e-nails

[geeg]

Dear Gordon ... please let us not get into a sparring match but please let us be accurate in what we say.

NVQ assessors can only teach subjects they are qualified in. Hazel is a fully qualified beauty therapist.

A fully qualified Beauty Therapist does not make a fully qualified Nail Technician, which Hazel may also be, but because she is a BT one cannot assume on the face of that, that she is an expert nail technician ... although she may well be.

The PGCE is the Postgraduate Certificate in Education. This is the highest qualification attainable in teaching.

I am aware, but many would not be.

I do not doubt that hazel is an excellent teacher of her subject.
There are two days of contact time on the e-nails course. Some home study and practice is also necessary. The UV acrylic is easy to apply and because it is self-levelling filing time is reduced dramatically.

Yes, I would think allot of home study and practice is necessary which I did not see alluded to on your web site details. Sounded to me like you could easily set up yor own business on completion of the course in 2 days. Do your students sit an assessment after this hometime study or are they assessed on day 2? What does this assessment consist of? Practical work? Written paper? If there is no asessment, then it is hardly a surprise that everyone passes the course.

As pointed out, the hazardous emissions from sculptured acrylic liquids are vapours not fumes.

I never mentioned Hazardous emissions????? Please! Where is that one coming from??? There is absolutely nothing hazardous in the samll amount of vapour released from the tiny amount of liquid monomer used during a nail service. A 25 year old thriving industry using products that emit hazardous vapours like gamma rays or something???? My goodness, you had better purchase and read "Nail Structure and Product Chemistry" by the recognised world authority Douglas Schoon. Especially if this type of misinformation is being given out even subliminally on e-nail courses.

Some companies sell franchises so that people they have trained can teach others! We don't do this.

I certainly hope not.

Anyone considering a course would be well advised to check that the lecturer has recognised teaching qualifications. They should also ensure the certificate is independently recognised if they don't want to be tied to one, usually expensive, supplier.

I wholehearted agree that credentials should be checked out. However, I have never in 20 years heard of a nail technician being tied to one supplier of expensive high end branded lines (whose certificates are recognised throughout the industry) if she/he chose to use another system. I have heard of the opposite though, where a nail technician is tied to a supplier of low end products because the certificate/s gained were not worth the paper they were written on because of the short duration of the course..

Finally, if you haven't been on an e-nails course please don't post unfounded comments about them. It is unprofessional, discourteous and it upsets people who have trained with us.

I hope I have not posted any unfounded comments ... because as you say it would be discourteous and not professional behavioiur. But I equally cannot sit back and let you or anyone else write inaccurate information, and use incorrect terminology without having the right to reply.

When I see one of your ex students, winning a competition and running a successful salon after 2 days of e-nails innovative new type of tuition, I will be a believer!!!

 

[naturalnails]

....
Finally, if you haven't been on an e-nails course please don't post unfounded comments about them. It is unprofessional, discourteous and it upsets people who have trained with us.

If we go back to the original question - we were being asked to make a judgement or recommendation based on a website - which presumably all of your potential students base their decision on.

This as what I as doing - based on the training and information I have been given.

Sorry to say but if you don't want us to make comments on your website information then maybe it should not be in the public domain.

To just make one comment about Hazel being a qualified Beauty Therapist, as Gigi said this does not make her a Nail Technician. I have been taught manicures at college by a Beauty therapist and she knew nothing about nail enhancements apart from them being very damaging to the natural nails - which we all know not to be the case.

 

[Gordon Rice]

Hazel is a qualified nail technician as well as a qualified beauty therapist.

The Health and Safety Executive classify the sculptured acrylic as a hazardous substance and stress the need for adequate ventilation when using it. They also class the dust thrown up by the drills as a hazardous substance.

Many of our ex students run successful salons.

The original question was
"has any one done one of these courses or heard of them?"
I suspect it was an attempt to get a response from someone who had actually been on the course and two of our ex students responded positively.

I will change the paragraph on the wraps Fab Freak. The comments are only meant as a rough guide for people that are just starting. We tell the students to buy books and magazines, to search the net for up to date info and to try out different systems.

The cost effective remark had nothing to do with the product or tools. It was about the time taken to apply a set. The UV system is fast and very natural looking. Hazel puts a perfect set of UV acrylics on in 40 minutes, without rushing and just using a hand file. The students pick it up quickly too, because it's easy to apply.

Thanks to everyone for the interaction and your comments. I find the vast majority of people are happy with our web site and we get many compliments on how easy it is to follow and how complete the information is compared to other sites. However, I will consider all the points made when next updating pages.

 

[The Geek]

I just missed this thread until someone emailed me about it. Originally, I simply saw the link and brushed over it. I dint realise a big debate was taking place.

All that I can say is that although I disagree with the sales angle (implies heavily that UV L&P doesnt damage natural nails whilst others may whilst failing to point out that they are the most likely system to cause adverse skin reactions) nor do I agree that you can sufficiently cover all of the aspects they are claiming to cover, I do not feel that anyone can make a snap decision on the quality of the course without attending the actual course themselves.

BTW: UV cured L&P is not the latest type of technology. Its been around for yonks but has never took off for many of the downsides.
Sure you dont want to 'advertise' those points, but be careful when pretending they dont exist

Good luck

 

[Gordon Rice]

Thank you for your thoughts.

I would like to say I am not trying to sell anything here. I was informed that negative comments about our course had been placed upon the forum and was responding. After all the thread starts with our company name on it.

The students are well informed of the fact that the liquid can cause a reaction. They each receive a 20-page A4 manual with all background information and step-by-step instructions. Here is a quote from the Health and Safety page.

"The UV acrylic liquid can be a skin sensitiser (cause an allergic reaction) when it is not cured, so if any is spilt onto bare skin it should be washed off immediately with plenty of soap and water."

When the UV acrylic is cured properly it becomes inert. We always advise the students to cure the nails for four minutes under the lamp and have had very few problems. Any system has it's drawbacks.

The fact that no drill is used because the UV acrylic is self-levelling is a big plus, it means there is minimum trauma to the nail plate.

No-one is saying that the UV acrylic is brand new or that it is the only system to use. We also cover gel on the course.

Every student that attends fills in the comments book once they have completed the course. We have hundreds of comments and they are all positive. Anyone is welcome to come and view it. I think that should be a good enough indication of the quality of our training itself.

 

[The Geek]

I didnt mean to say you were trying to sell anything here. I was simply refering to the selling points on the web page in question.
I think its great that you seem to devote a lot of time to ensure the student is aware of the sensitizing properties of UV cured L&P. I am only pointing out that in all of the literature on the site, it doesnt mention the negatives in all of the hyped up positives (understandably so, but still its reasonable to question it).

I think so far you have handled the comments posted here very professionaly and I just wanted to make sure that everyones posts stayed in the same vein.

If you also wouldnt mind me making a couple of other small points:

1- The biggest problem w/ UV L&P is the fact that oxygen really inhibits polymerization. You usually have to remove the inhibition layer with an abrasive and this is the most common reason why nail technicians develop reactions to it. I am not saying this applies to the system you use to teach with or you may have a safe way of teaching it... I am just clarifying.

2- Any gel, L&P, or Wrap system is self leveling. Obviously some level quicker than others. Nor does the leveling properties have too much to do with drills. If the system levels too much than I am sure you would have just as much filing as if it didnt at all (sounds like this may not be a problem with your system though).

3- Though I dont use them, I believe that electric files are perfectly safe when used by a trained professional as long as they are never used on the natural nail plate. They do cause more damage on average to the nail enhancment, but 'drilling' on the enhancment does not damage the natural nail plate.

I think the biggest amount of resistence that you have experienced so far is simply down to the fact that most professional technicians here have yet to find a safe and skilled graduate of a two day course.
On the other hand, there are virtually countless that have gone on 2 day courses and are very dangerous to themselves and to their clients. These techs give the industry a bad rep.
I do not mean to imply that your school falls into this category. I only mean to try and explain everyone elses perception. If your graduates come out working skilled and safely after 2 days, then I applaud you and your trainers.

BTW: Much of the technology used in advanced L&P systems comes from the aerospace industry... therefore it is actually Rocket Science... literally.

 

[Nailsinlondon1]

Dear Gordon I hope you dontmind me adding a little .....
I took this form the website......................


The UV acrylic is the latest type. It is the easiest to learn, has no odour and doesn't discolour. It is light, natural looking and doesn't damage the client's own nails. It is possible to achieve an almost perfect shape before the nail is cured so they can be finished quickly with just a hand file.


I applaude you for the professional responses you have given to this thread and it is fab to see a professional behaving like one.......... Thanks and nice one xxx

But I have one small issue.............
This statement is a little bit untrue..............We all know that is not a system that causes nail damage, but the preping that does.....using a 180 grit file or even a 240 buffer in an over zealous way.........So this statement lets untrained people believe unless it is UV acrylic it is damaging nails..........

So maybe change it a little...........my angle to promoting UV Acrylic would be that it is oudourless and the faster learning angle......

Just a personal thought here and dont shoot me for it, I am to young to die lol......

Most of us trained Technicians finish our application if using L&P with a brush so less filing for the end finish is needed, therefore less dust and chance of after service breakdown and less hard work for us, as in flattening mountains.................This is what part of our Masters Qualification is based on...........not the finish nail but the unfinished , before filing near perfect enhancement............This is the standard every L&P Technician should strife for..........
Just a thought

 

[Fab Freak]

I will change the paragraph on the wraps Fab Freak. The comments are only meant as a rough guide for people that are just starting. We tell the students to buy books and magazines, to search the net for up to date info and to try out different systems.

The cost effective remark had nothing to do with the product or tools. It was about the time taken to apply a set. The UV system is fast and very natural looking. Hazel puts a perfect set of UV acrylics on in 40 minutes, without rushing and just using a hand file. The students pick it up quickly too, because it's easy to apply.

QUOTE]
Cool - as they are really misleading...do you know its funny you say that the students pick L&P with UV quickly I do both now and I found that doing wraps was fair easier and still is as trying to creat the Smile Line is the hardest skill..but thats just me - I will look forward to seeing your revised comments on Wraps..

 

[suzie01895]

I have just read this thread and feel qualified to comment as I actually did the e-nails course. At the time of the training the price factor was the main issue for me (how naive of me!) which was how come I ended up in Manchester - I knew nothing about nails before I attended the course and came away knowing just a fraction more - I "passed" the assessment because it would have been difficult not to - the "innovative" training was simple - Hazel talked continually using the terms we were required to know in order to pass and we learned "parrot fashion" - at the end of day 2 she just asked us questions (1 person at a time, but still in the group), therefore by the time she got to me (there were 8 people on the course) - obviously, I had no problem in answering. Yes, I put glowing comments in the message book (I felt I had to!) - but what did I actually learn? - very little (I didnt realise that at the time!). That was 8/9 months ago and have now decided to go back to basics and pay for the Creative 4 day foundation course. I have made this decision from everything I have picked up since (especially from this website) - but because I know that the 2 day course was not nearly long enough and from all the systems there are around, I have decided that Creative is what I want. Education is as we all know is so important, but so is the back up support after the training. Because the training was in Manchester and I live in Milton Keynes, it was impossible to have as much "free support" as I needed - this in my opinion is vital. Yes it is true to say that you are not forced to buy the products - but after 2 days training, I didnt know what I needed to become this "professional nail technician" that I was being told I would become (I am still waiting!!!), anyway, Hazel "suggests" that it would be a good idea to purchase the kit at £185 cash- NO RECEIPT and it would be delivered to our homes within a few days. It actually took more than 2 weeks to receive it and turned out that that Hazel was using a local wholesalers (stirlings of Manchester) to supply this. The trouble I had getting the goods to be delivered to me was unbelievable and can honestly say that the "manager" of Stirlings is the rudest man I have ever come across, and during one phone call, he actually hung up on me. So after paying my train fare, 2 nights in a hotel, the training course itself and the kit - I spent far in excess of what I would have paid if I had done the creative foundation course in Aspley Guise (which is about 5 miles from my house). I feel I have been left out of pocket and not much wiser than I was at the beginning. I no longer use the UV acrylic as I could not produce these "beautiful, natural looking nails" that I was promised - (I know there is at least one other geek on this site that did the training with me and I know she feels the same and gave up the UV acrylic very quickly, maybe she will confirm what I am saying). There was a lot of things that we were not taught, I can see this now and if someone asked my opinion as to if they should attend this training, after my experience I would say no. I have now invested too much money to give up, but have decided its no good crying over spilt milk and have put it behind me. I am now looking forward to obtaining good training with a reliable back up support service and hope that I can go on to be a really good nail tech


Sue

 

[artymarty]

Yep........I'm the other geek Suzie was talking about!!! I can totally agree 100% with what she says. We were treated rather like naughty children too. In fact at one point I did actually retaliate when Hazel gave me quite a tongue lashing for not bringing my glasses!!!! We were not allowed to help ourselves to ANYTHING!! We were each allocated a set amount of liquid and powder, and at the end of each day she poured back what powder was left in our dappen dishes back into the original containers. We could only have one drink when she said we could have one (I drink loads of tea!!!), and in fact we were shortchanged regarding the length of the classes as it was supposed to finish at 4.30, and invariably we were ushered out before 4pm!!! We could only do ONE hand of our partner (the hand they/we couldn't do ourselves), and got told that when our kit arrived then we would be able to do the other hand at home!! Everything was learned "parrot fashion", the test/exam or whatever you want to call it was just verbal, answering a few questions such as "What does the eponychium do?", "What's a contra-indication?", etc. There was no written paper or questionnaire, and the "Certificate" which we received was just a signed photocopy!!!!! We were also told that we would be able to almost immediately go out and "do nails".

I too had problems getting my kit from Stirlings, a place I have never since bought from and never will again!!

I read something about MMA one day and wasn't really sure what it was so e-mailed Hazel to ask whether the acrylic we had purchased contained this. I had such a nasty attacking e-mail back from Gordon Rice, saying that I was the first person to ever ask this question, Hazel is a qualified tutor with X amount of years experience, and this was more or less a slur against her integrity, blah, blah, blah!! He's the heavy mob!

I also stopped doing the UV acrylic system due to it not being as easy as it was made out to be.

At the time in our naievity we thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, but since joining this site I for one have certainly had my eyes opened to what REAL training is!! I will certainly pursue Creative training - as soon as I've got the dosh to do it!

E-Nails? More like RIP-OFF NAILS!!!

 

[mui]

Another thread that has turned nasty to lock and throw away the key .

 

[Fab Freak]

Another thread that has turned nasty to lock and throw away the key .

I personnaly find this interesting...it is good that people that have paid for training and have experienced problems voice their opinions to maybe if necessary save people from spending hard earned monies....no matter who, or whom the company might be - dont you think Mui? Especially if you look at the first post on this thread, and the last two?

 

[Gordon Rice]

You can't please everyone. I can't understand anyone writing a glowing report for something they didn't appreciate.

The vast majority of students are happy with their training and many keep it touch and tell us of their progress. We receive a lot of recommendations. People phone us and say their friends and relatives have been on our course and they wish to attend.

We have changed suppliers because of problems. We never received any money from the sale of kits and offered it purely as a service to the students. We had negotiated a substantial discount on their behalf.

The certificates are individually printed, with the students name and course date, on an expensive marble grey paper.

I take offence at being called the heavy mob and I am considering taking legal advice over the contents of the posting, as it is defamatory.

Here is a copy of the e-mails in question. I often answer e-mails on Hazel's behalf, where I am able, as she is busy. I did feel we were being accused of supplying MMA's and so gave a detailed reply, but I fail to see how anyone could call it nasty and attacking.


----- Original Message -----
From: Martine on NTL
To: hazel
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 10:16 PM
Subject: MMA


Hi Hazel

I am concerned that the acrylic liquid and powder which I was supplied with seems to contain Methyl methacrylate, having just read an article in "Nails" magazine about a report done by Watchdog.

It is dangerous to techs and their clients health, and in my case has produced difficult and almost impossible to remove nail enhancements even after soaking for almost an hour in acetone!

I would be extremely grateful for your advice, and for looking into whether we were supplied with MMA products, and if so whether it could be exchanged for the safer "EMA".

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Martine



Hello again Martine,

This is the first e-mail I've had on this subject from a student.

I can assure you there is no MMA in UV acrylic and there is none in gel. You won't find it in any branded products. It is produced mainly for industry and dental labs. It comes in large containers, not small bottles.

We are quite aware of what MMA is and don't feel it necessary to tell our students about it as it is only used in sculptured nails.

We don't use or recommend anything that will damage anyone. We are well know and respected in the industry and work with many government agencies. As you may be aware Hazel is a highly qualified and sought after state college lecturer who knows her subject.

Here are some excerpts from e-mails from an environmental health officer to me. I was helping him with his investigations. Hopefully this will set your mind at ease.

If you have any further concerns please don't hesitate to contact us.

Gordon

Thank you for your kind offer for assistance and direction after my phone call to you. I am an Environmental Health Officer working in ****** and have not been involved with nail bars before.

I am investigating a complaint following the watchdog programme that I did not see that a lady had the chemical MMA used on her nails and required in a different premises 2 hours of work to repair her nails. She now has very sore nails but is not seeking compensation but may be prepared to come in for a press article on the danger of MMA.

I would be grateful for any advice you may be able to give on MMA and what products it may be in and how it is applied plus any safety precautions, training that nail technicians should have etc.

Lastly may I thank you for stating that you would assist in my enquiries, it is very gratifying to find helpful people.

Gordon

May I first say a big thank you for all your advice and particularly guidance on the products and chemicals within.

I am now satisfied at face value that they did not use MMA but more likely poor procedures that damaged the cuticle and lower layers of the nail. We are going to do a little local article for the press on the hazards and your research will be very useful.

Again may I express my thanks for your considerable help. If I ever have to advise people on nail training courses I now have a reputable source.

Kind regards

 

[Lellipop]

Hi,
I would just like to say, That although not familar with the e-nails courses.
I do agree with Gordon when he says that there will always be positive and negative responses to any course run.
I would say to Gordon that i think he has responded in a professional manner, and it would be nice to hear the positives that his courses have acheived.

 

[JackieMc]

We are quite aware of what MMA is and don't feel it necessary to tell our students about it as it is only used in sculptured nails.

I am interested in this quote from your email. Firstly, I think it is MORE than necessary to inform students about MMA, especially if they are then, as you tell them, free to go use whichever system they want to after the course. All budding nail technicians need to be made aware of the differences between MMA and EMA so that they are in a position to make an informed choice on buying future products.

Secondly, I think perhaps you should have re-worded the bit about MMA being only used in sculptured nails - it isn't. MMA contained in certain liquid monomers, most definately not ALL may be used in both sculptured and tip and overlay enhancements, but not ONLY as you have stated. Your statement gives the impression that any nail technician offering a sculptured nail service is using MMA - not a professional impression to give and most certainly not true.

 

[naturalnails]

.....
We are quite aware of what MMA is and don't feel it necessary to tell our students about it as it is only used in sculptured nails.
......

Like Lesley says, there are positives and negatives with all courses and systems.

There does not seem to be an industry standard available stating one right way to work safely and to get the best out of our chosen trade.

One thing I would like Gordon to clarify and that is the above line from his post - surely if MMA is present in the Liquid Monomer it could be used to do an overlay, or used on tips as well as for sculpting on a form.

I get confused when people describe nails as being acrylic nails (sculptured) or tips (l&P over a tip) - this was what put me off doing a college course as this was how my college lecturer described them. She asked me to do a set of acrylic nails but what she really wanted me to do was a set of sculptured L&P nails.

 

[naturalnails]

OOps its me chasing you this time Jackie LOL.

 

[JackieMc]

OOps its me chasing you this time Jackie LOL.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Great minds, Fiona, great minds..........

 

[mum]

Hi Gordon
I would like to comment that you have answered every time in a very professional manner and stayed polite. You obviously believe in your service and that you are doing the right thing and that is commendable.

However, the majority of members of this site are so passionate about their subject and career that emotions often play a great part in their responses. I have been around this industry for close to 20 years and was very involved in education and qualifications. In my experience, the 'super technicians' feel this passion and are dedicated to long term learning.

My guess is that you personally are not an experienced technician but a business man. There is absolutely nothing wrong in that but, as you have probably noticed, one word used in the wrong context will be jumped on by the experienced technicians.

I do think that, on the whole, this type of thread, especially when dealt with in a professional manner, is very interesting for all concerned. I hope you are taking on board that there is a big section of this industry dedicated to total professionalism which involves a great deal more learning and qualifcations than a 2 day course and , judging from the progress made in the qualification arena and approved at Government level, this is the way forward.

I also hope that technicians understand how and why short courses are still so popular and until there is some kind of regulations in place they will continue. They have worked very successfully for 30 years!

From Sept NVQ Levels 1,2 and 3 will be in place for Nail Services. A full time course at FE college takes 2 years to achieve Level 3 in most subjects. A Advanced Modern Apprenticeship in Nail Services will go forward with the recommended time scale of 3 years. Of course all of this can be achieved in a shorted, more intense course but 'Nails' now have an approved and recommended career path, possibly leading to a degree in the future.

In the meantime, sites like this and threads discussing courses are invaluable. So long as they don't get personal!

Congratulations on your attitude but please take into account what the future of the industry really needs.

Marian (Newman)

 

[Gordon Rice]

I sorry guys, this is an excerpt from a private e-mail to an ex student. It states that no branded products will contain MMA because no nail product manufacturer, to my knowlege, uses it. That includes all sculptured products. It definitely is not present in UV acrylics, which was the point I was trying to make at the time.

There does not seem to be any reason to tell students about MMA as, unless they purposefully go out looking for it they won't come across it anyway. Try to buy it from manufacturers or suppliers and they will probably make you sign a statement to say you will not be using it for nails extensions and they will not be responsible if you do. I had long talks with many people in the industry when researching it for the EHO.