How long to leave toner on?

[jameswhite]

There is no level 11 or 12 for that matter. If you actually read the product literature, most color houses state that clearly, the 11 and 12's are used to denote the additional lifting power added to these shades.

So why do they have semi permanent level 11? Which dont lift just deposit?

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[cassies97]

Thats a 8
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Thats exactly the same as the 10

 

[Sugarplumfaery]

Definitely never taken you that way TSparkler. Love our little community on SG!

I do use CT to tone but not much for my pastel toning. Saying that 10/6 is my go-to if scalp is sensitized

 

[jameswhite]

Omg why am i having to defend myself over nothing. I asked a question. What a joke.

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[Sugarplumfaery]

Jameswhite, I answered you I promise! I see your from Brisbane. I did my apprenticeship there with Oscar Oscar like 20 years ago!

 

[cassies97]

Definitely never taken you that way TSparkler. Love our little community on SG!

I do use CT to tone but not much for my pastel toning. Saying that 10/6 is my go-to if scalp is sensitized

Love 10/6

 

[cassies97]

Omg why am i having to defend myself over nothing. I asked a question. What a joke.

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You don't need to defend yourself.

Just admit you're in the wrong.

There is no level 11. If you're confident theres a level 11... What would the undertone be? If a 10 is very pale yellow can you get any lighter?

 

[Sugarplumfaery]

And in all fairness to Cam, this is a regular snipe of Salon Geeks... The 'there is no level 11 or 12' argument. Because there isn't. It refers to highlift tints only meaning that there is more ammonia over an ordinary tint.

Don't take it personally. I offended someone yesterday unintentionally. Remember it's hard to perceive tone in written words sometimes. We are all just trying to be helpful. Promise!

 

[jameswhite]

Yeah but matrix have a 11 level permanent and demi and the have ul for highlift aswell and also have a pastel toning system.They are a nice salon.

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[Sugarplumfaery]

Don't worry! I think your question has been answered. This is an argument that will never really be settled. Different courses for different horses. I've only ever dabbled in Mattix.

 

[cassies97]

Yeah but matrix have a 11 level permanent and demi and the have ul for highlift aswell and also have a pastel toning system.They are a nice salon.

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Maybe thats what their 11 line is for then? A less dense toning system? But in all honesty that swatch of the 10 is no where near a 10

 

[jameswhite]

So if there are say level 10/0 pieces which are creamy and pieces that are a 8/34 copper (im trying to convert to wella lol) what would i tone with its impossible to seperate and i dont want the blonde pieces to 8/81 but wont i have to tone a 8 to get the copper out?

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[cassies97]

So if there are say level 10/0 pieces which are creamy and pieces that are a 8/34 copper (im trying to convert to wella lol) what would i tone with its impossible to seperate and i dont want the blonde pieces to 8/81 but wont i have to tone a 8 to get the copper out?

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So the tops a 10 and the sides are an 8?

 

[Sugarplumfaery]

matrix 11 says highlift.

 

[tsparker78]

Definitely never taken you that way TSparkler. Love our little community on SG!

I do use CT to tone but not much for my pastel toning. Saying that 10/6 is my go-to if scalp is sensitized

I'm glad! And so do I! I've recently taken a couple clients slightly darker and warmer and really agonized over the choice between illumina and ct. In the end i chose color touch because it is so gentle.

 

[tsparker78]

So why do they have semi permanent level 11? Which dont lift just deposit?

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I don't know, i don't use matrix, but i bet the product literature will tell you. My guess is that the 11 has either a lighter or possibly even a heavier dye load than the 10. But as has been stated earlier, the undercoat of a level 10 is pale yellow, and hair that is still attched to the head will always only lighten to pale yellow. Even if i were to bleach a natural 9, the hair if left untoned would still be pale yellow.

After glancing at some of the product literature, I'd say the no lift 11 is meant to indicate a sheer result. Pure pigment without a base meant for pastel toning of hair prelightened to pale yellow, level 10.

 

[jameswhite]

So should i tone with 8av

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[cassies97]

So should i tone with 8av

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No, are the sides an 8 and the tops a 10?

 

[cassies97]

I don't know, i don't use matrix, but i bet the product literature will tell you. My guess is that the 11 has either a lighter or possibly even a heavier dye load than the 10. But as has been stated earlier, the undercoat of a level 10 is pale yellow, and hair that is still attched to the head will always only lighten to pale yellow. Even if i were to bleach a natural 9, the hair if left untoned would still be pale yellow.

After glancing at some of the product literature, I'd say the no lift 11 is meant to indicate a sheer result. Pure pigment without a base meant for pastel toning of hair prelightened to pale yellow, level 10.

Did you know its actually white but the keratin in the hair affects the end result?

Cause the melanins actually gone but the keratins still there!

 

[Sugarplumfaery]

Ooooh I love all this! Kirsty (Vivaglam) and I are about to do the Sexy Science course with Wella. Cam you should join us. And Adamlea!