CND UV lamps - solution may not agree with everyone

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I'm afraid this thread just demonstrates all that is wrong with this industry! So many have, what is classed, as an 'opinion' yet should be based on fact.

The facts are all there for everyone to learn read and understand. But then opinions that suit individuals for whatever reason (lack of understanding, lack of funds, axe to grind) take over and suddenly become 'facts'. So many are 'experts' and take exception to anyone that has a differing 'opinion' or information that is based on facts. Then there are those that offer no constructive comment and just want to stir things up.

Virtually all the problems with the industry are demonstrated in this one thread!

I sometimes wonder why I continue to support it and not just concentrate on what earns me money! Because, after all, that is why we work: to earn money. But some of us take a pride in our industry and are willing to voluntarily help to make it better. I wonder how many with such strong 'opinions' give time for no recompense to support, what could be, an amazing industry and career for so many?
 
The way I understand these threads are:
CND say that shellac cures in their lamp.
They probably havent tested it in other branded lamps so cannot guarantee a full cure.
Why would they want to test it in another brands lamp? It would cost a lot of money to test if the shellac has cured completely (not by eye) and what would they gain from it? They are a business and like us, wouldnt unnecessarily waste money.
If CND said 'yeah use any 36W lamp' and your client had a reaction, who would be responsible? The finger would be pointed at cnd who cannot possibly test every uv lamp on the market.
So they made one, the tested this one and can safely tell you that this one, will cure cnd shellac, it has been researched and proven to cure cnd shellac so use it.
As a system I dont find the shellac starter kit expensive at all and if you add up the price of the items in the kit individually then the lamp is peanuts.

I know there is a problem with the lamp stock at the moment but I believe there is not much more of a wait, but reading these threads everyday makes a day seem like a week.
Im also waiting for a new lamp but ive a feeeling that if I start kicking, screaming and paddying, that it still wont come any quicker, so ill just wait patiently x

Sent from my GT-I9505 using SalonGeek mobile app
 
mum said:
I'm afraid this thread just demonstrates all that is wrong with this industry! So many have, what is classed, as an 'opinion' yet should be based on fact.

The facts are all there for everyone to learn read and understand. But then opinions that suit individuals for whatever reason (lack of understanding, lack of funds, axe to grind) take over and suddenly become 'facts'. So many are 'experts' and take exception to anyone that has a differing 'opinion' or information that is based on facts. Then there are those that offer no constructive comment and just want to stir things up.

Virtually all the problems with the industry are demonstrated in this one thread!

I sometimes wonder why I continue to support it and not just concentrate on what earns me money! Because, after all, that is why we work: to earn money. But some of us take a pride in our industry and are willing to voluntarily help to make it better. I wonder how many with such strong 'opinions' give time for no recompense to support, what could be, an amazing industry and career for so many?
Click to expand...

All techs should take time to read this post from Marian, it is sadly accurate, informative and shows how we can easily destroy our own industry through our unprofessional actions and opinions. I would like a future in this industry, as I'm sure others would so please, let us act like educated professionals.

On a separate note, as it seems to keep coming up in this thread time and time again, anyone who is unsure of the "does one lamp cure all products?" issue, please take the time, and the desire to protect your professional future and clients' health, and read Doug Schoon's book "Nail Structure and Product Chemistry". If you cannot afford the book, then Doug has plenty of free updates online if you google. This post gives a simple idea with regards to UV lamps and output. If you wish to know more scientific information with regards to the wavelength output of lamps and the peak curing point for photo initiators of certain products then that information is also available if you ask in the right places. Just a quick note though the wattage of a lamp eg. 36watt is the electrical power it takes to work, not the UV output of the UV bulbs and how they cure product. Schoon Scientific - Doug Schoon, scientist and nail industry expert provides educational articles xxxx
 
lilly said:
Actually I'm going to delete my comment as I feel this will end up as an argument and life is too short and too much fun to argue ! But I still stand by the fact that if using a non system lamp was sooo worry some and caused sooo many allergic reactions then we would hear much more about it, on here and through the media, if a company can make money, ANY company, by saying you MUST use our lamp then good on them ! Business is business. Have a good evening all, what's left of it anyway ! X
Click to expand...

Exactly. You just have to go to "show us your set ups" thread to see the uv lamps bought off ebay etc


Surrey Girl through and through x
 
lilly said:
Of course I understand that it makes sense, I have been long enough in the buisness !!! But what I'm saying is if your that concerned you wouldn't take ANY risk would you,, not even One set of nails ! I'm not just on about the cnd lamp gate thing I'm talking generally about any system.
Click to expand...

Except, there can never be no risk. There is always a risk interacting with the public even when using the system correctly. It is all about managing and minimising and to what level you are comfortable.

Thank god I am not in the situation of some in this crisis but I personally I would rather invest minimally in another brand to carry through the period, but if I could not afford to do that I would find the best alternative lamp, double cure, explain to my clients and limit to say x2 treatments each. To me that is an acceptable increase in the level of risk of doing business, but if the option was there to reduce the level of risk (ie the correct lamp is now available) I would absolutely take that option and reduce my risk. Especially as there is virtually no cost (or relatively little cost) to reduce the risk. Does that make sense?
 
Panoramic said:
Exactly. You just have to go to "show us your set ups" thread to see the uv lamps bought off ebay etc


Surrey Girl through and through x
Click to expand...

Just been through the last 10 pages of that thread as a sample, countless set ups featured CND lamps, saw 1x opi and 2x Gelish lamps. Only 1 non-brand specific lamp (pink kind!) and seemingly not used for shellac - bit presumptuous to assume it was bought off ebay too as I have seen that kind sold in Beauty trade shops and is within manufacturers guidelines for certain systems e.g. Gelish. So the assertion that many geeks are routinely using cheapo lamps against manufacturers guidelines seems baseless. Not to say there aren't out there but in any case I would do my own research and make my own decisions/evaluations and not just 'follow my friends off a cliff'
 
Sian H said:
The way I understand these threads are:
CND say that shellac cures in their lamp.
They probably havent tested it in other branded lamps so cannot guarantee a full cure.
Why would they want to test it in another brands lamp? It would cost a lot of money to test if the shellac has cured completely (not by eye) and what would they gain from it? They are a business and like us, wouldnt unnecessarily waste money.
If CND said 'yeah use any 36W lamp' and your client had a reaction, who would be responsible? The finger would be pointed at cnd who cannot possibly test every uv lamp on the market.
So they made one, the tested this one and can safely tell you that this one, will cure cnd shellac, it has been researched and proven to cure cnd shellac so use it.
As a system I dont find the shellac starter kit expensive at all and if you add up the price of the items in the kit individually then the lamp is peanuts.

I know there is a problem with the lamp stock at the moment but I believe there is not much more of a wait, but reading these threads everyday makes a day seem like a week.
Im also waiting for a new lamp but ive a feeeling that if I start kicking, screaming and paddying, that it still wont come any quicker, so ill just wait patiently x

Sent from my GT-I9505 using SalonGeek mobile app
Click to expand...

Brilliant reply ! Well explained ! X
 
Last edited:
mum said:
I'm afraid this thread just demonstrates all that is wrong with this industry! So many have, what is classed, as an 'opinion' yet should be based on fact.

The facts are all there for everyone to learn read and understand. But then opinions that suit individuals for whatever reason (lack of understanding, lack of funds, axe to grind) take over and suddenly become 'facts'. So many are 'experts' and take exception to anyone that has a differing 'opinion' or information that is based on facts. Then there are those that offer no constructive comment and just want to stir things up.

Virtually all the problems with the industry are demonstrated in this one thread!

I sometimes wonder why I continue to support it and not just concentrate on what earns me money! Because, after all, that is why we work: to earn money. But some of us take a pride in our industry and are willing to voluntarily help to make it better. I wonder how many with such strong 'opinions' give time for no recompense to support, what could be, an amazing industry and career for so many?
Click to expand...

spoken kindly xx
hi Marian, please could you point me in the direction of written facts(articles), regarding the use of uv lamps vs uv led lamps, after all this talk of risk etc (you seem to do all reaserch on facts so may be able to help point me to the right areas online )
a lot of new clients will sometimes state oh you use led is thats because it is safer (for me it was really about the speed, i had only heard a little why it is safer due to the type of uv emitted )have not looked in to it since but would like to now,

i would further like to understand factual evidence regarding the two types.

i have watched many news reports with DR's /scientist arguing gel manicures risk/saftey and the use of uv lamps the vast majority state that low risk does not mean no risk and if anything put sunscreen on and use led lamps instead as they are safer (the debate seems to be against and to air cuation on gel manicures not just with uv but with the persistent use of acetone as well for its health implications )

i would really like to be pointed in the right direction other then doug schoon regarding the articles about the 2 ladies etc (regarding the c word)

also about the uv led lamps(articles in its favor and why ) and why media DR's are saying in the news and on tv to use uv led over the uv traditional lamp (low risk does not mean no risk)


all this lamp debate has got me all concerned again about uv in general
i really would like facts please white paper etc

i hope you do not mind me asking you
thank you
 
katie d said:

spoken kindly xx
hi Marian, please could you point me in the direction of written facts(articles), regarding the use of uv lamps vs uv led lamps, after all this talk of risk etc (you seem to do all reaserch on facts so may be able to help point me to the right areas online )
a lot of new clients will sometimes state oh you use led is thats because it is safer (for me it was really about the speed, i had only heard a little why it is safer due to the type of uv emitted )have not looked in to it since but would like to now,

i would further like to understand factual evidence regarding the two types.

i have watched many news reports with DR's /scientist arguing gel manicures risk/saftey and the use of uv lamps the vast majority state that low risk does not mean no risk and if anything put sunscreen on and use led lamps instead as they are safer (the debate seems to be against and to air cuation on gel manicures not just with uv but with the persistent use of acetone as well for its health implications )

i would really like to be pointed in the right direction other then doug schoon regarding the articles about the 2 ladies etc (regarding the c word)

also about the uv led lamps(articles in its favor and why ) and why media DR's are saying in the news and on tv to use uv led over the uv traditional lamp (low risk does not mean no risk)


all this lamp debate has got me all concerned again about uv in general
i really would like facts please white paper etc

i hope you do not mind me asking you
thank you
Click to expand...

There is a report somewhere that was put together by some experts, I have read it but can't tell you where as it was a while ago, but it is very informative and easy to understand and will put your mind at ease regarding UV lamps, I'm sure Marian Newman will know how to locate it :)

Sent from my GT-I9300 using SalonGeek mobile app
 
Metamorfosis said:
There is a report somewhere that was put together by some experts, I have read it but can't tell you where as it was a while ago, but it is very informative and easy to understand and will put your mind at ease regarding UV lamps, I'm sure Marian Newman will know how to locate it :)

Sent from my GT-I9300 using SalonGeek mobile app
Click to expand...


It is this one, co-authored by one of the guys that invented the SPF rating system. Independent of any nail company and published in a peer reviewed journal. Conclusion was Nail Lamps extremely safe and level of UV light emitted less than natural daylight. i.e. as far as skin cancer goes if it's a sunny day you'd be better off putting your hand in a UV lamp!


Direct Link: Photobiological Safety Evaluation of UV Nail Lamps - Dowdy - 2013 - Photochemistry and Photobiology - Wiley Online Library
 
syncage said:
Just been through the last 10 pages of that thread as a sample, countless set ups featured CND lamps, saw 1x opi and 2x Gelish lamps. Only 1 non-brand specific lamp (pink kind!) and seemingly not used for shellac - bit presumptuous to assume it was bought off ebay too as I have seen that kind sold in Beauty trade shops and is within manufacturers guidelines for certain systems e.g. Gelish. So the assertion that many geeks are routinely using cheapo lamps against manufacturers guidelines seems baseless. Not to say there aren't out there but in any case I would do my own research and make my own decisions/evaluations and not just 'follow my friends off a cliff'
Click to expand...

I did the exact same thing but with a few extra pages and the pink lamp was the only one that stood out to me as well. Actually enjoyed that bit of reading, lots of Geeks have set them selves up in some gorgeous rooms! X
 
katie d said:

spoken kindly xx
hi Marian, please could you point me in the direction of written facts(articles), regarding the use of uv lamps vs uv led lamps, after all this talk of risk etc (you seem to do all reaserch on facts so may be able to help point me to the right areas online )
a lot of new clients will sometimes state oh you use led is thats because it is safer (for me it was really about the speed, i had only heard a little why it is safer due to the type of uv emitted )have not looked in to it since but would like to now,

i would further like to understand factual evidence regarding the two types.

i have watched many news reports with DR's /scientist arguing gel manicures risk/saftey and the use of uv lamps the vast majority state that low risk does not mean no risk and if anything put sunscreen on and use led lamps instead as they are safer (the debate seems to be against and to air cuation on gel manicures not just with uv but with the persistent use of acetone as well for its health implications )

i would really like to be pointed in the right direction other then doug schoon regarding the articles about the 2 ladies etc (regarding the c word)

also about the uv led lamps(articles in its favor and why ) and why media DR's are saying in the news and on tv to use uv led over the uv traditional lamp (low risk does not mean no risk)


all this lamp debate has got me all concerned again about uv in general
i really would like facts please white paper etc

i hope you do not mind me asking you
thank you
Click to expand...

I always read 'kindly' unless it's obviously aggressive :p

Doug is the best to read but, yes, there are research papers:
-NMC brochure ‘Do UV nail lamps emit unsafe levels of ultraviolet light?’
-Dr. Robert Sayre, inventor of the SPF rating system for sunscreen and his associate Dr. John Dowdy, Rapid Precision Testing Labs/Cordova, Tennessee.)
-Dr. Peter Gries, Group Leader of the Ultraviolet Radiation Group at the Australian Radiation Laboratory)
-Lighting Science Inc. (Phoenix, Arizona) is an independent scientific testing laboratory that specializes in the development and testing of many types of illumination devices, including those that emit UV light)
-Erica Nieuwenhuis, PhD, author of several scientific, peer- reviewed studies on the development of and risk factors for skin cancer.)

These are authors or research papers that are quoted in a very good article by Doug but if you want all the details you should read all the papers.

That should keep you busy :D

One thing everyone should understand about Doug is that every piece of info he provides comes from factual and usually independent research and not from any brand connection
 
syncage said:
It is this one, co-authored by one of the guys that invented the SPF rating system. Independent of any nail company and published in a peer reviewed journal. Conclusion was Nail Lamps extremely safe and level of UV light emitted less than natural daylight. i.e. as far as skin cancer goes if it's a sunny day you'd be better off putting your hand in a UV lamp!


Direct Link: Photobiological Safety Evaluation of UV Nail Lamps - Dowdy - 2013 - Photochemistry and Photobiology - Wiley Online Library
Click to expand...

thank you for the link i have just sent my sister a leading repository specialist in the uk a text to see if she can give me advice from perhaps her and colleagues, links white paper etc(anything) regarding all kinds of issues and concerns that have now been re awoken , i have always done my own research and never wanted to bug her as she is a very busy Dr
it's just i would prefer as many factual links as possible before asking her
her to help

thank you for the link very kind of you x
 
mum said:
I always read 'kindly' unless it's obviously aggressive :p

Doug is the best to read but, yes, there are research papers:
-NMC brochure ‘Do UV nail lamps emit unsafe levels of ultraviolet light?’
-Dr. Robert Sayre, inventor of the SPF rating system for sunscreen and his associate Dr. John Dowdy, Rapid Precision Testing Labs/Cordova, Tennessee.)
-Dr. Peter Gries, Group Leader of the Ultraviolet Radiation Group at the Australian Radiation Laboratory)
-Lighting Science Inc. (Phoenix, Arizona) is an independent scientific testing laboratory that specializes in the development and testing of many types of illumination devices, including those that emit UV light)
-Erica Nieuwenhuis, PhD, author of several scientific, peer- reviewed studies on the development of and risk factors for skin cancer.)

These are authors or research papers that are quoted in a very good article by Doug but if you want all the details you should read all the papers.

That should keep you busy :D

One thing everyone should understand about Doug is that every piece of info he provides comes from factual and usually independent research and not from any brand connection
Click to expand...


Ah thank you for the information that is very very kind of you will try and source them down and read the relevant directly from source

also pushing it sorry but whilst your hear do you have links on acetone /ema monomers/gels/gel polish again other then just Doug

out with all the booooksss again and have a look at those references (but its all good health is paramount)

it is hard sometimes to know how a person is coming across in a message
so thank you that you took it kindly

very much appreciated Marian x
my family will say why don't they all do a DVD version with this literature
they hate my head in a book lol x
 
In assuming that once the lamps are in stock... The lamp gate threads will turn into lamp gate replacement threads, if the world and his dog isn't sent a free replacement!
How s2 are gonna decide on who deserves a free replacement is beyond me. Those out of warranty are gonna holler... Loudly :(
 
katie d said:
Marian Newman (MUM) please help

Gel Manicure Side Effects (KMSP TV 3/10/2013) - YouTube

just read one of the article

what does UV traditional lamps emit
what does UV led emit

what rays are the bad ones as in one of the articles it is saying oppesit to this Dr


http://www.facialangle.com/docs/uv-nail-lamps.pdf


please help
Click to expand...


katie d. I'm sure your sister can tell you the difference between scientific peer reviewed studies (as you have been given mltiple links to) vs a daytime chat/news show featuring a 'dr' from a skincare company.

Also here is the link to the 'study' on which the news report was based. It is from 2009 and relates to just 2 patients with skin cancer on their hands with a very weak causal link suggested to previous exposure to manicures. It states though that one woman had a UV manicure every two weeks for past 15 years and the other had 8 UV lamp manicures several years ago" which is good going since the first uv nail systems were introduced I think around 2004!

JAMA Network | JAMA Dermatology | Occurrence of Nonmelanoma Skin Cancers on the Hands After UV Nail Light Exposure

The conclusion was, its a v small study and nail lamp should be looked at as a possible risk. This has been done in multiple more recent studies and can now be ruled out. katie d. this discussion would be better moved to one of the v lamp/product sticky threads where a lot if your questions and the links to do your own research has been given.
 
Last edited:
i asked while Marian was here for links i did not want to start a thread or look up old ones or where it may have gone unnoticed or private message Marian
out of the blue, i did consider that ,i asked the way i did and got lead links
which i am grateful for and have thanked Marian for pointing me in the right direction (again thank you marian )

if i have a chance to ask i will do

i do believe it has not offended

also thank you for the link


v lamp/product sticky threads ....is this for scientific leads ..?

syncage thank you sticky thread got it form naturalnails team member above UV Product Summary i had used the search bar but was not getting far and now i see the three sticky threads front page
 
Last edited:

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