Can I use Gelish top coat instead over Shellac?

[NancySyd]

I'm glad the OP got their answer: if color is coming off, the topcoat isn't fully covering the color coat. As long as she is using the CND UV Lamp, that's a fact.

I am alarmed that there is a large amount of misinformation in this thread though, and feel compelled to address it.
Here is a fact: CND Shellac is positioned as a power polish for a SCIENTIFIC REASON. Not a marketing scheme. What's listed on the MSDS is irrelevant unless you personally know the exact process, chemical amounts, and testing protocols that go into creating CND Shellac. Yes, it has some of the same properties as other UV cured polishes. But there are HUGE differences in the actual composition of Shellac.
For example, if you paint Shellac onto a nail, and then skip curing, the solvents begin to evaporate. It won't fully cure on its own, but it will get set enough that you can not manipulate it with your brush without streaking it. Another fact: CND Shellac won't cure fully in a good deal of other manufacturers lamps, including the Gelish lamp. I've tried it with a nail pro, it was a fail.
CND Shellac is formulated to be applied to the nail, and removed without ANY filing or damage. Really! This is because most "gel polishes" are merely hard gel that's been diffused, with pigment added to it. CND Shellac is NOT a hard gel. It's a new formulation in its own class, and no other product behaves exactly like it.
Another huge difference is e CND UV Lamp itself- the UV Output of the lamp is higher and steadier than almost every other lamp in the market. This is also a fact. If Shellac is just another "gel lacquer," it would have a large amount of photo initiators to make the gel cure. Shellac does not have a high level of these, and is also 3-free and hypoallergenic.

MSDS Sheets alone do not give enough information to come to a fact-based scientific conclusion, and is designed to provide both workers and emergency personnel with the proper procedures for handling or working with a particular substance. And that is all.

And while we are a "little guy," our R&D team is supported by none other than Doug Schoon, so I think it's safe to say we can play ball with any of the big guys

This has definitely been a thought provoking thread! And I appreciate reading each and every response- we are so blessed to be in this industry NOW as opposed to 30 years ago

I think this muddies the water. The argument is not, and has never been, that Shellac is the same as other gel polishes. It is not. Each one is unique. But CND Shellac falls into a broad category called gel polishes (not hard gel) for a scientific reason - it is an acrylate that contains olimers and polymers that are set by exposure to a specific range of UV light. Gel polishes exist along a spectrum from more solvent-based to 100% pure gel, but they are all still gel polish/lacquer. It you go back to Doug Schoon's response to this months earlier, he concedes this point, comparing it to a cake. To continue Doug's analogy. Shellac is an Angel food cake, OPI is a Devil's Food, Gelish a yellow cake. They have different ingredients, but contain the essential ingredients that make it a cake and serve the same function. All of the attributes (save on, hypoallergenic) claimed for Shellac can be claimed by other gel polishes. It is a broad category and Shellac exists at one end of it and others and the other end. But to say it is not a gel polish flies in the face of the facts. It that changes with a new classification, then we can reassess, but for now, it is a gel lacquer.

All of that said, the fact that it is a gel polish is not a diminution of Shellac. The categorization is not made to demean Shellac. It is an excellent, innovative product made with the backing of an excellent R&D division and with spectacular customer support - at $62m, not a little guy but a major player! But it exists within a broader category and recognizing that is part of our training and education as professionals.

 

[mum]

I think this muddies the water. The argument is not, and has never been, that Shellac is the same as other gel polishes. It is not. Each one is unique. But CND Shellac falls into a broad category called gel polishes (not hard gel) for a scientific reason - it is an acrylate that contains olimers and polymers that are set by exposure to a specific range of UV light. Gel polishes exist along a spectrum from more solvent-based to 100% pure gel, but they are all still gel polish/lacquer. It you go back to Doug Schoon's response to this months earlier, he concedes this point, comparing it to a cake. To continue Doug's analogy. Shellac is an Angel food cake, OPI is a Devil's Food, Gelish a yellow cake. They have different ingredients, but contain the essential ingredients that make it a cake and serve the same function. All of the attributes (save on, hypoallergenic) claimed for Shellac can be claimed by other gel polishes. It is a broad category and Shellac exists at one end of it and others and the other end. But to say it is not a gel polish flies in the face of the facts. It that changes with a new classification, then we can reassess, but for now, it is a gel lacquer.

All of that said, the fact that it is a gel polish is not a diminution of Shellac. The categorization is not made to demean Shellac. It is an excellent, innovative product made with the backing of an excellent R&D division and with spectacular customer support - at $62m, not a little guy but a major player! But it exists within a broader category and recognizing that is part of our training and education as professionals.

i really do not understand why you have such an issue with acknowledging that Shellac is different from Gellish! (the start of this thread and my opinion still stands that they should not be mixed). If the differences within a 'broad band' category were not identified for those that have that level of interest we would still be working with 'acrylics'! Now that is a bigger cake that has many slices.

To not be able to differentiate between all of these would mean that the 100's of questions about light cured L&P, 'gel powder', and on and on would go unanswered. It is important to understand the details so the bigger pictures make sense.

Now, to say that each gel polish is unique is stretching my belief! We all know that is far from the case. There maybe some colours unique to some brands but the base formulation of many, many brands?

I understand your broad category explanation but I believe any 'broad category' needs some definition within it. Either end of that spectrum (in your definition of Shellac at one end and Gelish at the other) does not mean that the differences do not need a level of understanding and it especially does not mean that useful information 'muddies the waters'. In fact the opposite, it make it all become clearer.

 

[HeatherDavis]

Shellac vs. Gel Polish - YouTube

Here is more information.

 

[mum]

Shellac vs. Gel Polish - YouTube

Here is more information.

A great video demonstrating the key differences between Shellac and gel polish. From this it is clear that the solvents play an important role and need to evaporate. A gel polish top coat would prevent this.

Interestingly, it also shows how both types of systems release, which, if you've used both, will have been noticeable: Shellac flakes and gel polish expands (seen as the layers curling up at the edges)

 

[Kele Lee]

Hi folks
I started ready this because I thinking about to try IBD JGP, but decided to login to explain somethings I learned some time a go and hope it explain without make everyone more :evil: (I can`t understand why peoples got so stress about this type of things).

I am a Nail Tech from Japan but also in Brazil and, in the moment, I am moved to USA and I will start a Cosmetology school soon...
I am trained with Calgel by Moga Brook Japan and also CND Shellac trained... But before I am fail in love for the Nail industry I am worked and graduated in other professional area and it made me learn a lot o sales and marketing (lessons for life) :lol: I am not tracing to be "special" to saying all this but just explaining my knowledge and where I come from with my "ideas and experiences" .

About the CND being or not a gel and mix or not with Gelish to/base.
- As I was trained with CND Japan I asked a lot of question (because in fact, some times the "rules and instructions are only marketing based and not chemical reasonable, for ex. I cure Calgel with the CND lamp because what it needs to be cure is a UV light less than 36 so CND lamp is enough to cure Calgel and more power on the lamp not cause any ham on the gel it self in this case) and a question I asked is about why the CND need to be cured with the CND lamp only and the explanation was simple and make completely sense, because CND shellac, YES IT IS UNDER A CATEGORY OF ONE TYPE O GEL, BUT IT IS NOT ONLY GEL IT IS A HYBRID TYPE CHEMICAL USE SOME OF THE REGULAR GEL POLISH COMPONENTS AND OTHER COMPONENTS FROM POLISH, exactly because this mix in the formula the CND Lamp have a fan on it, easily speaking, it needs the air (the fan wind) and the UV 36 to cure... So basically, if you find or construct a UV lamp 36w with a equivalent fan on it you should be able to dry your CND SHELLAC without problem (Sorry for the Geeks who will not agree but fact is fact and electrical engineer and mechanic are also evolved in the Nail Industry so we can`t just take in consideration brand marketing team and Chemistry books like the one made by Schoon, Douglas... I think we need to see a whole picture before pick sides...) I believe the explanation I have about the CND Shellac polish chemical composition and cure needs because it was explained by the CND trainer but in Japan the CND is represented from a company called Takara, who also represent many other gel brands in Japan, so they do not are exclusively CND and I think (in the sales way) they are interested to sell so they will not sabotage the other brands they have...

So in resume folks, I strongly believe CND Shellac is not made as a commun gel polish, it is mix with other components from a regular nail polish and so I think it can`t be used with other gels because exactly because it is lighter than the others, chemically speaking, if you use a gelish on top of it you will make the gel (what is heavy) seal the shellac underneath and it will not let the bottom (the sehllac) polish parts dry, what can cause the lift and etc... (like what happening with a regular nail polish if you use a gel top coat, of course if you wait 24h for the regular polish dry and after so apply a gel top coat it will not do any problem, but nobody will make a client back to a salon after a day to do it so)
As Gelish base and top coat I strongly agree about it can be used with any SOG because all SOG are basically the same (made from acrylic) and what differ in all of than is the pigmentation quality and products used on the "recipe" of each brand (it`s like make a chocolate cake, basically everyone knows but my cake test different than yours)...

For end, CND Shellac is under the category of SOG because it is part gel, but not fully gel, but as it need to have a category it is the gel a better place for it, other hand Gelish is a gel, pure SOG and so (it explain why we need to file a little the shine top of it, because gels are very strongly even against acetone, different than regular nail polish).


:Grope:I hope it help, sorry about my English, write still a challenge for me (I am better in speak) and again, I think no have any reason for peoples get mad about brands and technicians, every brand, county and place have different ways, not exactly wrong, just new or lees good... What I like to do is, same I said, see the whole picture... A lot of technicians comment about "do not mix brands because the harmful chemicals and bla bla bla" but are it always correct? Do you (I mean in general) know what it means? I do not think everyone really realize it but we mix chemicals and products all day long in many ways, we also ingest different types products (when we eat for example), when we use a brand "A" tooth past and a brand "B" mouth wash (and so far I do not think everyone still live after mix it), I really think take a gel from brand "A" in not cure stage and mix in a bowl with gel with brand "B" and after apply own could gave a reaction, but I do not agree with the idea if I apply the gel brand "A" in the correct way, and in the finish I diced (after properly cure it) to wipe it and use a other brand of gel color could gave any harm or problem (maybe if the client have a allergy of some of the components of one of the brands but not because I used both, no make sense because it is cured, in fact if is really like some geeks say, we should so not to use any type of gel polish because we do not know all the chemical reactions in the earth and could end "losing our fingers" when we touch a soup in the shower or a new hand cream..)... But it is just what I think, I guess both sides have some good points but let`s face we can`t to take everything as a 100%, some times have exceptions as all in life have...

Good luck guys and hope everyone get less stress...:Scared:

 

[Panoramic]

Jesus! Will you lot chill!

There is more to life than discussing the CND vs. Any gel polish argument.

If you mix gels then its your own doing. If it works well done if not then dont do it again.

End of.

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[s.scaldwell]

Just remember if you mix products you might not get as long out of them as you would using the same product range also look if your insurance covers you

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