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How to give advice...and take it!

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PixieBeauty

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This is something I've been thinking about for a while now as I trawl through the geek threads. I really want to bring up (again) the topic of how to give advice!! It makes me cringe when I see some of the responses to people's questions and also the amount of questions that start with "sorry if I sound stupid" or "sorry for asking". I can't bear to read that in posts, I've done it myself I know and I reckon a lot of it comes from people having read other responses that frankly seem like "As IF you don't know the answer".

A plea to all (from one who gives advice for a living!) to please think about your immediate reactions to questions. Often the first answer is to ask more questions.

Just because somebody doesn't know an obvious step in a procedure, are they trained? If not, they need pointing in the right direction of training. Why are they in a pro forum if they're not trained? Hey, I bet there's loads of those geeks out there. That's a bigger debate but jumping down someone's throat without asking further is not the way to entice them to learn properly, and bring them into the fold. I started as an untrained lurker and then after researching went on & trained with a top brand. Shouldn't that be the aim for posters like that?

If somebody disagrees with a fundamental rule of your industry, ask where they learned this, why do they think that? If somebody comes in asking how to get into the industry quickly to make a fast buck - don't get annoyed! Try educate them. Why would that annoy you, it's not an insult just misinformation on their part - here is your chance to put them right (it ain't that easy, but if you really wanna know here's where the info is).

I am not having a go, and I love it when I read a thread where a geek has taken the time to put somebody right, and the majority do!! But for those that feel its more important to point out that "it's obvious as there are a million threads on this", would it really be more difficult to say "there's a wealth of info out there if you use the search facility, here's how"?? Don't assume the person is lazy but may well not know about it.

Yes I know the geek rules are there for one and all but if I'm honest, I didn't read all the T's and C's when I signed up for my Hotmail account; they may not realise how valuable the 'rules' are.

If you know an answer to something - do not assume it is obvious. I have seen many an experienced nail geek take a full post to outline something very basic and not be condescending. If they can do that after all this time, so can I. If you think something is obvious (as an adviser) it should prompt you to think "then why do they not know that". Often when someone asks advice there is more to the question.

So on to those asking advice - a plea!
Take it all on board!!!
Take it as if it's written with positive regard.
Answer people's follow up questions, get involved in the debate that may ensue and don't get defensive after all, none of us know everything!
Thank those that bother to try work out a solution with you and appreciate all the great advice available on here.

I myself am going to stop apologising for 'stupid questions'.

Most of all to those of you that clearly get frustrated with either questions OR answers...why? If you're annoyed then work out why, and either try re-educate, or don't post. Simples. You can't teach somebody effectively by having a go at them.

Apologies if the post waffled on...but then again you didn't have to read this far did you ;)

With respect xxx
 

fallonst23

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I completely agree with you, sometimes it's not what has been said it's how it is said ;-)
 

jb78

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Great post - I get really annoyed at the way some geeks speak to others - everyone is learning, everyone has the right to ask questions and to be honest - what is a stupid question? I don't think any questions, if it's related to the topic or industry, is a stupid question - its just people being at different stages in their learning.

I also think we need to remember that not everyone is as confident as the next person and to write a post on here, especially asking a question, may have taken a bit of courage - especially newbies, so please don't jump down someone's throat - they may never post again!!

I always advice people to use the search button at the top - I have to say, when I joined, I didn't read any instructions or T&C, so it was trial and error working the site out.

Please can we all be considerate to each other... we all had to start somewhere remember :)

Xx
 

*Lisa-Marie*

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Agree completely! I almost left this site for this very reason. People don't come here to be made a target of of belittled they're here to learn. I get a bit sick of the 'I'm higher up in the industry therefore I'm better than you' attitude. People need to remember that we are ALL people!
Everyone just needs to chill out and be nice! :)
X
 

sarahlou06

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Agree completely! I almost left this site for this very reason. People don't come here to be made a target of of belittled they're here to learn. I get a bit sick of the 'I'm higher up in the industry therefore I'm better than you' attitude. People need to remember that we are ALL people!
Everyone just needs to chill out and be nice! :)
X
Amen!
 

*Lisa-Marie*

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Some people need to tone it down a notch and not take everything so seriously I think. More and more people are getting scared or nervous about asking questions because of arsey replies and I didn't think that was what this site was about. :( quite sad really.
 

PixieBeauty

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I agree a few people comment on thinking about leaving, and you can pick up on people being nervous about asking questions which, on the face of it, is ridiculous! Shouldn't be like that.

Would be a shame as it's a fantastic tool for learning!
 

Chickafish

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I think the best way to go about forums is to just leave all feelings out. When people put feelings and emotions behind each reply it just gets ugly and personal, and nothing gets answered. While there are people here afraid to ask questions, there are also people here afraid to give answers for the very same reason.

This site is a wonderful tool, and a great place for professionals to gather, teach, and learn off one another, but recently, it's been feeling like walking on eggshells everytime I want to ask a question or reply to one because I'm afraid someone might take offense to something. I really feel it's best not to read too much into the words, but to gather the bits of information because information has no tone. I try not to read with tone because I don't personally know everyone here. Maybe a person chose such wordings because English isn't their first language and they're writing in English how it's said in their native tongue, maybe they're not the best writer or are good with words but still wanted to help. It could be anything. I'm pretty bad with wording, and I've recently had to read what I write at least 3x's over just to make sure it makes sense and isn't gonna offend anyone who might read too much into my words, and I feel it shouldn't have to be like this. I'll probably never meet half the people I've spoken to on here, but they're willing to take time out their day to answer my question for free which I think is pretty awesome. I've never stopped to think how they're wording it or what mood they might've been in when they wrote a response. I'm just glad they're answering instead of saying "your training must've sucked cuz they didn't even teach you that!"

I think the best way to avoid any of this is to familiarise ourselves with the site and all its functions, and teach other newcomers to as well starting with the search function, articles and tutorials section (which I feel is one of the best sections that gets overlooked WAY too often), forum behaviours and rules, and with some of the regular members of the forum (because I feel many of us have strong personalities that can easily be taken the wrong way). The only time I ever thought someone got snide remarks for replies was when someone openly said she was "too lazy" to search for the answer and hadn't even filled in her profile so we didn't know anything about how much training she'd had or what system she was familiar with, which I thought was a bit rude. It's unfair to not thoroughly research and just ask like that, and expect someone to give a thoughtful reply. but anyway, I digress.

If you have a question, just ask! It's a genuine inquiry. You don't know the answer. And you need help, right? I'm an online gamer, and I've been on loads of forums. Trust me when I say this is, hands down, THE nicest forum I've ever been on. Its so nice, I actually take part in discussions and openly joke around. If you want to see true arrogance, ego, unhelpful responses, and trolls, browse through a game forum. :lol: you might not understand majority of what they're talking about, but you will understand most of them are pompous jerks.
 

PixieBeauty

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Beautifully summed up, as usual Chickafish (I'm intrigued by the ego's on the gamer forums!) xx
 

Chickafish

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Beautifully summed up, as usual Chickafish (I'm intrigued by the ego's on the gamer forums!) xx
Thank you xx And game forum trolls are the WORST! So rude for no reason, and always thinking they're better than everyone. They probably think they know more about the game than the developers! And it's funny when people react to them cuz it's like... it's just a game! :lol:
 

RebeccaQ

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I am a newbie and I have taken part in some threads, and yes, I do sometimes feel like an idiot and I do say 'sorry to sound so thick', but I have had some good responses. I would be very wary of posting a discussion myself, because, as you say, some Geeks can be very unkind. But they are in the minority. I have made some great 'friends' on here (some are training with the same company as me and a couple of others I have spoken with along the way) and I do consider them friends, when we are feeling nervous, worried or down then we pick each other up and when one is excited, it's infectious...I love coming on here and can honestly say I've learnt loads. So keep up the good work and keep advising...and when I do pluck up the courage to post a thread and start with the words 'this may be a really stupid question' please answer nicely :biggrin: xx
 

PixieBeauty

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Haha I'm sure people will be nice :D ignore the ones that aren't!
 

RebeccaQ

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Thank you, great piece of advice :biggrin: xx
 

tanfastic

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I do apologise if I have been one of those insensitive sorts at times but Chickafish has given me the perfect excuse.:)

I can be a little "short" at times, even Dear old Hubby complains but I do come from quite an aggressive culture and in my homeland I am a push over. So if I have offended anyone, I havent singled anyone out, you are all fair game to me!!!!

HA HA HA, evil laugh echoing in the background.
 

jimjamjarz

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Couldn't agree more with this thread, I get nervous to reply sometimes about certain things because I think 'there's so many way of doing the same thing in a different way' and get a bit scared some of the higher up geeks will boom down in a great voice 'why the hell would you do that i do it like THIS'

Lol I'm just kiddin but you know what I mean? Good thread to get people thinking before they reply :) xxxx
 

PixieBeauty

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I find it's not always the more experienced geeks - quite often they will display more professionalism and have that experience of there's many ways to do something.

It's the ones, whoever they are, who just head first go on the attack (or defense) that I can't understand-there's no need.

I'm not saying people need to pussy-foot around but I do think courtesy is a basic and a must. JMO (glad im not the only one that thinks so) xxx
 

RebeccaQ

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I agree, sometimes people can be a bit 'short' when they reply, I don't mind this...it's to the point and I am the sort of person that loves constructive criticism (emphasis on constructive) and if the advice is relevant then that's great. But being to the point or being rude are two different things.

Tanfastic..I never feel your posts are rude, you are 'to the point' and I respect that so don't change :D xx
 

tanfastic

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I agree, sometimes people can be a bit 'short' when they reply, I don't mind this...it's to the point and I am the sort of person that loves constructive criticism (emphasis on constructive) and if the advice is relevant then that's great. But being to the point or being rude are two different things.

Tanfastic..I never feel your posts are rude, you are 'to the point' and I respect that so don't change :D xx
Oh dear I feel a " fast track PR course" in the offing, :twisted:


Thanks hon, you know I always try to be nice, I do believe that you ought to treat others the way you expect to be treated yourself and I have also sometimes thought that people can be a little harsh but then when you actually think about it, or go onto their profiles and see that they actually have never bothered to help themselves, or you come across similar threads by the same person in a space of a few hours all asking the same type of thing, after having had advice from some of the best in our industry it does make you understand why the mollycoddling has to stop sometimes.

We all start somewhere, and all need mentoring and advice from the great minds in our industry and this is a teaching/learning site so we HAVE to feel free to ask questions, but with that comes the surmise that we are going to be mature enough to take our "medicine" if that is what we need.

I for one appreciate the straight talking, life is too short to waste and being told that we are absolutely fabulous and have nothing left to learn is just turning us into more sheep following an absent shepherd.


Sorry if this offends anyone, but we are all adults and if we think we are man or woman enough to run our own business and trade on our skills then we ought to be strong enough to face adversity. If it is a grumpy geek or a client threatening to sue us.

Right , that's me done. Anyone else want to get on the soap box now?
 

ilovelashes

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Great topic, i am a newbie here and am appalled at the way some of the so called "experts" reply to posts. They may be good at nails or whatever but their social skills are somewhat lacking and some replies are just rude.

Don't bother replying if the poster has offended u in some way for being inexperienced and asking a 'stupid question'. And for the record, if the poster knew the answer they wouldn't be posting. So to Start a reply with "you mean you don't know" is just uncalled for.

Other than that this site is a wealth of knowledge and has helped me a lot which is why I still come on every day x
 

RebeccaQ

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It's a great site and most people give really good answers and advice...totally addictive too xx
 
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