How to work with really oily nails?

[rachirv]

hello everybody,
well my acyrlic nail course with nsi is going really well, im just building up my portfolio now. i am really pleased with the sets i have done and havent had many problems, until now. i am getting really stressed out- my sister has very very oily nail beds. gels wont stay on her, so shes been having acrylic tips on for quite a while now. they lift within a few days and end up coming off. so she said she would come to me since i am training so i put her a full set of tips on (i did them nice and short as she works on a computor) and within 9 days she has lost 5 nails.
i am feeling really disheartened as i really would love to be able to do a fab set of nails on her that last well. ay advise on how best to work with oily nails? xxx

 

[katiebbaby]

I would work with 2 nails at a time when doing them I remove non living tissue from all 10 nails and then just do 2 nails at a time by removing shine I sometimes if clients does not mind will etch nail only slightly and explain to client will help the product adhere more as her nail plates are extremeley oily, but only slightly, I also double prep by using a dehydrator such as nail fresh I then scrub fresh and then use nail prime only on 2 nails proceed with your products on them 2 nails and do this until all 10 nails are done.

Pay particular attention to your cuticle area and side walls, and recommend an appt every 10-14 days, think about the length and shape try making them less square more squavel this might help. And remember keep the product thin.

xxx

 

[VHunter]

I was under the impression that there was no such thing as 'oily nails' since nail beds don't have sebaceous glands?

Can Doug or Gigi confirm this one way or the other for us?

The only times I've seen that sort of thing hapen, we were able to determine the source of the problem and it was A) their health (due to medications they were taking) or B) heavy use of a hand cream overloaded with petrolatum/petroleum.

For the medication (it was a certain anti-depressant + thyroid medications) there was naught I could do and I was the last of a long list of techs she tried. Nothing stayed stuck.

For the other... the client's switched to natural moisturizers that contained all natural ingredients and no petroleum/petrolatum and it stopped happening.

Oh, and another time; it was a client that gel refused to stick to. L&P sticks fine. Gel just won't no matter what.

I have noted that on the rarest of occasions, the odd client requires a teensy-weensy bit of etching on their nail plate.

 

[VHunter]

did a little bit of a search

see this link here:
http://www.salongeek.com/nail-geek/17753-who-has-all-these-oily-nails.html

Where Geeg says

This is really a response to all those of you who suffer with clients who have lifting problems. Or have clients who complain ... they all just pinged, flew, dropped off or that they lost them somewhere!!

Peeps come on the site and ask why this has happenned and one of the answers they are given is ... Maybe your client had oily nail plates. Well maybe they didn't !!!

99% of all lifting problems are due to incomplete preparation. Check out the Perfect Preparation Prevents Problems tutorial in 'nailclass' or in the Premium Geeks Tutorial section of this site. Read it carefully and then do it!

I worked behind a nail station for years in my salons, saw thousands of clients, and I can only think of ONE client who had these mythical OILY NAILPLATES in all those years ... and they were accompanied by terribly sweaty hands too.

I have never used Primer (acid or non acid) never done more than a really thorough prep procedure and never suffered with lifting problems. I have never filed the nailplate .. only cleaned it and dried it.

Take the time to perform this procedure thoroughly and you will experience the same as I. I'm not unique .. just careful and thorough.

I'm still looking for some 'science' though, with regards to 'oily plates'.

hth's

 

[VHunter]

I did find this, however.

Skin (Integumentary) System Information

Sebaceous glands (oil glands) are all over the body except on the palms of hands and soles of feet. The glands empty via ducts into the bases of hair follicles and secrete sebum (a mixture of fats, waxes, and hydrocarbons). Sebum keeps hair moist and prevents skin from drying. Sebaceous glands are numerous on the face and scalp. During puberty, increased sex hormone levels in the blood may produce excessive sebum. This over secretion plugs the gland and hair follicle, producing a skin disorder called acne.

So, as I thought I remembered: sebaceous glands are found on shafts of hair.
There is no hair growing from nail plates, so no sebaceous glands, so no oil.

Still looking for more info to debunk this 'myth'.

 

[lasach66]

Hi Rachirv. I was told no such thing as an oily bed but I have severe problems with my eldest daughter who's 21. She has very sweaty hands and I have tried absolutely everything I can think of on her nails in last 2 yrs. Dehydrated x 2, done l+p, gel, popits, Gelish. Normal l+p lift quickest on her, gel lasts tad longer, Gelish tends to peel off within 10 days. The thing that lasts the longest on her is popits, don't know if it is because you hold the popit on so it pushes the acrylic on more firmly? It really is bizarre as she has eczema elsewhere on her body but what seem to be very oily nailbeds apart from when she has had eczema on 2 of her nails and then you cannot get the buggers off! She is leaving her nails natural at the moment as so fed up of having them done and then them lift and fall off, literally, usually leave no trace of having been on!. Popits may be worth a try? x

 

[Envy]

Hi All,

Firstly, for our own sanity, lets start using the correct terminology:
Nail bed - comprised of bed epithilium and dermis skin - if ever you are working you magic on the nail bed your client should be in hospital...!
Nail Plate - the compressed plate of keratin cells we apply our products to

*I realise some of you are students, but bad habits now become bad habits later...

Now - Victoria is correct - the nail plate is a very low source of oil. However, in some individuals (especially teenagers) the skin around the nail plate can be very oily. This can easily be transferred to the surface of the nail plate.

You must be very, very careful during prep to ensure that once you have PROPERLY removed the shine that they do not touch or rub their nails at all... And a good practise is to use a prep booster that keeps them dehydrated longer, as there could be the possibility of a lot of Moisture in these same clients... eg. Nail fresh prior to scrub fresh application -

If in doubt, only prep one hand at a time as you go... Remember that a thin, moist nail will very VERY flexible, and this can cause issues if there is not enough structure to hold the enhancement strongly in shape!

hope that helps

 

[katiebbaby]

Hi All,

Firstly, for our own sanity, lets start using the correct terminology:
Nail bed - comprised of bed epithilium and dermis skin - if ever you are working you magic on the nail bed your client should be in hospital...!
Nail Plate - the compressed plate of keratin cells we apply our products to

*I realise some of you are students, but bad habits now become bad habits later...

Now - Victoria is correct - the nail plate is a very low source of oil. However, in some individuals (especially teenagers) the skin around the nail plate can be very oily. This can easily be transferred to the surface of the nail plate.

You must be very, very careful during prep to ensure that once you have PROPERLY removed the shine that they do not touch or rub their nails at all... And a good practise is to use a prep booster that keeps them dehydrated longer, as there could be the possibility of a lot of Moisture in these same clients... eg. Nail fresh prior to scrub fresh application -

If in doubt, only prep one hand at a time as you go... Remember that a thin, moist nail will very VERY flexible, and this can cause issues if there is not enough structure to hold the enhancement strongly in shape!

hope that helps

Hi there I was just wandering with me saying also to double prep (prep booster) I have always when needed to used this prior to scrub fresh as the scrub fresh will ensure it has pathogen fighting agents left on the plate and lastly primer and make sure nail is dry,, this is wht I meant in my prev post. As to why I suggested doing 2 nails at a time as opposed to one hand or 3 nails as usual procedure, sorry bit confused lol

I have on certain clients used my better judgment I do understand the importance of using an abrasive on the natural nail plate and would never do so at all as I dont even use nail prime even, very very rare only if faced with a client as described above I might be inclined to do so. I do not remember OP saying her nails were THIN, if that were the case I would not suggest to do this.

Also I think aswell if maybe you try one hand double prep and one hand not see if you notice any diffrence. Also ensure as I said prev you are paying particular attention to cuticle area by pressing corrtctly,, not to thick or thin and press down to ensure adhesion.

xxxx:hug:

 

[VHunter]

I found more info re: sebaceous glands and hands
I'm determined to find something somewhere that says "yes" or "no", there is/isn't oil in nailplates :lol: I want irrefutable proof one way or the other lol Nothing makes me crazier than not knowing 100%

Sebaceous gland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The sebaceous glands are microscopic

glands in the skin which secrete an oily/waxy matter, called sebum, to lubricate the skin and hair of mammals.[1] In humans, they are found in greatest abundance on the face and scalp, though they are distributed throughout all skin sites except the palms and soles.[2] In the eyelids, meibomian sebaceous glands secrete a special type of sebum into tears. There are several related medical conditions, including: acne, sebaceous cysts, hyperplasia, sebaceous adenoma and sebaceous gland carcinoma (see section below: Pathologyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebaceous_gland).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebaceous_gland



Anatomy and human movement ... - Google Books
(sorry for type-o's if any, had to retype the passage as it wouldn't let me copy and paste from link above)

GLANDS
Sebaceous Glands: These are associated with all hairs and hair follicles, there being between one and four associated with each hair. They may also exist where there is no hair, such as the corner of the mouth and the adjacent mucosa, the lips, the areola and the nipple, opening directly onto the skin surface. However, they are absent from the skin of the palm and sole and the dorsum of the distal segments of the digits.

Dorsum definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms

Dorsum: The back or posterior side of a structure. "Dorsum" is the Latin word for the back. Something pertaining to the dorsum is dorsal.
The dorsal surface of the hand is the back of the hand, the side opposite the palm.

So, what I conclude from all that googling (there are many more links and photos, but I kept it short and sweet) is that there are no sebaceous glands in the fingers/nail plates/nail beds etc and so no oil UNLESS the fingers have picked it up from another surface (ie: touching one's hair or face or other) or from having applied an oil-based product.

Doug? Geeg? Am I right? or did I go the wrong direction?

 

[katiebbaby]

Im pretty sure oil can penetrate through the nail bed up to nail plate as why else would we use a dehydrator for lift prone clients? the nail plate may seem solid but as with most things in nature it conforms to the law of diffusion.

There are 2 ways in which moisture can pass through the nail plate by the process of diffusion, natural oils diffuse from the nail bed onto the nail plate and are usually washed off or worn off there is less oil vs water and also oils will be absorbed onto the nail plate from sorounding skin, or daily object or plasticizer such as solar oil.

xxxx

 

[VHunter]

I was taught that dehydrator was for all clients, to remove surface oils (which don't necessarily stem from the nail bed, but from alternate sources) & kill bacteria.

Yes, nail plates are porous and will absorb oils.

I'm simply trying to ascertain scientific proof with regards as to whether or not oil arrives there naturally.
According to my research above, it doesn't stem from the nail bed/fingers etc and so is picked up from other sources (touching oily skin/hair on other parts of the body, lotion/oils/creams that are applied...)

So, that would debunk the myth with regards to 'oily nails' which perhaps means that
A) the lift etc is due to technician's error
B) lifestyle of the client, health issues, or other external factors (products she uses in day to day life) causes the lift etc

I left a message on Doug's wall regards this thread and asked him to reply when he has a moment.

Perhaps I'm missing something here, or the info I found is incomplete or whatnot.
But I've seen this question come up often enough to want irrefutable scientific answers one way or the other.
THAT way for future reference, we will know for FACT and can direct members to the 'answer' and not give them a 'theory' or 'opinion'.:green:

 

[Doug Schoon]

Hi Envy,
Good advice and info. As you point out, there is some oil in the nails and it has a similar composition to skin oil, but of course the hair has much more for the reasons Victoria described.

Even so, the so-called "oily nail" issue is over exaggerated and often used as an excuse for lifting when the problem is really poor prep. Sweaty hands are a different issue. That's too much water in the hands and nails. That can certainly lead to lifting. Not everyone is a good candidate for artificial nails.

Hi All,

Firstly, for our own sanity, lets start using the correct terminology:
Nail bed - comprised of bed epithilium and dermis skin - if ever you are working you magic on the nail bed your client should be in hospital...!
Nail Plate - the compressed plate of keratin cells we apply our products to

*I realise some of you are students, but bad habits now become bad habits later...

Now - Victoria is correct - the nail plate is a very low source of oil. However, in some individuals (especially teenagers) the skin around the nail plate can be very oily. This can easily be transferred to the surface of the nail plate.

You must be very, very careful during prep to ensure that once you have PROPERLY removed the shine that they do not touch or rub their nails at all... And a good practise is to use a prep booster that keeps them dehydrated longer, as there could be the possibility of a lot of Moisture in these same clients... eg. Nail fresh prior to scrub fresh application -

If in doubt, only prep one hand at a time as you go... Remember that a thin, moist nail will very VERY flexible, and this can cause issues if there is not enough structure to hold the enhancement strongly in shape!

hope that helps

 

[VHunter]

Okey dokey.
So then my question then becomes

Is there oil produced in the fingers by sebaceous glands (because they are also found at the bottom of pores, which the hand does have) or was my research incorrect?

 

[Doug Schoon]

Of course sebaceous glands produce lots of oil, but oil can migrate from many places and the body can produce small amounts without these glands. I would tend to agree that much of it is probably transfered to the nail plate from areas.

Okey dokey.
So then my question then becomes

Is there oil produced in the fingers by sebaceous glands (because they are also found at the bottom of pores, which the hand does have) or was my research incorrect?

 

[VHunter]

thanks!:hug:

 

[Envy]

Thanks for the clarification Doug

 

[katiebbaby]

Sorry so can anyone clarify this in my terms haha (kates world) ,,,is what I was saying correct?? if not then I seriously need to get my text books out:lol::lol:

Seriously though I have noticed that whenever I have clients with hot sweaty hands they all seem to have the same type nail beds, quite narrow very deep side walls with good C curve (alot are V shaped in their form) and quite small, and I am almost certain that when I do clients nails whom are like described above it is down to my inexperience as opposed to oily skin or nail plates etc if they lift.

I always find the initial full set with clients like this a nightmare if you can get over the first two rebalances then its great from then onwards but in them first two three weeks I try to get client back after 7-10 days to prevent any probs before they occour, strangely enough I love doing rebalances on these types of nails but hate hate hate doing full sets

 

[Erika Cartmell]

I was under the impression that there was no such thing as 'oily nails' since nail beds don't have sebaceous glands?

Can Doug or Gigi confirm this one way or the other for us?

The only times I've seen that sort of thing hapen, we were able to determine the source of the problem and it was A) their health (due to medications they were taking) or B) heavy use of a hand cream overloaded with petrolatum/petroleum.

For the medication (it was a certain anti-depressant + thyroid medications) there was naught I could do and I was the last of a long list of techs she tried. Nothing stayed stuck.

For the other... the client's switched to natural moisturizers that contained all natural ingredients and no petroleum/petrolatum and it stopped happening.

Oh, and another time; it was a client that gel refused to stick to. L&P sticks fine. Gel just won't no matter what.

I have noted that on the rarest of occasions, the odd client requires a teensy-weensy bit of etching on their nail plate.

Hi Victoria,

I was wondering whether you came up with a solution or whether there might be new products available to help for the clients that are on medication as I have experienced the same problem?

Thanks,
Erika

 

[Noodle]

Hi Victoria,

I was wondering whether you came up with a solution or whether there might be new products available to help for the clients that are on medication as I have experienced the same problem?

Thanks,
Erika

Welcome to the site @Erika Cartmell

@VHunter has been absent from Salon Geek since early last year, so may or may not answer unfortunately.