Conflict of Interest - When friends want to learn

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VHunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
8,649
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626
Location
Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
Over the years, this one or that one has wanted me to teach them how to do nails. My reply has been "I want to learn more before I teach" and then advised them what direction to take to the best of my abilities.

Recently a 'friend' was making enquiries. She asked me about a few different courses - knowing 'of' the courses in question, I suggested she go elsewhere.
One course in particular teaches 3-4 SYSTEMS within only 3-4 days!
To date, I've had 3 of their students plus one salon owner come to me complaining about the same course, wanting me to help them out.
I, instead, referred them to a better school that was much more costly. BUT the only school local that even came close to really TEACHING as it should be done.
Just as I did for my 'friend'.

She inquired about purchasing an e-file, to which I replied "you should learn to file by hand before touching an e-file. If you still cause damage by hand filing, then you're not ready for an efile" (keeping in mind, she STILL hasn't taken a course).

She asked about the best places to purchase products. To which I replied "wait until you have your diploma, then you can purchase them at a Professional's price which will cost you less". She then turned around and paid retail/consumer prices on a bunch of OPI polishes..........I didn't say a word.

The list goes on. She'd ask a question, and I'd point her towards the best resources/path that I knew. I WANT her to succeed.

BUT in a nutshell, she didn't like any of my answers.
She wanted a CHEAP SHORTCUT (which there aren't any in this industry as you all well know).

I logged on to FB today to discover that she blocked me on FB. Suddenly. No warning. No argument. Our last conversation was about her son's report card.
Not so much as a 'thank you' or nothing.

I'm hazarding a guess (yes, a guess, I don't know for fact) that she's gone 'rogue' and decided to function as an NSS and is advertising her business on her FB page.
Whatever, it won't hurt me any. Wish her luck. She'll learn the hard way and discover she's cut her nose off to spite her face because I could have mentored her. I could have shared additional resources with her, to help her out.
(and as some know, I've recently started preparing course curriculums to start offering training)

BUT it's truly a sad state of affairs.

SOOOOOOOOOO
My question to those of you who have been around in the industry for a while, how do you respond to inquiries from 'friends' who are interested in the industry and wish to pursue the career of becoming a Nail Tech?

Because quite frankly..... I'm not in the mood today to help anymore after being so insulted.
 
Over the years I've had a few clients and friends look at what i'm doing and want to try it themselves as it's 'so easy and so relaxing, a really chushy job'.

Like you, I always advise people to find a really good course and I suggest a few that are in this area. However, out of all the people I know who've gone on courses (around 12 in the last 15 years) only one of them is still in the industy and her business is very quiet. I'm always happy to refer clients on to her if I can't fit them in as she did good courses and her treatments are excellent.

When I started out a local therapist really helped me so I don't mind passing that on IF the person starting out trained well and they're good at what they do. Like you, the people who go on short courses are advised where they can get more training!

I have to say, I felt differently when I first started out and felt quite threatened by anyone new setting up nearby. Now I just see it as healthy competition (or not as the case may be :green:).
 
I had a client (more friend) ask me to teach her how to do nails, she can't afford to keep having her nails done but loves them, she wanted me to teach her so she can do her own no one else's.

I said she still best to do a course as even me showing her she would still be tempted to go and do it for a little cash in hand and i didn't want to degrade the industry x
 
Welcome to my world, Victoria. I have been advising and mentoring for years and years. I get enquiries from all over the world and the one thing I have learned is ... they'll ask you, you will give your thought time amd energy so you can give them the very best advice ... and then they will ignore you and go their own way as if you hadn't spoken or your advice means squat to them.

Out of all the 'messers' who will ignore the advice they have asked you for, come a few gems; the ones who have a brain, respect you and your experience and advice and, who will excel and who will even thank you down the road for helping them get to thier goal. Then you will be proud.

Most people don't thank you once .. never mind twice .. Tony Cuccio once told me that and he was right. But the few jems make it all worth while. I know techs who have 'made it now' who never credit me for teaching them .. incredible. They tell people they trained in the States or taught themselves lol. Doesn't bother me because the real stars in our industry have humility and want to pay it forward. I would name a few, but would hate to leave anyone out so I wont.

Once folks start to believe their own press .. they are on the way OUT as far as I am concerned .. got no time for Divas or those for whom it is all about them and teaching is just a stage they perform on to feel great about themselves instead of it being what it should be which is, ALL ABOUT THE STUDENT ... ABOUT THEM GETTING IT.

GOOD LUCK .. I know you will be a good teacher as you have struggled so hard and so long to make it youself. And you have. I'm proud of you.
 
GOOD LUCK .. I know you will be a good teacher as you have struggled so hard and so long to make it youself. And you have. I'm proud of you.

OH CRAP! You made me cry:cry::cry::cry:.... literally! (what did you go and do that for? lol)
THANK YOU!!! xoxo
It's a bloody shame that folks haven't thanked you or acknowledged your impact on them. Same applies to other mentors/peers on these forums that I KNOW have invested a great deal of their hearts and time to help others.
I know that I appreciate you and the others. I've said so many times before that without SG and my friends here, I would NOT be where I'm at now. SG and it's contributors -yourself included of course!- is what guided me to doing things the RIGHT way and to fabulous learning tools and resources that I wouldn't have known of otherwise.

Honestly, it's not even that she didn't say 'thank you'. It's more that she took what she wanted and slammed a door in my face like a thief in the night. That's what insulted me. Friends aren't supposed to treat each other like that.

WOW, much to think on after your post Gigi.
thank you!

ps: check your inbox on FB, I sent you a message earlier that requires your attention LOL
 
Without wishing to derail the thread in any way, I'd like to say thank you to both of you VHunter and Geeg for the advice and support you give on this site (and in your book Geeg). I have learnt so much from both of you and will continue to take your advice on board as the standard of my work improves. You help many more than you realise.

On topic, even as a newbie to the industry I have have a similar experience with a family member of all people. I can only hope that I will continue to improve my work, build my business over the coming years and take pride in the fact that I didn't trample over anyone on my way. There are many out there that won't be able to say the same for themselves.

Shame for this girl in a way, if she'd been a better friend and heeded your advice she would stand a chance of making a decent go of her business, as it stands that seems unlikely. :hug:
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not from across the pond! I've barely been out of my state, here in the US! :o

From what I understand... anyone can pretty much walk into Sally, buy some acrylic supplies, and start applying them to people and charge them for it?

Here, in the US, you may not charge for a service (even just polish!) unless you have a license to do so. Regardless of the fact that Sally and department stores now have acrylic supplies, Gelish, and a cheap UV lamp. I suppose you can do your friends nails and not "charge" them for it, but you can say, "I didn't charge her, she offered to pay a little for my product!" Guess they can take that up with the officer who finds out about it and comes to investigate. :)

My state requires a minimum of 400 hours training, then you have to take a written board test with your state, then you have to take a practical board test wtih your state. I started school in August, graduated in November, took my written in December, and my practical in January. Got inspected in February, and was able to open my business in March.

Anyway, the point of my rambling is that I don't have ANYONE that asks me to "teach them." There's no one around here looking for a cheap shortcut, as there are none! You're required to pay for school and attend for the hours specified by your state, wait for them to tell you when you can test. It takes TIME and MONEY. Two things completely opposite to "cheap shortcut." Haha.

There are crap salons here in the US, so please don't read my text wrong. It just seems like it cuts out a lot of the "messers." Because you pretty much have to be serious about nails (or business) to go into this field.

Also, we have random inspections by our state board! Are there inspections over there? Where nail technicians would have to be precise on their sanitation and such?
 
See below for my replies ;-)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not from across the pond! I've barely been out of my state, here in the US! :o

From what I understand... anyone can pretty much walk into Sally, buy some acrylic supplies, and start applying them to people and charge them for it?

We don't have Sally's in Quebec. The distributors are supposed to sell to techs with diplomas ONLY. As to whether or not there are some that do otherwise...... ?

Here, in the US, you may not charge for a service (even just polish!) unless you have a license to do so. Regardless of the fact that Sally and department stores now have acrylic supplies, Gelish, and a cheap UV lamp. I suppose you can do your friends nails and not "charge" them for it, but you can say, "I didn't charge her, she offered to pay a little for my product!" Guess they can take that up with the officer who finds out about it and comes to investigate. :)

We don't have investigative officers

My state requires a minimum of 400 hours training, then you have to take a written board test with your state, then you have to take a practical board test wtih your state. I started school in August, graduated in November, took my written in December, and my practical in January. Got inspected in February, and was able to open my business in March.

I WISH we had standards such as this here in Quebec/Cda! If someone has a complaint, they have to make it with health Canada.

Anyway, the point of my rambling is that I don't have ANYONE that asks me to "teach them." There's no one around here looking for a cheap shortcut, as there are none! You're required to pay for school and attend for the hours specified by your state, wait for them to tell you when you can test. It takes TIME and MONEY. Two things completely opposite to "cheap shortcut." Haha.

No kidding!:wink2:

There are crap salons here in the US, so please don't read my text wrong. It just seems like it cuts out a lot of the "messers." Because you pretty much have to be serious about nails (or business) to go into this field.

Also, we have random inspections by our state board! Are there inspections over there? Where nail technicians would have to be precise on their sanitation and such?
  • No inspections
  • No exams - attend course offered by Mrs-Nobody-Special, and get a cert even if you suck.
  • No license requirements
  • No min requirements to be qualified to teach/open up a school
  • etc etc...
  • ZERO standards.
Only recourse for a consumer is to complain to Health Canada if there's an issue and ONLY if they receive enough complaints about a certain place, MAYBE then they'll go inspect.
Sad state of affairs huh? This is why I'm always screaming about lack of standards and why I'm DETERMINED to move forward and attempt to change the status quo, even if it's only my small corner of the world.
 
Here's an example:

Local School/Distributor.
The "Teacher"/Owner of the Distribution has made the following mistakes in front of me/with me:
  • Tried to sell me a single bulb 4w lamp to cure Shellac
  • When I asked for EZ Flow Monomer, offered me CND and said it would be just fine to use instead of EZ flow
  • When I asked about non-acid primer aka protein bonder, she said "primer doesn't have acid in it" :eek:
  • Had never heard of Doug Schoon/Gigi Rousse/Milady's Standard Nail Technology Book/Marian Newman, etc...
  • Says that Uv Gel is not an acrylic product (when she tried to retail a 'bio' gel that's better for your nails:rolleyes: and I argued that they are all acrylic as they all contain acrylates)
  • Has ONE picture on her website advertising the courses, of nails with rings of fire, tips too wide, free edge too thick, no apex and straight smile line. Which for a student wouldn't be terrible, but as the teacher if that's her best work, not a great way to advertise one's skills.
  • Couldn't figure out how I sculpted glitter free-edges, she thought I'd purchased glitter-tips elsewhere and was dumbfounded with the 3D flowers that she thought i must have used molds for.
  • She doesn't sculpt.
NOW can anyone explain to me how she is qualified to teach 3 systems in 3days?
 
I just give them advice about courses and encourage them as much as possible.

I don't really see them as a threat as I am so much further ahead and have an established business built over years a years.

I think it is much harder for newer girls who are trying to become established and whose friends seem to think that it is easy. It must be difficult for them, especially in this financial climate. If you think of the thousands who come out of college each year and private courses and there is still room for all of us!

Most people do not have the stamina to make a business of this, they may start but there aren't many who last. There is no point in worrying about it, and I know you won't Victoria. :wink2:
 
Thanks Shed!

It's not that I'm worried 'about' her though.
(Let's be practical, she lives nearly 1hr away and there's no way my established clientel would go to a newbie. I'm not threatened in the least)
I was encouraging her the whole way.
I discouraged her from that course above, but suspect that's the route she's taking as they're the least expensive and the quickest.
I had even said to her that perhaps by the time it's all said and done, maybe I'll have a place and we could work together.
I've been supporting her interest.

It was the slap in the face with the unfriending after giving her much advice and information, without so much as an explanation that I take exception to.
It's unsettling and leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
It discourages me from wanting to help anyone else.
That was my problem with the whole situation.
And I wondered how other's had dealt with similar and what their stance is when a "friend" is showing interest in the industry.
 
Have been reading this with interest, as a relative newbie ('passed' my course in March of this year) I'd like to offer a different perspective. Without the help of my mentor, who is my sister in law, and the likes of you, Shedunlop, Geeg and countless others on this site, I could have easily given up. I love all things nails but would be the first to admit my training was somewhat lacking. Without people like you taking the time to offer support and advice I would not be able to do what I can now do. I still have a lot to learn and will continue training and lapping up all the information I can get. Please don't give up, you will find people like me who appreciate so much everything you have to offer x
 
Without wishing to derail the thread in any way, I'd like to say thank you to both of you VHunter and Geeg for the advice and support you give on this site (and in your book Geeg). I have learnt so much from both of you and will continue to take your advice on board as the standard of my work improves. You help many more than you realise.


this rings so true for me too :lol:
 
Thank you very much, it's MUCH appreciated! Your kind words go a long way in making me feel better about getting slapped in the face by a 'friend'.

For what it's worth, I didn't post for pats on the back though (but hey, who's arguing about a nice bonus LOL).

I suppose my question is more about how to deal with future queries from friends/future friends to be, that might be interested in pursuing this career.
Should I just say "sorry, this is a conflict of interest" OR maybe just treat it as a business-thing and say "if you're interested in courses with me, my rates are......." and leave it at that?

I really don't want to be in this sort of position again, where I invest time and consideration and get my feelings hurt.
Here on a forum it's one thing.
When it's a friend in my life...... it's rather different.
:confused:
 
Since I started early this year, I've had countless emails from acquaintances (and the unmentionable family member!) asking if I can tell them where to buy the same products and if I can show them how to use them. My standard response now is, in the nicest possible way to tell give them the numbers for Sweet Squared and Bio Sculpture, tell them that they do fabulous training and that I'm happy to help them out with any problems they might have after they've been on the course and wish them luck with it. Having had my fingers burnt already it's not something I want to get involved with.

In your position I would certainly treat it as strictly business and charge. You can share the sort of experience and knowledge that local college tutors just don't have, why should you pass that on for free?! (errr except here, don't start getting all business like with your advice here, I can't afford you! lol)
 
We don't have investigative officers

I WISH we had standards such as this here in Quebec/Cda! If someone has a complaint, they have to make it with health Canada.

No inspections
  • No exams - attend course offered by Mrs-Nobody-Special, and get a cert even if you suck.
  • No license requirements
  • No min requirements to be qualified to teach/open up a school
  • etc etc...
  • ZERO standards.
I don't suppse we have "investigative officers" either. But, if you walk into a salon here and see something you're not too fond of, like if the place is lacking in sanitation, or they're using the Credo blade for pedicures, you can ring/email the state board office of the state you're in, and they WILL take care of it! I simply asked my inspector about the credo blades because I had heard of a particular nail salon still using them (I thought they were illegal). It wasn't a week until that salon got inspected and fined for using credo blades. OOPS! :o Certainly never meant for that to happen!

Anyways. It kind of scares me to know that people are allowed to do nails any ol' way they want and it's just supposed to be okay. :eek:

There's one thing for sure, though. People will appreciate nail techs who are doing things the proper way, instead of cutting corners with crappy work and quick services!
 
I was one of those clients who asked my nail tech for advice on how to learn the trade. Fortunately my nail tech was happy to point me in the direction of our nearest CND/ EZ Flow educator, and I took her advice of doing a proper course with them rather than a cheap one online for example.

I'm happy to say, that I took her advice and did the course. I have been qualified for a little over 2 years now and have built up a nice little business that I run from home - to suit my family. From the outset I promised my nail tech that I would never pinch any of her clients - and I never have. She still does my nails for me - as I love having my nails done, and we have a great chat about business and all new things out there in the world of enhancements. Her advice about starting up was invaluable - she was honest about the hard work, costs, practice & patience I would need to put in to ensure I became succesful. I'll never be able to thank her enough for her help.

The thing is - I wanted to go down the proper route, get a recognisable qualification, using quality products. At no point did I want to be a nail tech using stuff you can get on the cheap, and I didn't want to be producing rubbish enhancements. I wanted insurance, I wanted to buy professional gels and I wanted to be able to have confidence in my own skills and confident that the products I use wouldn't let me down.

This site is also invaluable, the knowledge here knows no ends.... this site and it's members have also been a great help, so thanks to you all xx
 
Aren't the regs different in each province in Canada? I knew another tech who was inspected, but it was a different part of Canada.

I've believe that when you do something good for someone it is better to not have any expectations from that person. Just knowing you are helping someone else should be enough of a reward.
 
I've inserted my replies below :)

My standard response now is, in the nicest possible way to tell give them the numbers for Sweet Squared and Bio Sculpture, tell them that they do fabulous training and that I'm happy to help them out with any problems they might have after they've been on the course and wish them luck with it.

Brilliant answer! I think I'll pinch that. THANKS!

In your position I would certainly treat it as strictly business and charge. You can share the sort of experience and knowledge that local college tutors just don't have, why should you pass that on for free?! (errr except here, don't start getting all business like with your advice here, I can't afford you! lol)

Thank you again! No worries, not charging here LOL I'm "giving back" what was given to me :wink2: In any case, one of your pounds is worth two of our dollars, so you'd probably be ok anyway haha

[/LIST]
Anyways. It kind of scares me to know that people are allowed to do nails any ol' way they want and it's just supposed to be okay. :eek:
We don't have state boards. In Quebec, we have literally nothing except Health Canada or Sante Quebec, to place complaints with. ONly if they get several from different sources regards one salon, will they investigate. And yup, lots of credo blades being used. I can see them from the hallway of the shopping center.

There's one thing for sure, though. People will appreciate nail techs who are doing things the proper way, instead of cutting corners with crappy work and quick services!
Thankfully!

The thing is - I wanted to go down the proper route, get a recognisable qualification, using quality products. At no point did I want to be a nail tech using stuff you can get on the cheap, and I didn't want to be producing rubbish enhancements. I wanted insurance, I wanted to buy professional gels and I wanted to be able to have confidence in my own skills and confident that the products I use wouldn't let me down.
I think that's awesome of both of you!

Aren't the regs different in each province in Canada? I knew another tech who was inspected, but it was a different part of Canada.
Only two provinces require licenses, the rest of Canada is a free-for-all. Quebec being one of the worst. Hairdressers don't need licenses here either. They can learn on the job in some salons. Start as shampoo girl,a nd work up. Never setting foot inside a classroom, nor taking an exam.

I've believe that when you do something good for someone it is better to not have any expectations from that person. Just knowing you are helping someone else should be enough of a reward.
I honestly didn't have expectations. Other than to remain friends. I didn't see her choice of career as an issue. I encouraged it. Getting slapped with a 'unfriend/block' on FB came as a startling surprise. In fact, she even 'restricted' one of our mutual friends so that she can't see her wall or status'.... fishy that is. That's what leads me to suspect she's chosen the NSS route and I'm sure she knows that would be a dissappointment to me.

Thank you EVERYONE for all of your input and support.
I dearly appreciate it!:hug::hug:
 
Had never heard of Doug Schoon/Gigi Rousse/Milady's Standard Nail Technology Book/Marian Newman, etc...

I was surprised to see you mention Milady's. That's the one we used in beauty school. :)

I checked into purchasing Gigi's book. But, my goodness! And NO offense to Geeg, whatsoever! I just can't afford that book! Haha. I would have to ask Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Toothfairy to go together and buy me that book. ;)

One day, though. I will own that book! ;)
 

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