Client had powder gel?

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I do not believe now and have never believed that nail bars (discount or NSS or otherwise) are destroying the nail industry ... that is nonsense. If anything, the prevalence of low standards will highlight those with better standards .. but the way to combat low standards is to higher them through education.
 
I do not believe now and have never believed that nail bars (discount or NSS or otherwise) are destroying the nail industry ... that is nonsense. If anything, the prevalence of low standards will highlight those with better standards .. but the way to combat low standards is to higher them through education.

I would like to add to this.

The SEA nails tachnicians I have seen in my classes are highly skilled - they just don't have the theory knowledge, which I am helping them by eliminating the language barriers and cultural differences.

If we all opened our minds a little more, embrace and encourage the SEA salons to seek education. With their kind of skills, they could possibly push the industry to a much higher standard.

What this means, is that we will ALL have to improve ourselves to catch up and the greatest thing about that is that there will no longer be any room for the real 'messers' in the industry.

What is left is the best of the best.
Now, How is THAT not good for our industry..?
 
It is NOT impossible for them to not know the difference between L+P and gel. I know that for sure because I have spent the time getting to know them, allowed them to speak up for themselves and teaching them.

OK, so in my local NSS they apply L&P and charge more when you ask for gel or fibreglass. The technician knows they are doing exactly the same thing, of course they know. So are you saying that they think every system (no matter what it is called) is the same?? If so, why do they charge more if the client asks for gel or fibreglass? Why do they have three prices if they don't know its different?

I totally understand what you are saying that training and education for the NSS is the way forward, but I don't think you can defend that at the moment many of them are knowingly and deliberately conning the public.

I see what Kasik is saying, there is a great marketing opportunity for CND and I understand this. Without causing offense (and please take this the right way), CND need to be careful, it is a high end product. Wilkinsons and ASDA probably sell more cosmetics than John Lewis or Harrods, but you do not see Clarins or Clinique in Wilkinsons or ASDA for a reason.
 
I see what Kasik is saying, there is a great marketing opportunity for CND and I understand this. Without causing offense (and please take this the right way), CND need to be careful, it is a high end product. Wilkinsons and ASDA probably sell more cosmetics than John Lewis or Harrods, but you do not see Clarins or Clinique in Wilkinsons or ASDA for a reason.

CND are always careful and only sell to professionals no matter what their race. Are you saying Lucy that we should now discriminate as to which ethnic group is allowed to buy because you are lumping them all in the "low end" category? (That really shows that you are pretty unaware of what is going on in the industry as a whole. Watch Anna's column which will be regularly and monthly in Scratch to learn more.) "Being careful" would entail good training with no discrimination. We expect the high end SEA technicians will be the ones with the interest in the same way that it is the high end non Asian technicians who have the interest.

I think that there can be nothing negative about having a talented education ambassador/s who speak a language that allows perfect communication where there was none before, to people who want and are seeking to learn and to fill in the gaps in their knowledge and to raise their game, no matter where they come from.

As for knowingly being dishonest about what one is using ... Maybe some are, but many genuinely are not; you cannot generalise because of what a salon near you is doing. I would say there are equally as many non Asian technicians being dishonest saying they are using Shellac when they are not, mixing different systems and not giving a synergistic service etc etc; these things have always gone on across the board. There are Equally as many non-Asian technicians who do bad work and terrible damage to clients nails using hand files and drills ... Because they lack the education to do otherwise.
 
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Are you saying Lucy that we should now discriminate as to which ethnic group is allowed to buy because you are lumping them all in the "low end" category?

Clearly, I am not saying that. Like I said before, you are the only person in this thread who is making it about race. Don't forget Geeg, you have no idea what ethnic group I fall into. I (and others in this thread) have been talking about low end, high client turnover salons that all too often ruin natural nails with efiles and deceive clients with the product. Nothing more. This discussion has nothing to do with race.
 
Clearly, I am not saying that. Like I said before, you are the only person in this thread who is making it about race. Don't forget Geeg, you have no idea what ethnic group I fall into. I (and others in this thread) have been talking about low end, high client turnover salons that all too often ruin natural nails with efiles and deceive clients with the product. Nothing more. This discussion has nothing to do with race.

I thought the discussion had turned to Anna's article re SEA of Change (SEA referring to South East Asian) and CND becoming involved through Anna in that SEA of change .... then you say be careful and don't go low end etc etc. Seems fairly obvious that maybe more than I might misinterpret that remark even if it was innocently made.

One can hardy discuss Anna's article without race coming into it :D .. and I am not the only one who has mentioned it and why shouldn't it be mentioned anyway? Mentioning race and being a racist are 2 different things.

I do not know your ethnic background and I don't really care what it is. It is of no importance in this discussion other than the fact that it happens to be the central area of focus for Anna Lee (*flower*).

Tell me, the salon that you refer to as your local NSS ... is it Chinese/vietnamese who run it?? And why exactly is it an NSS in your opinion? Is it because they use powder gel or charge different prices for what you say is the same thing? Is it because they use MMA, ruin nails or carry out unhygenic services? What exactly makes it NSS in your opinion?
 
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The discussion started with a question about "powder gel".

I would call my local NSS such because
a) It is filthy dirty
b) They use unlabeled products
c) They use BlueSky Shellac and Gelish
d) They ruin natural nails with efiles before applying L&P
e) They deliberately mislead clients on the product they provide i.e. providing L&P charging more and saying its gel or fibreglass
f) They appear to sanitize nothing
g) I have heard they sometimes remove nails with pliers
 
OK, so in my local NSS they apply L&P and charge more when you ask for gel or fibreglass. The technician knows they are doing exactly the same thing, of course they know. So are you saying that they think every system (no matter what it is called) is the same?? If so, why do they charge more if the client asks for gel or fibreglass? Why do they have three prices if they don't know its different?

I've already explained this.

The manufactures are telling these salons that the powder they are buying is a special 'gel powder'. They don't understand why it is and they are just selling it according to what they are told. It brings them business so they don't feel the need to question it.

Why are you so adamant that everybody knows as much as you...?
Why can you not just accept that there are others out there who has little knowledge..?

I totally understand what you are saying that training and education for the NSS is the way forward, but I don't think you can defend that at the moment many of them are knowingly and deliberately conning the public.

I will continue to defend them and I do it based on FACTS that I have discovered.

I defend on the basis that in last 6 months I have trained 75 SEA nail technicians and been in contact with 50 different salons. Your opinions, however, is just your opinions, what you read on here and based on the few salons you have seen on your high street.

You don't have to be very clever to know whose information is more accurate.

I see what Kasik is saying, there is a great marketing opportunity for CND and I understand this. Without causing offense (and please take this the right way), CND need to be careful, it is a high end product. Wilkinsons and ASDA probably sell more cosmetics than John Lewis or Harrods, but you do not see Clarins or Clinique in Wilkinsons or ASDA for a reason.

This is a bad example.

All the brands and products you have mentioned here have already an image, market place and price. Each of them are one company and run exactly the same way.

SEA salons, although one community, are owned and run by different types of people from different background. What we experience as a low end salon in one is not true in another.

CND does not have to 'be careful' of anything, this special programme has been discussed, investigated and discussed again before it was released.

And just to let you all know that I really do know what I am talking about, here are a few pictures from the salons of the SEA students that I have been teaching.

High end or low end..? Take a look with your own eyes and you decide.
 

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So you see...?

What you have seen and have HEARD in your local high street is not all true.

I bet you haven't seen a SEA salon looking like these...?

Take a good look at the photos posted and now tell me that these salons DO NOT deserve to provide Shellac as a service.
 
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Really interested in this, perhaps we should have a new topic as this is fairly off the topic of the OPs question :p

To me, NSS means non-standard salon i.e. a salon that doesn't meet/follow standards e.g. poor hygiene, lack of education, no insurance, poor care of the natural nail etc etc etc.

Just to clarify, there is a NSS in a high-end health spa near me. I paid £60 for the pleasure of cut eponychiums, monomer covered fingers and the metal tools looked a bit suspect. (This was before I wanted to be a nail professional so I didn't know anything, otherwise I would have known to leave ASAP).

Everybody was English. Doesn't mean it wasn't an NSS. The nail pro who does my Shellac is from Vietnam, she uses the full system properly, she gives me correct aftercare information, she really knows her stuff. I have no ethnical hang ups. Anybody of any ethnic background can give a good service, equally anybody can give a bad or even dangerous service!

In my eyes (and in the eyes of the public who I've talked to who know Creative/CND), CND is a very high quality, premium product and so deserves premium pricing.

What I think Lucy might be concerned about is if the salons that CND are educating (which in my opinion is fab, go CND!) start using CND products, but charge low prices, would this devalue the brand? We're always on about how to price Shellac. Under £20 is a massive no-no, and one of the primary reasons stated is that Shellac & the service is worth it and not to devalue the Shellac / CND brand.

I think that the SEA Education is amazing. It's so proactive and will do wonders for the industry. I am initially worried about public perceptions of the brand changing as a result, should I be?

For arguments sake, lets say a salon was a SEA NSS (let me just clarify that I do not feel these terms are mutually inclusive). A member of the public gets their nails done, they get trashed and then the MOP now has a negative view of that salon. The public may not know about the SEA Education and so may assume the salon is continuing as it always has. The MOP sees that the salon now uses CND. Would this not make them automatically think CND was a bad/cheap brand? This is assuming they don't know CND in the first place.

Would they think that if I'm using CND, I'm using a bad product? So the chance of them coming to me might decrease because of this? Am I reading too much into this? Do the public really care that much?

Really interested to hear more of your views Geeg & *flower*, it's amazing being able to get the informed, inside scoop. I love this forum, and I love you guys! You really are an inspiration (but you don't need me to tell you that!).
 
Wow *flower*, those salons look gorgeous.
 
For arguments sake, lets say a salon was a SEA NSS (let me just clarify that I do not feel these terms are mutually inclusive). A member of the public gets their nails done, they get trashed and then the MOP now has a negative view of that salon. The public may not know about the SEA Education and so may assume the salon is continuing as it always has. The MOP sees that the salon now uses CND. Would this not make them automatically think CND was a bad/cheap brand? This is assuming they don't know CND in the first place.

Hi hun

I think the point is it doesnt matter where or whom you go to anyone can misuse products. There are enough people not following shellac protocal as it is its up to us to who use the correct protocal to educate mop. Thats regardless of whether or not youve been through the sea programme or otherwise or whether or not the public is aware of the programmes courses available to everyone.

Hope that makes sense lol!! X x x
 
I absolutely agree that the salons you have shown look fab. If this can be replicated up and down the country it would be amazing. Clearly the pictures you have shown do not represent what most of us see in our High Streets at the moment. Like I said before, good luck with the project, the mindset and previous experiences of the public might be your greatest challenge.

I was asked to describe what I see in my High Street that makes me call it an NSS. What I have seen and heard about my local is true, obviously it may not be the same for all, I never implied that.
 
Beautiful salon.I have been reading this thread and thought I would add something here.

How many threads on SG have we read about a salon being dirty,producing bad nails,damaging nails,using fake products,no sanitation.trust me that these threads are not of a certain ethnic group at all these threads have been about English salons.(I'm bot being racist by saying this just trying to put a point across)

I have been in many salons run by English people and have walked straight out again shocking and disgusting.

As has already been said that SEA salons are taking the time to educate and better themselves I guarantee you that English therapists that are doing things wrong will not better themselves because so much bad talk goes on with the sea salons and they will get away with it.

Sea technicians are very talented and I tell you what with there skill and the education we best watch out lol there skill is amazing.

That's my imput.xx
 
Sea technicians are very talented and I tell you what with there skill and the education we best watch out lol there skill is amazing.

Very much heart this colleen :)
 
Hi hun

I think the point is it doesnt matter where or whom you go to anyone can misuse products. There are enough people not following shellac protocal as it is its up to us to who use the correct protocal to educate mop. Thats regardless of whether or not youve been through the sea programme or otherwise.

Hope that makes sense lol!! X x x

Hey,

Yeah, I do understand that, I went into 5 salons (yes 5!!) before I found one that did it properly. All what we'd think of as 'regular' nail salons. I did state that anybody could do a good or a bad job in my post so that's not what I do not understand.

Okay, that's great, I was just concerned about the assumptions of the public. Xxx
 
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Hey,

Yeah, I do understand that, I went into 5 salons (yes 5!!) before I found one that did it properly. All what we'd think of as 'regular' nail salons. I did state that anybody could do a good or a bad job in my post so that's not that I don't understand.

Okay, that's great, I was just concerned about the assumptions of the public. Xxx


Sorry hun i should have also quoted your paragraph below then id have made more sense lmao! im rubbish at explaining what i mean ;)

I was just trying to say that i dont think it would change the publics opinion and i dont think youd see a decrease in clients coming to you. Cnd are not only supplying but educating techs in their sea programme, just as they do with everyone else, sadly you still get rogue techs not following procedure but it hasnt affected shellacs demand. Equally there are a lot of switched on clients, diehard shellac wearers and great techs that champion shellac for what it is and how it is :)

X x x

As an aside i love the sea programme; as well as good practice, education and trying to change the industry i think and hope it will go a long way to us all working alongside each other rather than an us and them situation :)
 
On the contrary .. to be honest, you should be glad that your thread has prompted a good discussion. Sit back and enjoy it.

Well Geeg you was right this thread has differently ended up been a good discussion :) x
 
I absolutely agree that the salons you have shown look fab. If this can be replicated up and down the country it would be amazing. Clearly the pictures you have shown do not represent what most of us see in our High Streets at the moment. Like I said before, good luck with the project, the mindset and previous experiences of the public might be your greatest challenge.

I was asked to describe what I see in my High Street that makes me call it an NSS. What I have seen and heard about my local is true, obviously it may not be the same for all, I never implied that.

Thank you VERY much Lucy for your gracious comments.

When I first agreed to do this project, I knew I have a huge challenge in my hands. But I will continue to do what I am doing in hopes to change and help as many SEA salons and nail professional out there as possible.

It is correct that not everyone is going to buy into my ideas. But if I change even just 1 salon, then that is one less NSS salon in our industry.

For those of you who are worried about how the Shellac brand is going to be affected. Happyfeet is correct in saying that CND are not doing anything different to what they are doing now. Just because I am organising Shellac classes for the SEA, it doesn't mean I am going to dish out certificates left, right and centre.

CND are still only supplying shellac to salons who have manicure and pedicure certificates, and I am giving Shellac certificates ONLY to those who have attended my Shellac course. The only difference is, that I am organising special SEA classes for those who find language and cultural differences a problem.

This is absoutely not just a marketing plan. Education has always been the key element at CND. CND has won more awards for education than any other company in the industry and I am a part of team. So it is not a surprise that CND has now decided to provide education to a sector of the market which has been ignored for a very long time.


Please everyone, give them a chance.
They are improving and moving forward.
We should all encourage them and welcome them into our world of nails.
 
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Hi guys,
I realize this post is over a year old but please forgive me as my account is only a few days old!

There is a friend of my family who owns and runs a NSS and I once questioned her about this powder gel she was offering to clients. I asked her why she didn't offer liquid gel and her response was "clients don't know what the difference is. I give them clear L & P with UV gel top coat and I say it's gel nails"

Huhhhhhh?!?!?! Is still my reaction.. Very shocked as to how nail techs can not feel guilty doing this. And they also charge heaps more for these powder gel nails!

I'm not saying that all places that offer powder gel nails do this, I'm just telling a story of a place I know :) who gives acrylic nails instead of gel nails intentionally, not because their supplier convinced them to try something new
 

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