Colour correction advice, looking for peroxide advice? Wella

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Coling

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Hi, long time lurker, first time poster here! I will start by saying that I am qualified, got my level 2 about 10/11 years ago and have just done cuts since really (for friends and family).

My mum has got a lot of grey coming through and has been using box tints for god knows how long but has decided that she wants to go quite an ashy blonde so that when her roots do come through, they blend in more and look more subtle in between colours. She was probably a base 3/4 and had some highlights done by a friend. They really hadn't put that many through at all and despite charging her for a full head, they probably only packed in just under half a heads worth, no toning. She was fine with it but her roots have now grown through and it was looking awful.

Yada yada... I've ended up doing a full head of foils for her (which in hindsight should have been back to back) with Blondor and 6% which lifted quite well. The ends are the worst if you can imagine! I ended up doing a bleach bath on the ends after the highlights and her condition is really good. I've then made the mistake in attempting to use 9/81 to tone her hair with 6% diluted down to 3%. This had caused the roots to lift a fair amount and didn't really do much for the ends really (granted because they weren't light enough). I used the diluting method as I had no pastel (We used to do that when I was in the salon but as I said, that was some way back!).

I will post some photos of the stage we're at now and She would like to be quite ashy but not too ashy so that it looks dark again. She's currently I'd say a base 9(?) on her roots and I'd say her mid lengths and ends are more of a base 7/6(?) and quite coppery (again, toner fail 🤦🏼‍♂️. My thoughts now to get her hair looking more uniformed after not wanting to have to bleach her ends again would be to use a combination of 9/81 and maybe 7/18, either 1:1 or 2:1 to help darker her roots a tad to match her ends? She absolutely does not want to go any darker than what her mid lengths and ends are now, but I need to sort the root glow out because it's driving me mad (she doesn't mind it thankfully!).

So my question is...does anyone have an idea how off I am with my mixing ratios on combining 9/81 with 7/81 and should I be using pastel on the roots and then 6% on the ends? In my head I'm thinking, the roots don't need any lift, so I should be using pastel and apply first and then apply the mix to the mid lengths and ends with 6% towards the end... but then I think 1.9%, I'm not going to be adding any depth am I?! Should the roots be done with double base added? OR would it make more sense for me to just go ahead with my original plan which was to do the mix with 6% and start on the root and then bring it through the ends in the last 15/20 mins?

The other thought in my mind was to say have a 1:1 ratio of 9/81 and 7/18 and then maybe a 2:1 ratio of 9/81 and 7/18 on the ends as the ends are possibly more porous despite being darker... OR scrapping both those ideas, applying a full head of 9/81 with 6%(?) and then using a watch and look method of applying 7/18 as a toner with pastel 1:2?

I'd really appreciate any advice and understand that sending her to the hairdressers was probably the more ideal outcome but she's not been feeling that well to go out and have a colour correction done in a salon (hence the friend doing it before). Also, I appreciate that I have not been colouring in a long time and I know a colour correction is a big/long undertaking, I really was never expecting her hair to kick out so much warmth! For extra info, She's about 100% naturally slatey grey in the front and the back is about 75%, her natural colour was probably a base 5 before the grey starting coming through! Currently have plenty of bleach, 6% and 9/81 but wanted to wait for more info before I purchase any pastel or 7/18! Thank you in advanced. I've also attached a photo of the kind of grey that she wants to achieve which is why I was thinking of 7/18 being mixed in with the 9/81... I even got thinking about special mix but then I thought that might be a bit of a risky one!! I appreciate that she may need more bleach but I don't want to add more stress to her hair! Sorry for the long post...

Thanks!
 

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Also, that second photo was a little strand test I did just with 9/81 and 6% for 40 mins, it kind of did what I expected and didn't do that much for the tone. She will be using silver shampoo to keep it up but I feel it needs a bit more of a depth kick hence the 7/18 possibly being added to bring it to an 8? Thanks
 
If she's aiming for the picture of the lady with the dark salt and pepper look then you'll need to do highlights and lowlights.
To even out what you have now, I'd lift up the ends more, then use a level 8 on the roots and any lighter bands. And weave some 7/1 + 8/96 with pastel or 1.5% through. Lighten the really brassy pieces if condition allows.
 
If she's aiming for the picture of the lady with the dark salt and pepper look then you'll need to do highlights and lowlights.
To even out what you have now, I'd lift up the ends more, then use a level 8 on the roots and any lighter bands. And weave some 7/1 + 8/96 with pastel or 1.5% through. Lighten the really brassy pieces if condition allows.

Thanks for the reply! If I’m honest I was hoping to do full head to try and even it out as opposed to foils again. I should have been more specific to the shade of grey in the picture. Her natural grey comes through quite clean on the root with natural black hairs here and there (More so in the back). The condition is okay, I think it could stand another bleach maybe in a week or two but I want to do what I can now to even it out more, even if that’s just toning. Is there anything from the colours I suggested that I got right/could you give me any hints to where I’m going wrong with the developers?

Thanks for taking the time, I know it was a bit of a lengthy post!
 
Mixing 7/18 + 9/81 will give you a heavy blue Ash level 8. This will be great for the brassy bits, but quite so for the more yellow / golden blonde. Think yellow + blue = green.
So to avoid this you'll need to add violet to the mix too.
But you also have new growth to work with too.
I think I would use illumina to target this.
I would mix 7/81 + 8/69 with pastel all over for minimum 20 mins.
Then nex time I personally would use 6/16 with a touch of 5/81 as the base colour, do sliced highlights using airtouch and bleach them low and slow, then to tone I'd use colour touch 10/6 that will give you the end result of that last photo.
The developers you've chosen are all for white coverage or lift, so by using the higher developer with the toning shades you need you're creating lift that's happening in the background. It may look great for a week, but after a few weeks the tone depletion shows and exposes the excess warmth created from that additional lift.
The developer you need ideally is pastel, because this gives you deposit only.
Remember regardless of colour choice or developer choice, essentially nothing is permanent when applied over prelightened hair.
I hope this helps :)
 
Hey, yeah that’s great! Thank you! Yeah I thought at such in terms of what you’re saying about the blue for the orange but not so great for the roots! I should have waited but I’ve literally just ordered some pastel (at least I’ve got that coming now) and some 7/18 KP. In the photo, the roots isn't regrowth it's literally the effect of using 6% watered down to 3% and the 9/81 as a toner that just grabbed :/. That's why I was thinking that maybe I'd need to just do an all over tint for struggling to get it to all go one colour throughout by toning. The toner just was not grabbing at all, more lifting than anything despite diluting the 6%?

What is the difference between the illumina range and KP? I don't have any experience with it really and have only ever used KP/Colour Touch.

I would mix 7/81 + 8/69 with pastel all over for minimum 20 mins.
Do you mean in terms of apply as a full head?

Then nex time I personally would use 6/16 with a touch of 5/81 as the base colour, do sliced highlights using airtouch and bleach them low and slow, then to tone I'd use colour touch 10/6 that will give you the end result of that last photo.
If she is currently around a base 7, what would be the reasoning for mixing a base 6 and a base 5 which is quite dark after all the lifting? Am I missing something 😫 Also If I'm using base 6 + 5, would toning with a base ten be visible? Sorry, I can't quite get my head around that bit 😩

In an ideal situation, I'd lighten the midlegths and ends up enough to match the roots. Moving on from the base colour I'd like to use something either as a toner or a full head colour that is going to mean that the next time it comes to doing her roots I can just use that one or two colour mix on the roots with 6% and maybe toning after.

Going back to what I said earlier, is it even possible to tone with something like 7/18 or is that just going to be sooo saturated that even with 1.9% that it just grabs and grabs and never lets go? If I just went in over the bleach with a nice flat ish colour now to give it some depth, could I use maybe a 2:1 or even 3:1 (9/81 : 7/18) mix with 1.9% to tone and keeping a watchful eye?

Thank you and sorry if my questions are absolutely stupid! aha
 
Mixing 7/18 + 9/81 will give you a heavy blue Ash level 8. This will be great for the brassy bits, but quite so for the more yellow / golden blonde. Think yellow + blue = green.
So to avoid this you'll need to add violet to the mix too.
But you also have new growth to work with too.
I think I would use illumina to target this.
I would mix 7/81 + 8/69 with pastel all over for minimum 20 mins.
Then nex time I personally would use 6/16 with a touch of 5/81 as the base colour, do sliced highlights using airtouch and bleach them low and slow, then to tone I'd use colour touch 10/6 that will give you the end result of that last photo.
The developers you've chosen are all for white coverage or lift, so by using the higher developer with the toning shades you need you're creating lift that's happening in the background. It may look great for a week, but after a few weeks the tone depletion shows and exposes the excess warmth created from that additional lift.
The developer you need ideally is pastel, because this gives you deposit only.
Remember regardless of colour choice or developer choice, essentially nothing is permanent when applied over prelightened hair.
I hope this helps :)
Okay coming back with it still on my brain hours later (It's literally all I keep thinking about). I've had another look at 8/69 and seen so many people having positive experiences with it combatting orange and warmth. Is it literally that good?! This is making me want to make another rushed order for some illumina 8/69 and 7/81 like you say and go with that. (would 2 parts 8/69 to 1 part 7/81 with 1:1 ratio of 1.9% be okay? I'm thinking the /69 tones will help more so with combatting the brassy-ness as you say!)

I think I would need to try and lift her ends a tad more though just to take out as much warmth as I can to match the ends to the root and then would that be going all over as a full head of tint with 1.9% on dry or as a toner on wet? This has been a bigger undertaking and I should have known better than to mess but definitely the best option for my mum at the minute! After this is done, I'd like to try and stick to being able to at least just use one or even a mix of two tints and some 6% to do her roots and she can live with that for a bit 🤣

Wanting to tackle this at the weekend and so I'll be making another quick order now I think and if I hear back with a better solution I will try and cancel my order! Either way she needs something doing to sort it for an appointment on Monday 😫 Thank you for your suggestions so far, I really do appreciate it.
 
You could use 7/0 on the roots, and then the suggested formula on the m.l.e.
Using 6% diluted isn't a guaranteed way of the colour developing how it should. There's no guarantee that you created 3%. By adding water you've essentially created a colour bath.
The reasoning for me recommending the 6/16 + 5/81 is being cause you attached this picture...
What I see here is a level 6 Ash violet - creating the charcoal base colour. By putting highlights of bleach through it you'll then have the lighter pieces of course these would be more yellow blonde - so if you tone with 10/6 or 10/16 then it will neutralise any yellow and leave you with a lovely clean white silver and of course it won't affect the base colour.
The toner is to tone the highlights not the base colour.
 

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The difference between kp and illumina is that kp gives a more dense look and solid coverage. Gives that blocky colour look.
Illumina is more sheer, still giving full coverage but more of a soft tone. It grows out nicely and it's naturally cooler. Illumina has a violet undertone, whereas kp has a brunette undertone.
So a 7/ illumina will be cooler and softer than 7/0 KP.
 
You could use 7/0 on the roots, and then the suggested formula on the m.l.e.
Using 6% diluted isn't a guaranteed way of the colour developing how it should. There's no guarantee that you created 3%. By adding water you've essentially created a colour bath.
The reasoning for me recommending the 6/16 + 5/81 is being cause you attached this picture...
What I see here is a level 6 Ash violet - creating the charcoal base colour. By putting highlights of bleach through it you'll then have the lighter pieces of course these would be more yellow blonde - so if you tone with 10/6 or 10/16 then it will neutralise any yellow and leave you with a lovely clean white silver and of course it won't affect the base colour.
The toner is to tone the highlights not the base colour.
Hey, okay that really helped! Breaking it down a bit more and yeah it does make sense now looking at that "charcoal" base what you're saying with the 5/ and 6/. In my head I always just see gray as an absence of colour if you know what I mean forgetting that of course some greys are a lot whiter and some are a lot darker. The illumina range does sound a lot better suited for the job. Ticks lots of boxes, coverage with a soft tone and a sheer finish, growing out well is obviously (imo) a better reason in itself as the reason she wants to go gray is so that when her roots come through she hasn't got to look like a badger haha. Also very good to know about the undertones of illumina vs kp!

Honestly that is making much more sense now. Is there any point in me lifting the mle and toning again, would it make much more sense and same time and money on product for me to just go with what you're saying about "next time" to go with a full head of tint and run some highlights through and then tone? Obviously no need to highlight but rather than applying a full head of 8/69 + 7/81 with 1.9% and toning... or is that just a step in the right direction to help build a base for the 6/ + 5/ ?

I think I will end up going for the 6/16 and 5/81 but replacing the 5/81 for 7/81 (just to keep it a bit lighter incase she freaks out that it's "too dark" despite wanting that charcoal colour and 6% and applying to mle first then roots to avoid root glow? Thank you again, I know I've been a pain haha!
 
Hey, okay that really helped! Breaking it down a bit more and yeah it does make sense now looking at that "charcoal" base what you're saying with the 5/ and 6/. In my head I always just see gray as an absence of colour if you know what I mean forgetting that of course some greys are a lot whiter and some are a lot darker. The illumina range does sound a lot better suited for the job. Ticks lots of boxes, coverage with a soft tone and a sheer finish, growing out well is obviously (imo) a better reason in itself as the reason she wants to go gray is so that when her roots come through she hasn't got to look like a badger haha. Also very good to know about the undertones of illumina vs kp!

Honestly that is making much more sense now. Is there any point in me lifting the mle and toning again, would it make much more sense and same time and money on product for me to just go with what you're saying about "next time" to go with a full head of tint and run some highlights through and then tone? Obviously no need to highlight but rather than applying a full head of 8/69 + 7/81 with 1.9% and toning... or is that just a step in the right direction to help build a base for the 6/ + 5/ ?

I think I will end up going for the 6/16 and 5/81 but replacing the 5/81 for 7/81 (just to keep it a bit lighter incase she freaks out that it's "too dark" despite wanting that charcoal colour and 6% and applying to mle first then roots to avoid root glow? Thank you again, I know I've been a pain haha!
Yeah you can definitely go straight for the darker choice. I see what you're saying about grey being absent in n colour, but that's why when you apply a cool shade trying to achieve grey, it's important to apply it to a much lighter base. So it's not fighting with underlying tones and natural pigments.
 
Yeah you can definitely go straight for the darker choice. I see what you're saying about grey being absent in n colour, but that's why when you apply a cool shade trying to achieve grey, it's important to apply it to a much lighter base. So it's not fighting with underlying tones and natural pigments.
Yep! because.. If I apply it now, it'll be fighting off the warmth from the MLE whilst taking better on the roots, right?! soo... Sounds like a plan, I think I will lighten the MLE to just even the score through the hair and then perhaps equal parts 6/16 and 7/81 (to not go too dark) with 6% starting MLE and ending with the roots. Thank you! 💙
 
Yeah you can definitely go straight for the darker choice. I see what you're saying about grey being absent in n colour, but that's why when you apply a cool shade trying to achieve grey, it's important to apply it to a much lighter base. So it's not fighting with underlying tones and natural pigments.
Similar to a toner, if it does start to go much darker than planned, Can I wash off and hope that it fades a little then top up with 1.9% as and when required?
 
Yep! because.. If I apply it now, it'll be fighting off the warmth from the MLE whilst taking better on the roots, right?! soo... Sounds like a plan, I think I will lighten the MLE to just even the score through the hair and then perhaps equal parts 6/16 and 7/81 (to not go too dark) with 6% starting MLE and ending with the roots. Thank you! 💙
To tone you need pastel, 6% will cause lift, which you don't want as you're going darker remember 😛
 
Similar to a toner, if it does start to go much darker than planned, Can I wash off and hope that it fades a little then top up with 1.9% as and when required?
It will be a toner, if you want it to act more like a permanent colour then 4% will be better than 6%.
 
It will be a toner, if you want it to act more like a permanent colour then 4% will be better than 6%.
Yep, It's because for some reason in my brain I have "to add tone 1.9% and to darken/lighten it's 6% +" 🤣. Good to know about the 4% though! Got some pastel coming tomorrow so I will at least lighten it whilst I wait for the illumina to arrive :D Will update back with pictures!
 
Yeah good idea, out of curiosity what % developer do you use with bleach generally?
 
Yeah good idea, out of curiosity what % developer do you use with bleach generally?
6%. Back in the day when I had hair and was blonde myself, i used to 12% scalp it and rarely had any sensitivity! Would never have gone anything above a 6 on a clients scalp though. What’s the lift like with 4% and Blondor out of curiosity?

It was more of like a mind over matter, the more you say there scratching with a pin tail the more you irritated it so I always just left it alone, get it on and get it off! If the hair can afford it and you can stand the 12% with short hair I think it’s great for speed 👍🏻
 
OMG I did it to myself once! Blisters all over my scalp 🙈.
I rarely use anything over 6% these days. My go to is usually 3% or 4%. I live by the rule of Low and slow. I find you get cleaner results and the hair is typically in better condition.
 
OMG I did it to myself once! Blisters all over my scalp 🙈.
I rarely use anything over 6% these days. My go to is usually 3% or 4%. I live by the rule of Low and slow. I find you get cleaner results and the hair is typically in better condition.
It seems like a real no go nowadays but I swear it used to be quite norm if you had short hair!??! You just gotta be quick with your application 😂 I mean, you could get a cracking platinum with one application if your base wasn’t too dark 😎.

That is good to know about 4% though! I’m thinking about lifting her ends today and maybe that 6% might be be too much, 4% would have been perfect but will have to decide between 1.9% or 6% just keep thinking I won’t get much lift at all with the 1.9 but 6 might throw the condition out of whack! Previously her hair wasn’t stretchy with the 6. There were some snaggly bits but nothing unusual for bleach 🤔
 

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