Hi... I'm Tinxy and I'm one of the "horrid" one day coursers! :)

[Rebeccasbeauty]

Interesting thread- I have done both and I hardly think a lot can be compared. I did 2 years for Nvqs and found it imperative. I had a fantastic tutor if your weren't in it you where out . As soon as I left college I went strait into work I did not need to perfect my skills as you do practical for 6 months and perfected them while training. I personally don't think you can learn massage facials the whole depth of manicures pedicures electrolysis in day courses doesn't mean I look down on people who do, it's just something I wouldn't.
I have however done day courses in lashes gelish, AND if I'm honest the lashes I went back and retrained again as a day wasn't enough I firstly trained with marvel then went with lash perfect on their conversion. I will also be doing the pro course. Gelish fine for one day as I learnt all the basic to nails so there's no chance I can damage clients nails.

Someone earlier mentioned taking 2 days to set up a trolley personally find that an insult one thing training for a long time does drill into a therapist how important the little things are, Sanitisation, consultation, preparation, can you realise the importance of this in one day as in lashes and gels it was 'touched' upon. You could say its common sense but apparently not having seen how therapists work.

This is just all my opinion and as I said before I don't look down on people that do short courses I think there's a market for it in certain things just not everything x

 

[*Lisa-Marie*]

Funnily enough - I got an email from " the big daily deal company' - a local groupon if you like- offering a " one day acrylic nail course - you could run your own acrylic nail business" £99! Pah ha ha!![/QUOTE]

All my courses have been one day including my 1st which was acrylic 5 years go. I picked it up straight away and had a full day of one on one tutoring by a highly accredited and recommended tutor. I now run my own salon from home offering a wide range of services and am frequently told by my clients that I am by far the best in the area ( which boasts 8 salons) my clients have informed me that many of these salons hire girls who for want of a better phrase 'can't be arsed' and chat between each other while doing treatments and are generally awful at their jobs. Anyway I digress, my point is that you can't say that you can't learn something in a day, on my acrylic course I learnt the technique, contra indications, of which we looked at 10 case studies, salon hygiene, diff types of nail and how to cater to them etc following my course I went away and practised so much that I could probably do it blindfolded! It is all down to the person!! I was given excellent training and as a result am an excellent technician and to be honest I really don't see how anyone could spend more than one day learning this... Practising ( which I have heard is mainly what you do in college) yes but learning.. Really? I think it is something tht people get far to snobby about when it's really not worth it, people learn in different ways, stick me in a classroom for a year and I would prob learn sod all due to distractions and boredom, one day is enough for me thank you

 

[Rebeccasbeauty]

Funnily enough - I got an email from " the big daily deal company' - a local groupon if you like- offering a " one day acrylic nail course - you could run your own acrylic nail business" £99! Pah ha ha!!

All my courses have been one day including my 1st which was acrylic 5 years go. I picked it up straight away and had a full day of one on one tutoring by a highly accredited and recommended tutor. I now run my own salon from home offering a wide range of services and am frequently told by my clients that I am by far the best in the area ( which boasts 8 salons) my clients have informed me that many of these salons hire girls who for want of a better phrase 'can't be arsed' and chat between each other while doing treatments and are generally awful at their jobs. Anyway I digress, my point is that you can't say that you can't learn something in a day, on my acrylic course I learnt the technique, contra indications, of which we looked at 10 case studies, salon hygiene, diff types of nail and how to cater to them etc following my course I went away and practised so much that I could probably do it blindfolded! It is all down to the person!! I was given excellent training and as a result am an excellent technician and to be honest I really don't see how anyone could spend more than one day learning this... Practising ( which I have heard is mainly what you do in college) yes but learning.. Really? I think it is something tht people get far to snobby about when it's really not worth it, people learn in different ways, stick me in a classroom for a year and I would prob learn sod all due to distractions and boredom, one day is enough for me thank you [/QUOTE]

doing nail ext is a week at college, 80 percent of which is practical again not something that can be compared to training to do facials ect.. Which is the sort of treatments you need to be highly educated to to preform properly , nails lashes gels is a different story

 

[Rebeccasbeauty]

.. Really? I think it is something tht people get far to snobby about when it's really not worth it, people learn in different ways, stick me in a classroom for a year and I would prob learn sod all due to distractions and boredom, one day is enough for me thank you

Just out of interested if you removed a clients set of nails, an the had white spots, hang nail, deep ridges, a black mark, and they asked why and what to do would you know? google? Send to a beautician or re-apply a new set?

 

[cabinkel]

I have found this thread very interesting, from various points of view!
As a salon owner, I am often interviewing for staff. The first point of application for potential staff members is a cv. Now, while it wouldnt totally put me off a candidate if they had only done 1 day courses, I will be honest and say that I would be very wary!!
My reasons are varied, but the main one being that I would question how they could possibly have the knowledge and experience in one day, that is obtained in a years/3 year full time course.
I also have a massive bug bear, (and I admit it is tarring everyone with the same brush) with people that see beauty as an easy option, to "earn a bit of cash" when they have kids etc. There isnt always the passion, just the potential pound signs! I have actualy had clients say to me that they "did a few courses" in beauty as I made it look an easy way to earn cash. They havent considered the years of college, the additional 2 courses a year that I attend, the 11 years of learning my craft in salons and then from a home salon, my business and finance degree obtained and regular product house training that I do every 6 months.
I also find it frustrating that in the beauty industry, we are constantly battling the stereotype that we are dim, and I feel that the perception that you can learn this job, in a day, really dosent help with this!!
Although I do sympathise with therapists that feel they are "looked down on" for doing one day courses, its also hard for successful therapists/salon owners who feel that people think it is an easy/quick industry.
My battle though is really with the people who accredit the courses. There is no "test" of the course providers to make sure they are competent in their field. A prime example of this - a local salon owner to me asked if she could book onto advanced lash training, as she felt her knowledge was very basic, she then put a sign on her salon website saying - "Lash training coming soon in our new Academy" She really could get a course accredited, even though she herself was very inexperienced
Needless to say, she will not be having training with me :biggrin:
Its an industry battle for me, rather than aimed at the therapists

great debate though xxx

 

[*Lisa-Marie*]

Just out of interested if you removed a clients set of nails, an the had white spots, hang nail, deep ridges, a black mark, and they asked why and what to do would you know? google? Send to a beautician or re-apply a new set?

Dont really see the point in quizzing me lol as would have to see the nails in question to assess what I would do, why would I send to a beautician.. I am a beautician lol

 

[essentia]

Where is the pride and the satisfaction? Why do some want everything in a short space of time for the least amount of effort and cost?

I am glad I did my training FT. I admit that some standards seem to have dropped than when I qualified in 1984. The courses have been so stripped down that the essence of them have been lost. Over a 5 day FT course I learnt theory, learn treatments, science and cosmetic science, A&P, art classes including colour form and symmetry, running a salon, exercise and diet, went to Beauty shows, practise on clients etc, etc. How can this be the same experience as a one day or very short course?

A one day course will be extremley valuable to an already qualified practitioner as an add on to skills.

Otherwise:

The true amount of knowledge cannot be delivered and learnt in a short time
Practise and application of theory cannot be mastered and monitored in a short space of time.
Group interaction which always poses questions that you have not thought of cannot be experienced
Wide selection of clients cannot be experienced
Correction and mentoring of technique cannot be acheived with no one looking on

It is just a fact. It also devalues the industry. Look at how the market has flooded with 'therapists' and short courses.

I do not see why those who advocate longer and fuller training should apologise or justify it...

 

[Tinxy]

I also find it frustrating that in the beauty industry, we are constantly battling the stereotype that we are dim, and I feel that the perception that you can learn this job, in a day, really dosent help with this!!

I'm sorry to say that it's not just this industry... It's no easier in a male dominated world to prove that as a woman we are not dim - I don't think it's a beauty therapist perception, but a stereo typing of women as much as what we do AND how we look. I still stereo type... it's built in to us as humans. I see someone in a skirt (belt...), tight low cut top and boots and a (bad) fake tan and more make up than I own (and I own a lot!) and I think "chav"... and by that I mean uneducated and unsophisticated and basically very dim and slutty. Anyone with that amount of time to apply make up and strut round town during working hours clearly doesn't have a job and is on benefits...
Yet I know deep down that SOME may accurately fit that but NOT all... however I still judge...

I may have changed a few peoples perception when I worked in IT - at least I hope so. I did my job and people always joked that we worked part time, never looked unduly stressed and it must be an easy job. Then one of them transferred across and had the shock of his life! what people DIDN'T see were the reports being generated at 10pm, the calls because the network had problems - at ANY time, there was NO off time - and the pure hell we went through in front of MDs and other directors, the endless hours of compiling reports, reading contracts and everything else including staying on top of the technology... Customers too - you want in in a skirt as the only female then chances are the whole conversation will be made to your colleague or any other bloke that is with you... so much so that when I took over an account they were affronted that they had been "downgraded" as I was younger and female... I had to point out to them that actually I was senior in that role to the person I had replaced... they still insisted on referring to him as a senior xxx and me just an xxx. Why? well because I was a girl and he was a bloke in his late 40's.

Interestingly I even had a client ask me half jokingly who I'd slept with to get my job... and that was when I realised that I had nothing left to prove to these people... I would ALWAYS be viewed as someone unfit to play with them because I'm a girl. So I picked something I WANTED to do that I know will eventually make me happy Where people don't automatically assume I'm dumb and got to where I am because I slept with someone!

So... stereotyping - we can only change it if people are ready to change their perceptions and it will be a slow and tedious battle won one person at a time

So on top of the dim those of us having gone in through one day courses are also stereotyped by "our own"... I'm just asking that instead of tarring us as bad therapists we start judging on merit... same as I need to put down my own views on NVQs based on what I have seen in a totally different field

 

[*Lisa-Marie*]

It's not that people who studied at college are wrong for doing so at all it's the judgemental attitude towards people who study differently, just perfectly shown by comments about how much effort is put in. It's ridiculous to assume that 'one day coursers' don't put effort in!! There is no excuse for generalising and stereotyping people who do one day courses as lazy and money grabbing yes there are some girls who let the side down by seeing beauty as the easy option but why should we all be tarred

 

[lila22]

Where is the pride and the satisfaction? Why do some want everything in a short space of time for the least amount of effort and cost?

I am glad I did my training FT. I admit that some standards seem to have dropped than when I qualified in 1984. The courses have been so stripped down that the essence of them have been lost. Over a 5 day FT course I learnt theory, learn treatments, science and cosmetic science, A&P, art classes including colour form and symmetry, running a salon, exercise and diet, went to Beauty shows, practise on clients etc, etc. How can this be the same experience as a one day or very short course?

A one day course will be extremley valuable to an already qualified practitioner as an add on to skills.

Otherwise:

The true amount of knowledge cannot be delivered and learnt in a short time
Practise and application of theory cannot be mastered and monitored in a short space of time.
Group interaction which always poses questions that you have not thought of cannot be experienced
Wide selection of clients cannot be experienced
Correction and mentoring of technique cannot be acheived with no one looking on

It is just a fact. It also devalues the industry. Look at how the market has flooded with 'therapists' and short courses.

I do not see why those who advocate longer and fuller training should apologise or justify it...

I totally agree, i was begining to feel like my 2yr NVQ was worthless reading all this but like i said i learnt in depth, but there is no right or wrong way to learn at the end of the day, i myself know i will give 100% into what i do and the feedback i get im very happy with, although i will always see room for improvement. I guess if your clients are happy and they keep coming back that is what matters. xx

 

[Tinxy]

I do not see why those who advocate longer and fuller training should apologise or justify it...

I don't think anyone is asking for apologies - personally (as I can't speak for others!) what I am asking is that people don't judge without thinking. I have little/no respect for NVQs based on previous industries I have been in, it looks like it might be something mirrored in the beauty industry.

What I am TRYING to get across is instead of therapists bickering amongst ourselves all the time which is exactly what happens time and time again - why don't we try and be constructive!

Ok - we think day courses need to be better regulated? We think EVERYONE including NVQ qualified need to sit some sort of "capability" test?
Right... HOW can we practicably implement something like this? How can we try to get the backing of the industry and present a workable solution instead of constantly playing the "I'm better than you" game which gets us no-where other than creating a wider gulf between therapists when we should be working towards a common goal...

 

[cabinkel]

Ok - we think day courses need to be better regulated? We think EVERYONE including NVQ qualified need to sit some sort of "capability" test?
Right... HOW can we practicably implement something like this? How can we try to get the backing of the industry and present a workable solution instead of constantly playing the "I'm better than you" game which gets us no-where other than creating a wider gulf between therapists when we should be working towards a common goal...

I totally agree with this, (apart from the last bit, I do not think Im better, but I do think my qualifications are more industry recognised, be it right or wrong)
Unfortunately, like in most industry's, money talks. If people are willing to pay for accreditation of courses, the accreditation providers will tick the box. When I got my course accredited, I had to supply a copy of my qualified teaching cert, and I think my original training cert, and that was it. I wasnt asked to provide proof of my "field" competence at all. Nor did they ask that i had a minimum of 3-4-5 years (whatever) time of active treatment providing. It was just, thanks for your cash, have a nice time.
Im not sure how/if it will change, but it would be fab if it did.:Love:

 

[cabinkel]

I'm sorry to say that it's not just this industry... It's no easier in a male dominated world to prove that as a woman we are not dim - I don't think it's a beauty therapist perception, but a stereo typing of women as much as what we do AND how we look. I still stereo type... it's built in to us as humans.

just as a point of interest, when I was leaving school, many moons ago lol, I also saw the reverse of this stereotype. I was deemed to be "bright" at school, and when I had my careers talk at school with the Head, I expressed that I would like to work on the cruise ships, providing beauty treatments. With a flick of his hand, he said, "that is a job for girls with no brains Kerry, not for you". That was end of discussion as far as he was concerned. Im not sure this has changed much as I know in the schools now, if a person is not proving to be academic, they put them in "vocational training" of beauty and hair. Great to see they are changing perceptions lol

 

[Rebeccasbeauty]

Not quizzing just interested to know if you learnt all this in your one day course and would be able to advise clients of the conditions and help treat . Last I knew a nail technician wasn't a beautician

 

[pinkfairy]

Hiya have you had a read through the 2 other big threads currently discussing this topic? Lots of opinions on them! xx

 

[izzidoll]

I have merged the 2 threads as they are the same topic.

 

[jcpark]

I have found this thread very interesting, from various points of view!
As a salon owner, I am often interviewing for staff. The first point of application for potential staff members is a cv. Now, while it wouldnt totally put me off a candidate if they had only done 1 day courses, I will be honest and say that I would be very wary!!
My reasons are varied, but the main one being that I would question how they could possibly have the knowledge and experience in one day, that is obtained in a years/3 year full time course.
I also have a massive bug bear, (and I admit it is tarring everyone with the same brush) with people that see beauty as an easy option, to "earn a bit of cash" when they have kids etc. There isnt always the passion, just the potential pound signs! I have actualy had clients say to me that they "did a few courses" in beauty as I made it look an easy way to earn cash. They havent considered the years of college, the additional 2 courses a year that I attend, the 11 years of learning my craft in salons and then from a home salon, my business and finance degree obtained and regular product house training that I do every 6 months.
I also find it frustrating that in the beauty industry, we are constantly battling the stereotype that we are dim, and I feel that the perception that you can learn this job, in a day, really dosent help with this!!
Although I do sympathise with therapists that feel they are "looked down on" for doing one day courses, its also hard for successful therapists/salon owners who feel that people think it is an easy/quick industry.
My battle though is really with the people who accredit the courses. There is no "test" of the course providers to make sure they are competent in their field. A prime example of this - a local salon owner to me asked if she could book onto advanced lash training, as she felt her knowledge was very basic, she then put a sign on her salon website saying - "Lash training coming soon in our new Academy" She really could get a course accredited, even though she herself was very inexperienced
Needless to say, she will not be having training with me :biggrin:
Its an industry battle for me, rather than aimed at the therapists

great debate though xxx

I agree with everything you say, but particularly that the real problem lies with those that accredit or run these courses. My sympathies lie with therapists who are led to believe they are gaining a recognised qualification that will be sufficient to provide a professional service. I can understand why they are tempted, long term training is expensive and time consuming. While I have no doubt that there are those talented and driven enough to succeed and become good, this misses the point. A qualification is just that - proof that you have achieved a certain level of knowledge and competence to perform a skill. You don't get GCSE or A levels by just attending the course. You don't get given a degree by just turning up to lectures. The same applies to the many and varied professional qualifications, so why should beauty be different. How can you attend a day course, go through a routine and suddenly be 'qualified'. I appreciate that many how are passionate about it will research further, especially with the advent of the internet (when I originally trained there was no internet ) but this too is hit and miss - anyone can write anything on the internet.

What I am TRYING to get across is instead of therapists bickering amongst ourselves all the time which is exactly what happens time and time again - why don't we try and be constructive!

I can see why you may think it bickering but it is genuine concern. I hated having to turn away therapists because they did not have sufficient qualifications. Genuinely nice people who had invested time and money getting what they thought was a qualification. It is not easy trying to explain that their training is insufficient to do a professional job. That they will probably get some work eventually from someone but they would be better off retraining and sadly, while they may have enjoyed their course and learnt something, they would have been better off (both financially as well as for their career) to have done a good course to start with.

I'm not sure who regulates beauty in the UK - is it Habia? For massage and other holistic therapies it is CNHC. It is voluntary and I cannot see it compulsory regulation being introduced in the UK. CNHC works closely with the relevant professional organisations so would advise anyone who wants to train in these industries to contact them and ask what the national occupational standards are for courses.
Details can also be found here.
Welcome to the National Occupational Standards (NOS) database

 

[*Lisa-Marie*]

Yes I did cover it and do know how to consult clients about problems they may have. I'm qualified in other beauty treatments too not just nails

 

[Rebeccasbeauty]

Yes I did cover it and do know how to consult clients about problems they may have. I'm qualified in other beauty treatments too not just nails

That's great if you can offer advice as you learnt enough and it works for you your clients are happy and you earn money

 

[jcpark]

All my courses have been one day including my 1st which was acrylic 5 years go. I picked it up straight away and had a full day of one on one tutoring by a highly accredited and recommended tutor. I now run my own salon from home offering a wide range of services and am frequently told by my clients that I am by far the best in the area ( which boasts 8 salons) my clients have informed me that many of these salons hire girls who for want of a better phrase 'can't be arsed' and chat between each other while doing treatments and are generally awful at their jobs. Anyway I digress, my point is that you can't say that you can't learn something in a day, on my acrylic course I learnt the technique, contra indications, of which we looked at 10 case studies, salon hygiene, diff types of nail and how to cater to them etc following my course I went away and practised so much that I could probably do it blindfolded! It is all down to the person!! I was given excellent training and as a result am an excellent technician and to be honest I really don't see how anyone could spend more than one day learning this... Practising ( which I have heard is mainly what you do in college) yes but learning.. Really? I think it is something tht people get far to snobby about when it's really not worth it, people learn in different ways, stick me in a classroom for a year and I would prob learn sod all due to distractions and boredom, one day is enough for me thank you

I'm sure you are excellent at what you do, and I know nothing about nails - being a massage therapist, my nails are short and haven't touched nail polish for nearly 20 years From what you say you practiced hard to achieve the techniques, however, was that not AFTER you officially qualified? All the one/two day/short massage courses I am aware of give the qualification certificate on the same day - no practice, no assessment, simply running through the routine. I'm not suggesting that it is necessary to take a year to do nails (I have no idea what a realistic time frame is), but can assure you that if you learn massage (proper massage not just a routine) you would not have time to get distracted or bored over a year - there is so much to learn, none of which can be learnt in a few days.

Some people will succeed regardless due to talent and extra hard work, but that is not the issue. All the research, practice, assessing outcomes etc. should come WHILE training so that, while we never stop learning (I am required to do CPD by my professional association), gaining a qualification means that a certain professional standard has been met. As it stands now, many qualifications are nothing more than a certificate of attendence.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not judging anyone, the fault lies with the industry and the training.