If it's not one thing it's another - new shop

[Essexgary]

So after a few hiccups and back n fourth with the agent we agreed a monthly fee on a new shop and then found out that we might need to change from A1 to Sui Generasis..... Wish I never opened my mouth.

Just got off the phone with the planning officer for our town and still none the wiser. She was up front and said she didn’t know and would find out and come back to us as she knew that in some places a Beauty Salon did not fit into either A1, A2 or A3 usage. Said no Aesthetics were being performed. but we still need to wait to hear back hopefully later today or tomorrow (am hoping today).

If we did need to change we could go for Pre-Planning Advice to see if it would be looked on favourably or not, but would still need to go to Planning for usage change and to see if the location would suit a Beauty Salon.

Talk about hoops jumping. Its next door to a restaurant and charity shop and a dog groomer is down the road a hundred yards and opposite is the job centre and a Wetherspoons and a town hall.

So the question is...... If I need to change to this Sui Generasis how long does that take and how does it cost......

Thank you all in advance

 

[Essexgary]

So the long shot is I have to apply for full planning permission at a cost of £462 with no guarantee of it being approved. I can submit a pre-Application Advice to see if this will be looked on favourably or not and that would cost £150. I think this will be what we do before applying in full. Would rather loose £150 than £462. The only problem is it take 28 days from receipt for the pre-Application Advice to be returned. Then would need to do the full planning with a 6 to 8 week wait for approval.....

The other biggie is do we wait to instruct our solicitor until a full planning approval has been put in place so we not throwing good money after bad or do we run them at same time with a proviso that if planning fails we won’t be having the shop.

And this is if the landlord is happy to wait that bit longer for us to take over the lease. Fingers crossed he is

 

[Essexgary]

Has anyone here changed their usage from A1 to Sui Generis with their planning authority?

 

[skbeauty]

Hi There Hun,

I am also in the middle of the whole application process. We are looking to let a shop and applied for a pre-application and the response we got is 'we do not see why this is a problem, it should most likely get aprroved'.

Really wasted 6 weeks and £150, just get the planning done.

 

[Betty]

I am also to take a shop for a beauty salon although I have decided not to sign for anything until at least April next year, with a view to opening in June. Sui Generis is always required for beauty - anyone trading under any other classification is doing so illegally and would have to make a retrospective application if reported to planning.
I would go straight for full planning and not waste time or money on a pre- application - unless you are hoping to string out the process until there is more economic and market certainty. Best of luck. x

 

[TheDuchess]

Different Councils take a their own view. In Bath I have traded under D1 consulting rooms and I currently trade under A1 retail with ancillary use.

It depends on the attitude of the Council, the locations and character of your set up itself and how you operate.

for example when I was D1, I was in a multi occupancy building with a mixture of offices and flats. The offices were both consulting rooms and business offices. I wasn’t allowed to do retail displays in my windows, but I could sign write my windows with my services and have a pavement poster. I worked on an appointment system, you could walk in to make an appointment of course but obviously I made a record of everyone’s details. This was in the days before nail and brow bars had really arrived in Bath.

now I’m in a shop and I’m a council tenant. We have a shop section which you walk through to secondary areas where we provide services. Our treatment areas are in the basement. Until Covid I was one of 5 Spa/salons operating in this way including Neal’s Yard and Lush. In terms of turnover most is services.

Ive had planning officers and commercial surveyors agree that I’m trading within A1. Of course I read all the regs carefully so I describe my business activities as selling products which customers can try if they wish in a facial, make over or nail service. I mention waxing explaining that we have to keep waxing pots switched on and ready for use, because a customer might request an additional service. And I show them my store room which is clearly not being used for retail (it’s not supposed to be). It is being used as a storage and prep/staff room and is set up with a treatment area with a couch and waxing trolley ready for use because we do our apprentice training there. Of course we also do the occasional treatment there as well but I know my numbers and I’m careful to mostly use areas for activities covered by my planning designation. Secondary usage - as long as it’s not a material change - is ok.

 

[tog]

Different Councils take a their own view. In Bath I have traded under D1 consulting rooms and I currently trade under A1 retail with ancillary use.

It depends on the attitude of the Council, the locations and character of your set up itself and how you operate.

for example when I was D1, I was in a multi occupancy building with a mixture of offices and flats. The offices were both consulting rooms and business offices. I wasn’t allowed to do retail displays in my windows, but I could sign write my windows with my services and have a pavement poster. I worked on an appointment system, you could walk in to make an appointment of course but obviously I made a record of everyone’s details. This was in the days before nail and brow bars had really arrived in Bath.

now I’m in a shop and I’m a council tenant. We have a shop section which you walk through to secondary areas where we provide services. Our treatment areas are in the basement. Until Covid I was one of 5 Spa/salons operating in this way including Neal’s Yard and Lush. In terms of turnover most is services.

Ive had planning officers and commercial surveyors agree that I’m trading within A1. Of course I read all the regs carefully so I describe my business activities as selling products which customers can try if they wish in a facial, make over or nail service. I mention waxing explaining that we have to keep waxing pots switched on and ready for use, because a customer might request an additional service. And I show them my store room which is clearly not being used for retail (it’s not supposed to be). It is being used as a storage and prep/staff room and is set up with a treatment area with a couch and waxing trolley ready for use because we do our apprentice training there. Of course we also do the occasional treatment there as well but I know my numbers and I’m careful to mostly use areas for activities covered by my planning designation. Secondary usage - as long as it’s not a material change - is ok.

May I please ask what paperwork you have from your council regarding usage category? The reason I'm asking is that I currently own the freehold on my salon which I have owned since 1995, and I can't remember ever having any paperwork with the category of usage definitively in writing. It occured to me recently that if I were to sell it, what would a prospective buyer request? And if I did want something in writing from the council, right now as I'm still there (although closed due to tier 4), it could be like poking a hornet's nest. Although I am reliably informed by an architect friend who knows planning law, that as I own the premises and have been trading as the same business for over ten years, I don't have to have their permission - unless I wanted to completely change the nature of the business.

 

[TheDuchess]

Hi Tog, I’m sorry, unless you are in Bath I don’t think it will help. Councils make their own decisions.

My understanding is that your architect friend is correct and he/she will know more about it. My advice is not to worry. Planning rules change next year anyway with a new class E which brings lots of commercial classes of use together.

The whole point of plann8ng is to avoid nuisance and detriment to neighbours. If your business hasn’t caused any problems with noise, smells, disturbance (rowdy customers) or parking after (I think) 3 years then I believe the assumption is that it’s fine. I’m not sure if you can apply for a change of use and have it automatically granted, but I believe you are safe from any interference from the Council after this period of time unless your business activities change materially.

I think there are different rule for some activities like gambling, pawnbroking and sex establishments where there are additional concerns such as exploitation of customers or workers, I don’t think these businesses get a free pass just because the Council didn’t know or no-one’s complained.