CND UV lamps - solution may not agree with everyone

[mm29]

What'a the worst that could happen? Take a look below, never mind a possible law suit.

The facts are that all UV cured product 'appear to the naked eye to be cured' even when they are only 50% cured.

When products continue to be only 50% cured then over exposure, and allergy caused by un-cured reactive product can happen. It looks like this below. ... This photo was posted today on another nail forum by someone using A knock off cheap copy of a non professional product that masquerades as a well known brand and is available easily to the public.. They were asking why???

This is allergy.

This is also what happens when you repeatedly use a product that is not fully cured, but you think it 'looks' OK. No one can SEE full cure with their eyes. Which is why CND insist on using the lamp that they KNOW cures their system, CND Shellac. That, my friends, is being responsible.

Why take the chance on using a lamp that you cannot tell cures whatever it is that you are using? Is it the money to buy the right lamp? If someone sues you for causing a condition like this photo shows it could cost allot more than just buying the right lamp.

Allergy does not happen overnight ... An allergic reaction is the result of repeatedly wearing product that is not fully cured. Come on ! Use your heads. It's not worth taking the risk.

Confusing

 

[boolou]

It is definitely a result of low standard products/over exposure. Couldn't even pick up the pot of hard gel without blistering, not to mention the cheap dream products. There's nothing else that effects me in this way, and it blisters just like the photo geeg put up.

They have the guidelines in place for a reason. But everyone lives and learns and I am thankfull that it wasn't on a paying client or my arse would've been sued off.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using SalonGeek mobile app

 

[geeg]

View attachment 54254

Confusing

Read the whole thread and ALL my comments, and then come back to me if you are still confused?

 

[mm29]

Read the whole thread and ALL my comments, and then come back to me if you are still confused?

I have read them all and it contradicts what you said the other day,
So it all right to go against M I and not be insured if you have no other choice than to use an incompatible lamp but on this thread your saying you always have to use the correct lamp,
I find the whole thing strange and made my mind up who il not be training with.

 

[geeg]

I have read them all and it contradicts what you said the other day,
So it all right to go against M I and not be insured if you have no other choice than to use an incompatible lamp but on this thread your saying you always have to use the correct lamp,
I find the whole thing strange and made my mind up who il not be training with.

I'm sorry you were confused by the contradiction and you may have read the thread but you didn't really get it or what I was saying probably because you haven't done your training yet.

Is said that in the most extreme of circumstances, IF I was forced to use another lamp for a small amount of time, I would double or even triple cure with it to make certain that no client went away with under cured gel and because I might in the most extreme circumstances only see a client once or twice in this theoretical scenario of being without the perfect lamp, it would not pose a great risk if any to the client.

If a theoretical scenario that confused you has made up your mind then I guess it's made up your mind ... Just being honest. I'm not advising anyone else just saying that under the most extreme circumstances I'd have to take extreme measures but I'd do it with caution and using my head.

 

[mm29]

Well you may have read the thread but you didn't understand it or what I was saying probably because you haven't done your training yet.

Is said that in the most extreme of circumstances, IF I was forced to use another lamp for a small amount of time, I would double or even triple cure with it to make certain that no client went away with under cured gel and because I might in the most extreme circumstances only see a client once or twice in this theoretical scenario of being without the perfect lamp, it would not pose a great risk if any to the client.

If a theoretical scenario that confused you has made up your mind then I guess it's made up your mind ... Just being honest. I'm not advising anyone else just saying that under the most extreme circumstances I'd have to take extreme measures but I'd do it with caution and using my head.

I understand fully.
I think S2/CND are up **** creek at the moment and will say almost anything to try and keep their clients happy, I also believe a lot of people will not go against the grain because of who you are, however from an outsider it doesn't look very professional to advise S2/CND clients to work uninsured. I do not need to be a nail tech to understand that.
Also in the post about using an incompatible lamp you didn't mention curing times.

 

[mum]

I've kept out of this thread so far but I have to say that it is so clear how many people really do not understand their science! The demonstration of this is shocking!

Over curing may result in a service breakdown (which is why it needs to be explained to clients) but under curing has far more implications!!

Why do so many people think that just by looking at it is OK?? Why do SO many people say that 'I've used xxxx and have had no problem'???? It's unbelievable that these people think that there is not an overexposure situation brewing!

It's horrible that this situation is causing such grief but there is no piece of equipment that can be perfect 100% of the time. Sometimes **** happens! It is a manufacturers nightmare. A bigger nightmare for users.

If every technician truly understood their chemistry then they would understand how to deal with it safely in the short term.

How many have had a breakdown of electrical equipment? Who has had a washing machine break? A hair dryer blow up? It happens!! If your business relies on your equipment then why do you not have a back up? How many have found that your nail adhesive has blocked?

If you business relies on products/equipment why would you not have a back up? Yes it costs more but electrical equipment is not infallible! Sometimes it breaks!

Undercuring and overexposure is FAR more important that saving money and not investing in your business! Have a back up!

I read the posts that describe their short cuts 'because they've had no problems' and despair at the lack of understanding!

 

[Steph41]

I have said this before and will say it again !!!! I have 2 cnd lamps and I am happy for someone to borrow one if they are in real difficulty and am willing to post it. I do think this thread is possibly coming to the end of its life as we all know the problem will be sorted by CND and S2 ASAP. Please can we also respect that some of the best people in the nail industry come here and give their time for free to help and educate us and I for one am extremely grateful for that and before anyone says it I use other products along side cnd.

 

[ch-ela]

Over curing may result in a service breakdown (which is why it needs to be explained to clients) but under curing has far more implications!!

Mum, I will admit that I don't fully understand the over curing part of this. I use Gelish and I am very careful with my application and use only the correct lamp and products but are we not in danger of over curing the gels if we are doing nail art, especially if it is only on one nail?

 

[lila22]

I have said this before and will say it again !!!! I have 2 cnd lamps and I am happy for someone to borrow one if they are in real difficulty and am willing to post it. I do think this thread is possibly coming to the end of its life as we all know the problem will be sorted by CND and S2 ASAP. Please can we also respect that some of the best people in the nail industry come here and give their time for free to help and educate us and I for one am extremely grateful for that and before anyone says it I use other products along side cnd.

I said this in an earlier post! Shouldn't we be trying to help each other not put the boot in when something goes wrong!
What a lovely kind offer from yourself to, just Pitty more are not like you xx

 

[pure]

I understand fully.
I think S2/CND are up **** creek at the moment and will say almost anything to try and keep their clients happy, I also believe a lot of people will not go against the grain because of who you are, however from an outsider it doesn't look very professional to advise S2/CND clients to work uninsured. I do not need to be a nail tech to understand that.
Also in the post about using an incompatible lamp you didn't mention curing times.

I do wonder sometimes if people just see what they want to see! If you re-read properly you will she that Gigi said what SHE would do in the SHORT term, never was it said that it was ok as a permanent thing, nor did she actually advise anyone else to do it - that's their decision to make.

As for curing time she also said that she would double or even triple it. So, standard cure time for Shellac colour coat is 2 mins ... double = 4 mins triple = 6 mins

 

[Rinn]

I've kept out of this thread so far but I have to say that it is so clear how many people really do not understand their science! The demonstration of this is shocking!

Over curing may result in a service breakdown (which is why it needs to be explained to clients) but under curing has far more implications!!

Why do so many people think that just by looking at it is OK?? Why do SO many people say that 'I've used xxxx and have had no problem'???? It's unbelievable that these people think that there is not an overexposure situation brewing!

It's horrible that this situation is causing such grief but there is no piece of equipment that can be perfect 100% of the time. Sometimes **** happens! It is a manufacturers nightmare. A bigger nightmare for users.

If every technician truly understood their chemistry then they would understand how to deal with it safely in the short term.

How many have had a breakdown of electrical equipment? Who has had a washing machine break? A hair dryer blow up? It happens!! If your business relies on your equipment then why do you not have a back up? How many have found that your nail adhesive has blocked?

If you business relies on products/equipment why would you not have a back up? Yes it costs more but electrical equipment is not infallible! Sometimes it breaks!

Undercuring and overexposure is FAR more important that saving money and not investing in your business! Have a back up!

I read the posts that describe their short cuts 'because they've had no problems' and despair at the lack of understanding!

Ah sure it looks ok
What would you or Geeg or Doug Schoon or any of the other more experienced people know , your only trying to sell me a lamp .
I did a one day course 2 months ago .
:grr::grr:

 

[Mobile Manicure]

You may think the advice is free but if its given by a S2 shareholder it is not unbiased and the end goal is to sell your product to as many as possible to get your share value increased.

 

[mm29]

I do wonder sometimes if people just see what they want to see! If you re-read properly you will she that Gigi said what SHE would do in the SHORT term, never was it said that it was ok as a permanent thing, nor did she actually advise anyone else to do it - that's their decision to make.

As for curing time she also said that she would double or even triple it. So, standard cure time for Shellac colour coat is 2 mins ... double = 4 mins triple = 6 mins

Still uninsured, so for young girls that look up to her, they will think well if Gigi can so can I,

I do wonder if people just don't like rocking the boat,
It's a horrible situation for anyone to be in, I understand. However it's not very professional from a company's point of view.
I was interested in offering shellac but after reading about the vinylux problems now lamps in the space of a few months I'm reconsidering.

 

[geeg]

I understand fully.
I think S2/CND are up sh*t creek at the moment and will say almost anything to try and keep their clients happy, I also believe a lot of people will not go against the grain because of who you are, however from an outsider it doesn't look very professional to advise S2/CND clients to work uninsured. I do not need to be a nail tech to understand that.
Also in the post about using an incompatible lamp you didn't mention curing times.

I think you are being deliberately argumentative. I didn't advise anyone to do anything and I think you know that perfectly well.

In dire circumstances one makes do with caution, using the brains god gave us and taking no risks. If product is cured there Is no risk. If I had to cure the hell out of it to ensure that then I would. I would never advise anyone to work uninsured and I think you know that too. I think you are deliberately for what ever reason twisting my words to try and make it seem as if I'm saying things I am not.

My fellow nail techs know exactly what I was meaning even if you choose not to understand it. You took two posts from two different threads about two entirely different scenarios one real and one theoretical. I'm not going to explain any more. My fellow techs get what I was saying. Those who want to use my words to take pot shots at me then be my guest.

Name me any business that does not have to face challenges? **** happens sometimes and you deal with it as best you can just as is being done by CND and S2 who are in their hands and some of S2 customers.

I remember a night in my salon when I was working late at 10:00 pm. I just got my client prepped and ready to start when all the electricity went out in the building ... Absolutely pitch black dark.
H&S says no naked flames to be used near the work station. I groped my way to the kitchen grabbed two candles from the drawer and we finished the set by candlelight! What would you have done? I had plenty of towels around just in case and away we went with caution and knowing to take care. Had a good giggle about it and 15 years later she was still a client and we laughed about it many times. Whatever it takes is one of my many motos. Now by telling you that story am I advising. Nail technicians to work with candles on their desks ? No. But some times you gotta do what you've gotta do.

 

[pure]

You may think the advice is free but if its given by a S2 shareholder it is not unbiased and the end goal is to sell your product to as many as possible to get your share value increased.

That is an outrageous thing to say about someone who has helped countless hundreds of nails techs around the world, regardless of the brand they use, and who has been helping for years before S2 even existed!

And quite frankly I'd rather take the advise of that certain shareholder over the opinion of someone who doesn't understand the difference between under/over curing and under/over exposure!

 

[mm29]

I think you are being deliberately argumentative. I didn't advise anyone to do anything and I think you know that perfectly well.

In dire circumstances one makes do with caution, using the brains god gave us and taking no risks. If product is cured there Is no risk. If I had to cure the hell out of it to ensure that then I would. I would never advise anyone to work uninsured and I think you know that too. I think you are deliberately for what ever reason twisting my words to try and make it seem as if I'm saying things I am not.

My fellow nail techs know exactly what I was meaning even if you choose not to understand it. You took two posts from two different threads about two entirely different scenarios one real and one theoretical. I'm not going to explain any more. My fellow techs get what I was saying. Those who want to use my words to take pot shots at me then be my guest.

Name me any business that does not have to face challenges? **** happens sometimes and you deal with it as best you can just as is being done by CND and S2 who are in their hands and some of S2 customers.

I remember a night in my salon when I was working late at 10:00 pm. I just got my client prepped and ready to start when all the electricity went out in the building ... Absolutely pitch black dark.
H&S says no naked flames to be used near the work station. I groped my way to the kitchen grabbed two candles from the drawer and we finished the set by candlelight! What would you have done? I had plenty of towels around just in case and away we went with caution and knowing to take care. Had a good giggle about it and 15 years later she was still a client and we laughed about it many times. Whatever it takes is one of my many motos. Now by telling you that at story am I advising. Nail technicians to work with candles on their desks ? No. But some times you gotta do what you've gotta do.

I do apologise as I'm not being argumentative at all,
S2/CND are lucky they seem to have loyal techs behind them and I'm sure if it was another company they would be getting questioned too.
It's like with hair, nowadays you need to skin test to MI and if you don't your not insured same with using correct peroxide if I were to use a different brand again not insured.
Well I shall leave you's all to it

 

[fozzyo]

CND has a reputation as an amazing company. I do think their products are the highest quality, I do think they are industry innovators.

But too many times now they have let down their clients (the nail techs).

What happened with the launch of Shellac? What happened at the launch of Vinylux?

And now the fact that loads of people are reporting problems with their lamps. Most importantly they can't get replacements to offer a genuine CND Shellac manicure and businesses can't introduce or expand their Shellac treatments. I can't even find the lamp on the S2 website!

And just like the Shellac and Vinylux mess, once again we see a complete a lack of official communication.

How many times has the issue of using a non CND lamp for CND treatments been raised? How many times has it been pointed out using a non CND lamp will most likely mean you aren't insured for the treatments?

This is a fairly major mess - and I have seen no official communication on what is going on. February see's the UK's largest single trade event happen - will S2 have lamps then? Or like with the Vinylux mess are CND not even communicating to some of their biggest distributors about what products they are sending and when?

I made a huge stink about the mess up with Vinylux - Jan Arnold personally phoned me to apologise. If this is causing your business to loose money complain to S2, make your voice heard but make your voice heard even louder at CND directly. They are the ones who have caused these problems. S2 can only supply the product they are provided, they are distributors not manufacturers.

 

[DivineByDesign]

Still uninsured, so for young girls that look up to her, they will think well if Gigi can so can I,

I do wonder if people just don't like rocking the boat,
It's a horrible situation for anyone to be in, I understand. However it's not very professional from a company's point of view.
I was interested in offering shellac but after reading about the vinylux problems now lamps in the space of a few months I'm reconsidering.

I do hope my clients' would be a little more understanding if something occurred beyond my control, and would not abandon me for another tek over an issue I was frustrated and struggling with, and show a little loyalty. The same goes for S2 at the moment.

I mean this nicely but it seems a little narrow minded and slapdash to reconsider a business plan over a small and very unusual issue, which is being suffered by a tiny minority of people. I'm not therefore saying that it isn't a nightmare for that minority, but it is just a minority.

I always work with a back up, to me the price of a second lamp was a small price to pay to protect my business incase anything unexpected should happen. Also, I still don't understand the problems that people are saying about VINYLUX? I have and use every colour, I retail an enormous amount of it and yet I haven't had a single complaint or concern.

This thread really is getting rather tedious and repetitive. It feels like it's now primarily being used to create confrontation. Please people, can we respect what Salon Geek is supposed to be about, which is support and advice, not jumping on people's backs at the first opportunity. I hardly visit SG now as the attitudes of many sadden me and I have had many teks speak to me away from this site saying that they feel the same. More embarrassingly, I've had a number of clients who visit this site say the same. The behaviour of a few, not just in this thread but others, is seriously negatively affecting not just the industry as a whole, but us teks personally.

Can we please be constructive, professional and considerate in our posts, not catty, confrontational and destructive.

Unfortunately now, I anticipate a backlash against this post of mine, as that seems to be the norm on here these days if you hark from a certain brand, however, I would be ever so grateful if I am proven wrong.

As I say to my teenage son, learn to back down, the last word is not always the best xxx

 

[geeg]

Mum, I will admit that I don't fully understand the over curing part of this. I use Gelish and I am very careful with my application and use only the correct lamp and products but are we not in danger of over curing the gels if we are doing nail art, especially if it is only on one nail?

To answer your question .. It is quite hard for anyone to over cure their gel and you won't do it by doing your nail art so don't worry. Gel that is over cured goes brittle and it would take days under a UV lamp which is not going to happen. Think of how long our gels are exposed in daylight; weeks on end! Brittleness is not a hazard to your client the way under curing a product is. A product that has not fully reacted (cured) and become inert is a product that is going to react with what it is near.

This situation is like being in a war!! It has certainly brought out the best in many like our friends Lila and steph and others and it has definitely brought forth the worst in others who just love to kick a fella when they are down. Been an interesting time to say the least. But it is always Open season on geeg. Lol.