Contra-indications and discrimination

[allyballybee]

I was on Epilespy Action site looking into beauty treatments and basically is says unless every person who wants to have treatment requires a letter from their doctor, it may be discrimination to only ask people with epilepsy to provide one.

Now I suppose epilespy is just one of many contra-indications that would may completely contra-indicate certain treatments or require a doctor's letter. So if we refuse treatment or ask for GP letter, in which the way we were trained, also to comply with insurance, then basically we could get sued for discrimation. Would insurance cover you for discrimination?

Just wondering everyone's thoughts on this on.

 

[daisyl]

Can I ask - on what grounds would you refuse a treatment for someone with epilepsy? What was your teaching in college. To me this seems very extreme and I would agree, discriminatory. If the person was otherwise fit and well, and well controlled a drs letter is not necessary surely. X

 

[Verve Designs]

Not my area of expertise but I thought you might find this useful (god bless Google)

Beauty treatments | Epilepsy Action

It's because some treatments involve electricity (laser hair removal etc.) or light (sunbeds)- and both, I think, are a misconception (though there is evidence that laser treatments may "flicker" and cause a seizure)

"If your epilepsy is uncontrolled, and it is likely that you may have a seizure during the treatment, you need to talk to discuss possible risks with your beauty therapist. It may be appropriate to talk to your GP or epilepsy specialist about whether or not the treatment would be advisable for you"

I dont think a policy of talking about it to a client discrimination when it might lessen the chances of one being sued....its about protecting yourself and your business. If its handled in a polite and sensible manner of course.

However, you cant make them ask for a letter

"An example of a blanket restriction might be saying that no one with epilepsy can have a certain treatment, or that everyone with epilepsy needs a letter from their doctor before they can have the treatment."

Thats something thats covered in the DDA (disability discrimination act)]

Oddly though it also says

" In some cases you may need a letter from your doctor before having the treatment."

So, I think it down to the client- you cant ASK for a letter- but they ought to provide one if they suffer severely.

hth

 

[allyballybee]

I am not saying that it isn't discrimation, but if your training tells you a contra-indication requires a GP letter, also your insurance to be able to be covered, then you are technically discriminating the client by asking for this letter.

Would be interesting to hear what the likes of the guild and babtac would say with regards to this matter.

 

[Helen v]

This is very spooky I was having a conversation about this very subject today. IMO if the client can tell you the kind of epilepsy, whether the seizures are under control, have been on the same meds for a while, know their triggers, and can recognise their warning signals, if the treatment that you are going to do posses no massive threat then they should be fine for treatment.
But for those of you that have not had any dealings with epilepsy, there is a medication (bottle name Epilim) clients on this should have been advised by their doctor to be aware of abnormal bruising as it can have an effect on the blood and vessles. So you might want to keep this in the filing cabinets of the mind.
I know this from the treatment of my son about 5 years ago.

 

[Spa Therapist]

I was always taught that essential oils are a big no-no for epileptics as they affect the signals in the brain so when I worked with Decleor it was a nightmare (this is only what I was told, I'm not a doctor! :lol: ) and I suppose clients won't have used every essential oil in the past so it's hard to know whether they'll affected them or not.

I would feel very uncomfortable if somebody told me they had uncontrolled epilepsy and still wanted to try a treatment anyway, because I've no idea what to do in the event that they have a seizure (probably a selfish reason, I know, but I'm not a first-aider and might do something wrong)

I would definitely always follow what the insurance policy states, but it's a difficult one because you have to be consistent and that means asking for a doctor's note whether its an aromatherapy facial or just a file & polish and a client may understandably be insulted if you implied that they couldn't judge their own body's reaction to a file & polish!!

I hate telling people they can't have a treatment, I think it's the worst part of the job but I definitely wouldn't want to hurt anyone either

It's tricky!

 

[allyballybee]

Sorry, I think I didn't explain myself right here. I didn't mean just epilepsy, but any other contra-indication that training and insurance stipulates that to treat client they would require GP letter.

I have a client who I've asked for GP letter because she had a brain hemorrage and it has left her with little feeling down one side of her body. I phoned my insurance and asked if I should ask if I should treat (just to be on the safe side) and they said she needs a GP letter.

Now the client is saying I'm discrimination against disabled clients, which it is not the case at all. She has threatened to go to her lawyer and take me to the press.

I was only trying to do the best for the client and protect my business. Now I'm not sure where I stand.

 

[Spa Therapist]

Sorry, I think I didn't explain myself right here. I didn't mean just epilepsy, but any other contra-indication that training and insurance stipulates that to treat client they would require GP letter.

I have a client who I've asked for GP letter because she had a brain hemorrage and it has left her with little feeling down one side of her body. I phoned my insurance and asked if I should ask if I should treat (just to be on the safe side) and they said she needs a GP letter.

Now the client is saying I'm discrimination against disabled clients, which it is not the case at all. She has threatened to go to her lawyer and take me to the press.

I was only trying to do the best for the client and protect my business. Now I'm not sure where I stand.

It's a horrible position to be in :irked:
What treatment is she wanting to have? If it's something like waxing or a heat treatment where it's important to the client's safety that she has full sensation in her skin, then surely any judge in any court will agree with you? You'd hope so anyway it's just common sense.

Could you maybe ring your insurance provider and ask them if it's legal to ask one client for a doctor's note and not another?

I wouldn't back down though - think what could happen

hth x

 

[allyballybee]

It's a horrible position to be in :irked:
What treatment is she wanting to have? If it's something like waxing or a heat treatment where it's important to the client's safety that she has full sensation in her skin, then surely any judge in any court will agree with you? You'd hope so anyway it's just common sense.

Could you maybe ring your insurance provider and ask them if it's legal to ask one client for a doctor's note and not another?

I wouldn't back down though - think what could happen

hth x

Thanks for your support. It is waxing (half leg, underarm, facial) manicure and pedicure. She did come in for a these treatments before and we did treat her, although in her consultation she very much played down the extent of her lack of feeling, and said that she always had these treatments done.

I eventually had to stay in the treatment room and assist the therapist getting her on to the couch and staying in the room because I was worried she'd fall of the bed. She said she had a slight loss of feeling down on side, but when therapist was doing the pedicure, she seemed to have no control over her leg. Also had to hold her arm up for her while therapist waxed underarm.

After she left she I was worried about the risk and whether we should of treated her in the first place. She booked in again then I thought I'd ask insurance's advice.

When I phoned her to ask for gp letter, she said she will have no problem getting on the bed etc, I said that she did the last time and at the next apt there was no therapist free to help. She said she was nervous cos it was her first time. She wasn't that nervous - asking for freebies, asking for us to wax her nipples (which she insisted on showing us, even though there was no hairs), swearing like a trooper and telling us about her affair with a married man.

The insurance advised us to do treatments on a chair after carrying out a risk assessment, only after getting a letter.

She is saying that we've shot ourselves in the foot because we done it the first time. But because she played it down so much, I didn't realise the extent of her lack of feeling.

It got me thinking about all the contras that would require GP letter and would asking for one leave you liable for a discrimation claim (not just for disabled for any serious medical condition).

 

[Spa Therapist]

Hmmm she doesn't sound like a very nice classy lady to me :lol:

I sympathise with the fact that she's not suitable for the treatments she wants, but at the end of the day it's for her own good!! She could well be making a fuss and trying to push you into doing the treatment without a note because her doctor won't give her one. I'm sure if you carried out the treatment and she ended up with burns because of the lack of sensation, she would then threaten to sue over that! Everybody wants to sue us these days :irked:

If you still have her initial consultation form then, if worst comes to worst and she does take you to court, you can produce this and show everyone how mild she made her disabilities sound... if she underplayed her lack of sensation or even didn't mention it and then she signed the form, I'd imagine she doesn't have a leg to stand on (no pun intended)

There's always one who wants to ruin your day

 

[allyballybee]

Aww thanks. She did fill in record card and sign it. I was trying to get her to see my point of view, but she was having none of it. I suppose I kind of got the vibe that she was that sort of person (that would sue), so that's why I thought I'd try and cover my back by phoning my insurance, to check I was doing the right thing. Didn't think for a minute she would turn it into what she has.

My hubby had said to be to just to say the therapist was off sick on the next day she was booked in, I told him this was just wrong. Starting to think he was right....

xxx

 

[jes]

I can't see how you are discriminating or being prestigious against this client. All you asking for is an expert opinion (her Dr) on the situation. You are denying her nothing. If the Dr says no then she can take the matter up with him/her.

Ironically, If she took the case to court, she'd almost certainly have to produce medical information from her Dr!

You are doing the right thing. Insist on seeing a Dr's note before doing any more treatments and if/when she produces one phone the Dr and make sure the note is genuine!

jes