How to give advice...and take it!

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Great topic, i am a newbie here and am appalled at the way some of the so called "experts" reply to posts. They may be good at nails or whatever but their social skills are somewhat lacking and some replies are just rude.

Don't bother replying if the poster has offended u in some way for being inexperienced and asking a 'stupid question'. And for the record, if the poster knew the answer they wouldn't be posting. So to Start a reply with "you mean you don't know" is just uncalled for.

Other than that this site is a wealth of knowledge and has helped me a lot which is why I still come on every day x

I have been a member for years and have NEVER heard of a fellow geek telling anyone they have asked a stupid question!!!!

If the original poster of a question cant cope with the real world then they might want to stay away from professional teaching sites. Just my opinion, but I have a horrible feeling that this is just going to turn into one of those whinge fests.

We are all different and all deal with each other in different ways. Yes sometimes replies are a little scathing, but to be honest they are almost always justified. If members can't make the effort to research and expect a quick fix, what on earth do they expect? You only get out what you are prepared to put in. To be honest, professional business women and men are certainly not going to be offended by an inexperienced person only by a lazy person who wants it all passed them on a plate when we have paid our dues and learned our lessons the hard way at times.

How would you feel if I posted a question about lashes, something as basic as where the cheapest glue supplier was if i have had no training and was messing about with mates paying peanuts?

Would you be friendly?

Just one example
 
I really don't want it to turn into a whinge fest :D

I tried to start a genuine thread explaining how to give advice - not just to complain ;)

In answer to the example you've just given (a good example) one could either

Ignore it if you think it's not appropriate for this person to be here

Or

Explain simply that this is a pro forum and not somewhere that they will find that answer. Explain why they perhaps ought not be just doing their mate's lashes (I don't know a thing about lashes but if it were a nail example I'd quickly point out the risk of allergy & infection). Or why not point out the benefits of proper training.

Yes I agree the second option is more work BUT the second option is educating and teaching. If you don't want to do that then fine - just leave it.

I'm not talking just to you here Tanfastic I'm giving a general example - but I do think honestly, why does this annoy anyone? Yes if the poster then follows up with a series of 'stupid' responses fine, be blunt/abrupt/tell them this site isn't for them but I really don't think it's necessary in the first instance.

I agree I've never seen anyone write 'that's a stupid question' but they have come close - I've seen other examples such as "you claim to be trained yet you do not know this" or in the first answer to a question "wasn't this covered in your training???"

Or answers such as "there are a million threads on this already" - as I said originally a little more thought and time would benefit. Ok maybe the OP's training was cr@p!!! They're not gonna be happy about that. Maybe they did no research before their training - again their punishment is the fact they've wasted their money once. It's far more helpful to try point them in the right direction now isn't it?

I really am not saying we need to walk on egg shells here, but I do think if your answer isn't constructive then don't post it. Just because someone annoys you so what! As said above by Tanfastic we can be professional & leave it. There will always be messers in every industry there's no need to attack them IF there's a chance to educate them.

*Steps off soapbox for the next person*

Xx
 
I'm quite new... What is 'to the point' for one person, maybe 'belittling' to another..
The comment that is often 'have you searched' - if everyone did that the newly joined professionals would miss a chance to answer ( and keeping up to date on new answers or new opinions)?

Maybe a system like the hearts but for posts that an individual 'doesn't like' for the geeks that would like to show the mods if they feel affected?

I've had some excellent advice on here and respect that, love it ! But if anyone has an issue it should be addressed as its personal to them 😊
 
Great Thread!

At the end of the day this site wouldnt be needed if it werent for the newbies or less experienced needing advice! It would just be experts having basic chit chat!

If you havent got anything constructive to say just dont say it at all.
If you think a post is stupid or useless just dont reply and move on :green:

I have nearly been put off from posting before but why should I stop posting just because others dont know how to say things. Its no great shakes!

We should all get along and take advice as it comes x
 
I also think this is a great thread and one that needed to be posted!

When I first started out, I got my timings all wrong on a massage and ended up reducing the price for my client as I felt they had been short-changed. For me it felt like the right thing to do and the client seemed to appreciate it.

However, I was worried that I had come across as unprofressional and posted on the site for a bit of support and guidance. I had some lovely replies but one poster gave me a huge lecture and made me feel even worse! :(

I know some of the more experienced geeks pride themselves of being really "straight talking" or don't like to "sugar coat" things and like to "shoot from the hip" but frankly they come across as patronising, smug and downright rude at times. Some of them do the answering questions with a question and this sometimes gives the impression of putting someone down.

They seem to forget that we all have to start somewhere, make mistakes and need some support and help sometimes.

It has put me off posting or asking for advice at times. I always re-read my posts before posting and make sure that the tone is correct and what I want to convey.

Yes, this is a site for prefessionals but that doesn't mean unfriendly or rude.

As the lovely, diplomatic and wise Jacquelineanna always says...

Peace and respect! :D

PB
x
 
....and get a bit scared some of the higher up geeks will boom down in a great voice 'why the hell would you do that i do it like THIS'

Why you talkin' about me?!!!! Just kidding.

I'd like to add, take time to get to know our individual, unique personalities. Someone once said of me that she had to get use to my "American-ness." I'm a bit brash and I understand that. I'm not for everyone.

There are folks that I've really warmed up to on here and others that I haven't. I tend to avoid the threads of those for whom I don't feel a warm fuzzy because I'm not up for a war. That's not what SG is about.

Also, don't confuse debate with arguing. They are not one in the same. A healthy debate is a learning tool and shouldn't be taken personally.

Nothing on SG should ever be taken personally. Ever.
 
I'd like to add, take time to get to know our individual, unique personalities. Someone once said of me that she had to get use to my "American-ness." I'm a bit brash and I understand that. I'm not for everyone.

I'm used to your American-ness. It was your scouse brows and glitzy lips that needed some getting used to! :lol:
 
As an experienced tech, NOW... I can say with certainty, my training WAS CRAP. If it hasn't been for helpful peers, I'd have quit 3 weeks in and never been licensed. I was fortunate to meet a wonderful woman who taught me what she knew, and then fortunate, or unfortunate, depending on how you look at it, to work for a Vietnamese gentleman(term used loosely), where I learned what NOT to do. I still do random research, and there are no ce classes within a day of me, so its all online for me, until I'm rich enough to travel a bit.

Sent from my Desire HD using SalonGeek
 
This is something I've been thinking about for a while now as I trawl through the geek threads. I really want to bring up (again) the topic of how to give advice!! It makes me cringe when I see some of the responses to people's questions and also the amount of questions that start with "sorry if I sound stupid" or "sorry for asking". I can't bear to read that in posts, I've done it myself I know and I reckon a lot of it comes from people having read other responses that frankly seem like "As IF you don't know the answer".

A plea to all (from one who gives advice for a living!) to please think about your immediate reactions to questions. Often the first answer is to ask more questions.

Just because somebody doesn't know an obvious step in a procedure, are they trained? If not, they need pointing in the right direction of training. Why are they in a pro forum if they're not trained? Hey, I bet there's loads of those geeks out there. That's a bigger debate but jumping down someone's throat without asking further is not the way to entice them to learn properly, and bring them into the fold. I started as an untrained lurker and then after researching went on & trained with a top brand. Shouldn't that be the aim for posters like that?

If somebody disagrees with a fundamental rule of your industry, ask where they learned this, why do they think that? If somebody comes in asking how to get into the industry quickly to make a fast buck - don't get annoyed! Try educate them. Why would that annoy you, it's not an insult just misinformation on their part - here is your chance to put them right (it ain't that easy, but if you really wanna know here's where the info is).

I am not having a go, and I love it when I read a thread where a geek has taken the time to put somebody right, and the majority do!! But for those that feel its more important to point out that "it's obvious as there are a million threads on this", would it really be more difficult to say "there's a wealth of info out there if you use the search facility, here's how"?? Don't assume the person is lazy but may well not know about it.

Yes I know the geek rules are there for one and all but if I'm honest, I didn't read all the T's and C's when I signed up for my Hotmail account; they may not realise how valuable the 'rules' are.

If you know an answer to something - do not assume it is obvious. I have seen many an experienced nail geek take a full post to outline something very basic and not be condescending. If they can do that after all this time, so can I. If you think something is obvious (as an adviser) it should prompt you to think "then why do they not know that". Often when someone asks advice there is more to the question.

So on to those asking advice - a plea!
Take it all on board!!!
Take it as if it's written with positive regard.
Answer people's follow up questions, get involved in the debate that may ensue and don't get defensive after all, none of us know everything!
Thank those that bother to try work out a solution with you and appreciate all the great advice available on here.

I myself am going to stop apologising for 'stupid questions'.

Most of all to those of you that clearly get frustrated with either questions OR answers...why? If you're annoyed then work out why, and either try re-educate, or don't post. Simples. You can't teach somebody effectively by having a go at them.

Apologies if the post waffled on...but then again you didn't have to read this far did you ;)

With respect xxx

Fantastic post! Thank you for taking the time to post this. It's a better life when you are mindful.

I try to avoid joining forums because the off key remarks, and long time members can get away with saying what they want, often rude and negative, some other members don't pull them up however are quick to put down newer members. I don't like how some members get high levels of respect and others don't. Members too scared to say what they wanna say in case they are pushed into isolation. It's too clicky! Gone off subject slightly!

Not referring to SG necessarily.

Cheers.
 
Oh dear I feel a " fast track PR course" in the offing, :twisted:


Thanks hon, you know I always try to be nice, I do believe that you ought to treat others the way you expect to be treated yourself and I have also sometimes thought that people can be a little harsh but then when you actually think about it, or go onto their profiles and see that they actually have never bothered to help themselves, or you come across similar threads by the same person in a space of a few hours all asking the same type of thing, after having had advice from some of the best in our industry it does make you understand why the mollycoddling has to stop sometimes.

We all start somewhere, and all need mentoring and advice from the great minds in our industry and this is a teaching/learning site so we HAVE to feel free to ask questions, but with that comes the surmise that we are going to be mature enough to take our "medicine" if that is what we need.

I for one appreciate the straight talking, life is too short to waste and being told that we are absolutely fabulous and have nothing left to learn is just turning us into more sheep following an absent shepherd.


Sorry if this offends anyone, but we are all adults and if we think we are man or woman enough to run our own business and trade on our skills then we ought to be strong enough to face adversity. If it is a grumpy geek or a client threatening to sue us.

Right , that's me done. Anyone else want to get on the soap box now?

Interesting point of view!

We are different. We manifest differently. We react in accordance to how we were brought up. Our experiences good and bad or in-between can or will determine how our lives turn out. The most weakest person in appearance can be the most successful. Cause someone is asking a question that is deemed stupid, doesn't mean they are!

You prefer the straight talking route, good that works for you, not everyone is you. Don't forget we are all individuals and the best thing is to be mindful of a person you meet on-line or face to face.

Your reply sounds like it's more about you then people on here and their questions.

I'm not getting on my soap box. This post (in my opinion) is exactly trying to get away from the hard edge posts and getting out there to be nice to people, and of course to do search first, read the tutorials. Some people do this anyway but still have what is deemed stupid or annoying questions. So what! If anyone knows the answer give it, if you know the answer and you are in a bad mood, something is going on, don't give the answer with an attitude to take stuff out on other people. How many times have we done that!

Don't want this subject going to another level, just needed to say it.
 
I'm quite new... What is 'to the point' for one person, maybe 'belittling' to another..
The comment that is often 'have you searched' - if everyone did that the newly joined professionals would miss a chance to answer ( and keeping up to date on new answers or new opinions)?

Maybe a system like the hearts but for posts that an individual 'doesn't like' for the geeks that would like to show the mods if they feel affected?

I've had some excellent advice on here and respect that, love it ! But if anyone has an issue it should be addressed as its personal to them ��


Wouldn't it be good to have maybe a thumbs up or thumbs down option on posts, that way you can show you agree or like the poster's opinion, or you dislike or disagree. Just a suggetion. I sometimes wish I could give a thumbs down. Does anyone else agree or would it just cause more arguments and affect peoples confidence?
 
Interesting point of view!

We are different. We manifest differently. We react in accordance to how we were brought up. Our experiences good and bad or in-between can or will determine how our lives turn out. The most weakest person in appearance can be the most successful. Cause someone is asking a question that is deemed stupid, doesn't mean they are!

You prefer the straight talking route, good that works for you, not everyone is you. Don't forget we are all individuals and the best thing is to be mindful of a person you meet on-line or face to face.

Your reply sounds like it's more about you then people on here and their questions.

I'm not getting on my soap box. This post (in my opinion) is exactly trying to get away from the hard edge posts and getting out there to be nice to people, and of course to do search first, read the tutorials. Some people do this anyway but still have what is deemed stupid or annoying questions. So what! If anyone knows the answer give it, if you know the answer and you are in a bad mood, something is going on, don't give the answer with an attitude to take stuff out on other people. How many times have we done that!

Don't want this subject going to another level, just needed to say it.


Thanks for that hon, I wanted to heart your post but felt that I ought to reply, you do make valid pints and I do apologise if it seems as if I am being self absorbed or just talking about my personal opinion. I was trying to make a point. It is always nice to feel valued and accepted. I also used to be nervous of negative answers to my questions but I am quite hardened to "straight talking" Maybe it's my "Foreign-ness" So I do appreciate the honesty and absolutely love this site.

Sorry if it seems that I was high-jacking the post. I was only trying to air my opinion. :sad:
 
No worries. I like straight talking, but not everyone can take it, thats the point I was making, we have to be a bit gentle depending on who we talk to. I'm guilty of being rude, when I got 'stuff'.

This is a good post. So many posts on here and other sites start with the 'best intention' then other strong characters turn it into something else, then it's shut down. That's what annoys me. Man, people can get really funny lol

Everyone have a nice day. The weather has switched! At least we have the 'Salon Geek Family'
 
Although I can see the point about people replying needing to answer in an apropriate way, I also think that anyone reading the forum needs to remember that written words have no tone, you are reading the tone into the words and therefore the tone you have chosen may not be the way the poster meant it to read.

If you read something and feel it has a negative tone and think it's harsh, try reading it again with a smile on your face and see if it could be taken differently when read in a more positive way.

I know I have recently written a 'sharp' response to a thread. It is not a normal thing for me to do but I felt my response was apropriate to the thread. Yes my feelings did guide me in writing my response.

I feel that anyone posting needs to remember that people on this site give their time and wisdom freely and have lives, that sometimes are very, very busy or are not going smoothly but this should not mean people can't post responses.

Why should I sit and read but not reply to a thread if I feel I have something to say? I may have an issue in my personal life that is making me 'touchy' or 'angry' but does that mean I shouldn't be able to post on here? Does my opinion not count because I have 'upset feelings' I don't think so, my opinion should still be as valid as anyone elses, no matter what my feelings are.

I feel nobody should ever make posts personal and that if this happens the red boxes should definatley be used (reporting a post is why they are there) but remember to try and read it positivley first and see if there is actually good advice in there, if you can't read it positivley, find no good advice and you feel it is personal then report the post.

I think anyone posting on the site needs to remember that you will get honest answers and some of these may not be what you want to hear but that doesn't mean they are 'wrong' or 'short' or 'nasty' etc... sometimes there is no nice way to say what needs saying.

We shouldn't be afraid of posting anything - a question or a response.

We are all human and not everyone can get along, there will be personality clashes, there will be heated debates, there will be arguments as this site is so big and has a massive variation of people from all ages and walks of life. The important thing is to take away from the site everything you need, all the information you can and to learn as much as possible. Some of the lessons learned on the site may well be ablout how to deal with people or how not to do things or how do things in your personal life and these things (life lessons) are just as important to learn as learning skills for our industry.

Love and respect to ALL geeks, newbies or not. xxx
 
Although I can see the point about people replying needing to answer in an apropriate way, I also think that anyone reading the forum needs to remember that written words have no tone, you are reading the tone into the words and therefore the tone you have chosen may not be the way the poster meant it to read.

If you read something and feel it has a negative tone and think it's harsh, try reading it again with a smile on your face and see if it could be taken differently when read in a more positive way.

I know I have recently written a 'sharp' response to a thread. It is not a normal thing for me to do but I felt my response was apropriate to the thread. Yes my feelings did guide me in writing my response.

I feel that anyone posting needs to remember that people on this site give their time and wisdom freely and have lives, that sometimes are very, very busy or are not going smoothly but this should not mean people can't post responses.

Why should I sit and read but not reply to a thread if I feel I have something to say? I may have an issue in my personal life that is making me 'touchy' or 'angry' but does that mean I shouldn't be able to post on here? Does my opinion not count because I have 'upset feelings' I don't think so, my opinion should still be as valid as anyone elses, no matter what my feelings are.

I feel nobody should ever make posts personal and that if this happens the red boxes should definatley be used (reporting a post is why they are there) but remember to try and read it positivley first and see if there is actually good advice in there, if you can't read it positivley, find no good advice and you feel it is personal then report the post.

I think anyone posting on the site needs to remember that you will get honest answers and some of these may not be what you want to hear but that doesn't mean they are 'wrong' or 'short' or 'nasty' etc... sometimes there is no nice way to say what needs saying.

We shouldn't be afraid of posting anything - a question or a response.

We are all human and not everyone can get along, there will be personality clashes, there will be heated debates, there will be arguments as this site is so big and has a massive variation of people from all ages and walks of life. The important thing is to take away from the site everything you need, all the information you can and to learn as much as possible. Some of the lessons learned on the site may well be ablout how to deal with people or how not to do things or how do things in your personal life and these things (life lessons) are just as important to learn as learning skills for our industry.

Love and respect to ALL geeks, newbies or not. xxx

Here we go again ....

Later everyone! Be back on forum again, sometime NOT SOON.

When I do, will be READING stuff what I NEED, participating? Nah lol
 
Although I can see the point about people replying needing to answer in an apropriate way, I also think that anyone reading the forum needs to remember that written words have no tone, you are reading the tone into the words and therefore the tone you have chosen may not be the way the poster meant it to read.

If you read something and feel it has a negative tone and think it's harsh, try reading it again with a smile on your face and see if it could be taken differently when read in a more positive way.

I know I have recently written a 'sharp' response to a thread. It is not a normal thing for me to do but I felt my response was apropriate to the thread. Yes my feelings did guide me in writing my response.

I feel that anyone posting needs to remember that people on this site give their time and wisdom freely and have lives, that sometimes are very, very busy or are not going smoothly but this should not mean people can't post responses.

Why should I sit and read but not reply to a thread if I feel I have something to say? I may have an issue in my personal life that is making me 'touchy' or 'angry' but does that mean I shouldn't be able to post on here? Does my opinion not count because I have 'upset feelings' I don't think so, my opinion should still be as valid as anyone elses, no matter what my feelings are.

I feel nobody should ever make posts personal and that if this happens the red boxes should definatley be used (reporting a post is why they are there) but remember to try and read it positivley first and see if there is actually good advice in there, if you can't read it positivley, find no good advice and you feel it is personal then report the post.

I think anyone posting on the site needs to remember that you will get honest answers and some of these may not be what you want to hear but that doesn't mean they are 'wrong' or 'short' or 'nasty' etc... sometimes there is no nice way to say what needs saying.

We shouldn't be afraid of posting anything - a question or a response.

We are all human and not everyone can get along, there will be personality clashes, there will be heated debates, there will be arguments as this site is so big and has a massive variation of people from all ages and walks of life. The important thing is to take away from the site everything you need, all the information you can and to learn as much as possible. Some of the lessons learned on the site may well be ablout how to deal with people or how not to do things or how do things in your personal life and these things (life lessons) are just as important to learn as learning skills for our industry.

Love and respect to ALL geeks, newbies or not. xxx

Very well put, and so diplomatic. :)
Talking about the red box though, I tried it the other day to report a Text speaker/writer but it seems it is only to report spam or advertising and that sort of thing so I didn't report as I wasn't sure if it was the appropriate way to do it or to use the Private forum. Now I have lost that thread and didn't bother to report it after all but wish I had
 
Here we go again ....

Later everyone! Be back on forum again, sometime NOT SOON.

When I do, will be READING stuff what I NEED, participating? Nah lol

Why would you not participate?

What is it in my post that makes you feel this way? Please tell me as I have no idea what I said that could have made anyone feel bad and that was not my intention at all.
 
Very well put, and so diplomatic. :)
Talking about the red box though, I tried it the other day to report a Text speaker/writer but it seems it is only to report spam or advertising and that sort of thing so I didn't report as I wasn't sure if it was the appropriate way to do it or to use the Private forum. Now I have lost that thread and didn't bother to report it after all but wish I had

When you click on the red box it says: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts.

If a post is upsetting to you then it needs to be reported so the mods can check it and do what they need to do.
 
I would just like to say that I may not post that often but am on this site nearly every day. I have been given great advise and support and I am gratefull to everyone who has given their time to read and or reply to me. People forget that this site is free !!!!! And people who have great knowledge and experience give their time and advice to help others. In life everyone is different and we can't get on with everyone but I don't think there are many sites that are as good as SG and we should look after what we have.

That's all sorry to ramble on x
 
Why would you not participate?

What is it in my post that makes you feel this way? Please tell me as I have no idea what I said that could have made anyone feel bad and that was not my intention at all.

Yep, I'm lost on that one too Baggybear. I didn't read anything offensive in your post, I thought it was fair and well put.
 
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