certainly would turn her away.
As for doctors, most of my best friends are doctors all the way from training, just qualified to top consultants and surgeons and they readily admit to me their knowledge of injections and particularly worryingly prescribing is seriously lacking. But more so than this, they are reassured that they can RELY on their nurse colleagues to help them, tell them the correct dose, go with them when they administer a medicine etc and yet throw away comments on here saying nurses shouldn't be allowed to even do it! It's bizarre...
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