Is it true l&p never stops releasing chemicals

[Snugglepuss]

If I understand correctly - going deep into the cobwebs of my brain here :lol:

The nail plate is indeed made up of layers and it is in the formation of "chain mail" Some enamels contain cross links - such as Toughen up and when it seeps into the chain mail effect it creates bonds - cross links with nail plate - so red varnish could possibly have cross links in ????

The smokers thing I can't answer as I don't smoke and the majority of my clients don't either, but I would have thought that was also a reaction - as it is with uv light - the sun will turn the pages of a book yellow/brown in no time!

I could be wrong but hopefully someone will clarify :hug:

 

[1999judy]

.
Thin nail plates: Isn't this the reason why many peeps do wear nail enhancements? And What about those peepy clients who are destroying their nail plates by constantly breaking them or worse yet..picking them off!
Again, they would get problems with symptoms of overexposure if they continue to do this and find it impossible to wear enhancements.

Okay so common sense says that the nail is not able to absorb..what about wearing say a red nail polish and after wearing it all the time, you take it off and the nail plates are discolored yellow. Or a heavy cigarette smoker whose nails are yellowish..
It may slightly stain the nail plate but I don't really think it's going to stain the nailbed?
They should use a basecoat!:lol:
These are staining of the nail plate. In order for the nail plate to stain..it has to absorb. Stains do not just lie on the top surface, they actually do penetrate the surface. How many layers I do not know , but in order to get the stain off, you have to file it off thus leaving the nail plate thinner which in turn leaves the nail plate exposed more for absorption of chemicals.
Usually any staining of this nature only needs a light buffing in order to remove it.

And ahh yes the good old primer that etched the nail. When I started doing nails many moons ago..this is the stuff we used. It stunk to high heavens and pretty much ruined the nail plate. This is why I stopped doing acrylics.
I still see that pretty much of the market in acrylic nails call for some type of primer being used. What is the difference between the primer being used now a days and the one back when?
Isnt the primer the main factor in keeping the acrylic on the nail plate?
I think there may have been some pretty big changes in nail products over the last few years. Overuse of primer can cause problems but should be ok if used correctly.


So if the nail plate is Very non porous..how come when I get my hands immersed in water that my nails are soft afterwards until the water is evaporated from my nails? And I am not talking about just the freeedge of my nails, I have looked at them closely, the whole nailplate is soft.
Mind you, I have very strong nails also. (thanks to solar oil and Nail envy)

Water will evaporate over time, acrylic products polymerise in a short space of time so that they cannot penetrate more than the top layer of the nail plate.

hth

 

[Snugglepuss]

Okey doke just reading good ol Doug :green:

As I said earlier, the nail plate is made up of lots of chains which are cross linked - think chain mail :lol:

The areas between these cells is very very very small. The nail bed contains moisture and oils and as these are even smaller than the keratin cells (chain mail) they can travel up to the nail plate and evaporate.

So, obviously if water cells are smaller than the keratin cells it can also travel from the top of the nail plate and find it's way to the nail bed.

Doug states that it isn't about how porous the nail is, but the permeability - which is a totally different thing. Nails are not porous (if I have understood it correctly) but some cells such as water can permeate through the keratin.

Moisture, diffuses from the most concentrated source - the example Doug uses is a swimming pool - if you tip a cup of dark blue dye into the pool, it will start as a dark blue spot but will eventually diffuse outwards until the whole pool is the same colour!

If pigments are used in nail polish, then these are to large to pass through the keratin cells and therefore not stain the nail - however, if dye is used - then this can pass through them causing some staining. Because the nail polish has other things in it - then is can not permeate deep down! It is usually cheaper brands which contain lots of dye - hence the staining.

Lots of other things can cause staining as well - like already stated nicotine, henna, mercury, metal cleaner, carbon monoxide poisoning, weed killer, excess vitamin d!

HTHs

 

[ValencianNails]

think about it! What are the ingredients in L&P? You apply this to a very absorbable part of the body and it will soak into the bloodstream. You apply this odor chemical medium and you inhale it. The chemicals are still there, why shouldn't the odors be.

Now though, like grafxgal said, it hasn't been banned by the FDA yet so it must be ok. eh?
When we file , it is the particals that we are most concerned about inhaling not really the fumes , Although in my presence, those fumes are enough to give me a blazing headache. (that is why I do gel nails)

This is very valuable information that shouldn't be just poopoo'd ladies. It is something to think about seriously because god only knows that down the road a few years from now, someone is going to find that it causes cancer just like drinking coffee or milk does,

Sandi, I said nothing about it being dangerous or harmful. I was simply stating that just because you can't smell it doesn't mean it isn't there.

I think that by stating that your opinion is that the product will soak into the bloodstream and that someone will find that it causes cancer that it implies that your think it is harmful.

Both of those links I gave have important information regarding the bloodstream issue.

I think the thing to remember here is that if we don't keep our product knowledge truly up to date we end up believing things that aren't necessarily true :hug:

 

[JDs]

I think that by stating that your opinion is that the product will soak into the bloodstream and that someone will find that it causes cancer that it implies that your think it is harmful.

Both of those links I gave have important information regarding the bloodstream issue.

I think the thing to remember here is that if we don't keep our product knowledge truly up to date we end up believing things that aren't necessarily true :hug:

Sorry hun but you took that completely out of context. All I am stating is that the nail plate is absorbable! when something is absorbable and you apply pretty much anything to it, it is going to absorb, now if the nail plate is a very thin nail plate then it is going to be even more absorbable thus enter the chemicals stage left....And yes, someone somewhere will come out with a report saying "Artifical Nails cause cancer" Just like they tried doing it with haircolor a few years back and scared the **** out of everyone.
As of today ...artifical nails do not cause cancer. Tommorrow they might.
Today eating sprouts :Scared:do not cause cancer..they are really good for you..tommorrow..they might not be as healthy.

But honest to god! Never Say Never.

 

[The Geek]

hehe, I know where you are coming from, but thankfully there are very few substances known to man that cause cancer and none of them are found in nail enhancement products!

Take the cardboard backing off of a pad of paper and place a medium wet mix on it. Rest assured that it won't soak through. Cardboard is FAR more porous than the natural nail most people that wear enhancements are not because they have overly thin plates, it is because they want more beautiful looking nails. Nail enhancements only bond to the upper most layers. That is why if you 'peel' or force a nail enhancement off, you will only lose a couple of layers (in the case of an 'etched nail' you may lose more, but you wont lose the entire thing!). If the product was 'seeping' through that deep, you wouldn't lose layers, you would lose your entire natural nail.

You mentioned primer as well... Acidic primers work through the nail plate even better than your monomers... however you would KNOW if that stuff touched the nail bed as it would burn like hell on a hot summer day! If that wasn't happening, rest assured your monomer wasn't getting down there either.

I suppose that the point is: In theory you could get some nail enhancement products to work through the natural nail, however the likelihood is that it would be VERY difficult. The good news is that the immune system would eventually let you know (irritation can be a good thing I suppose!).

HTHs!

 

[JDs]

most people that wear enhancements are not because they have overly thin plates, it is because they want more beautiful looking nails. Nail enhancements only bond to the upper most layers. That is why if you 'peel' or force a nail enhancement off, you will only lose a couple of layers (in the case of an 'etched nail' you may lose more, but you wont lose the entire thing!). If the product was 'seeping' through that deep, you wouldn't lose layers, you would lose your entire natural nail.

HTHs!

I have found that most people who wear artificial nails are the ones who cannot grow their own nails out because their nails are weak and break , tear and peel too easily and yes they want beautiful nails.

I once had a walk in nail client, she had acrylic nails...This was at the time that I did acrylics or as you guys say now..P&L..
This lady wanted me to replace a broken nail. Her nails were long and more on the thick side than I like to see. I refused to do her nail and laid down my brush that day because of what I saw that acrylic do to her nail. It took everything completely off down to the bloody part of the nail bed.

Now, primer to me is primer, it etches the nail. The primer I used back when didn't cause a burning sensation but it did make the nail more "porous" so the acrylic would adhere better.
The primers today aren't a etching forumula?
Please forgive my ignorance on acrylic nails today. I am really old skool.

 

[The Geek]

hehe, I'm old school too - back then, it was thought that was how acidic primers worked... by 'etching' the nail. The truth is very much different. No nail product (even the old primers) couldn't damage the natural nail plate. You can verify this by placing a clipping of a natural nail in a bottle of primer... it will not ever 'erode' the nail.

What causes the damage is crappy application, crappy maintenance or crappy removal. Some product systems lend themselves to one or more of the above, but in the end, no product will damage the nail.

I remember getting an appointment once for highlights in the salon. When she came in, her hair was seriously fubar'ed from a seriously over processed perm (remember... I came from Utah!). Last thing I was going to do was put anything in her hair to lighten what basically equated to shredded wheat. Saying that, it didn't ever put me off of performing the service on others

Remember that we use some pretty cool stuff in the salon. In the hands of dim wits, that cool stuff can be potentially dangerous. That doesn't mean that the products are dangerous - just that the people using them are!

 

[Snugglepuss]

Jayne - hugs to you - but I'm sorry I've got to disagree with you - let me try and explain :hug:

I have found that most people who wear artificial nails are the ones who cannot grow their own nails out because their nails are weak and break , tear and peel too easily and yes they want beautiful nails.

You are right in that some do - but others just like them - one client I know has them because they are all consistent - she has had enhancements for years - good nail techs do not damage nails!

I once had a walk in nail client, she had acrylic nails...This was at the time that I did acrylics or as you guys say now..P&L..
This lady wanted me to replace a broken nail. Her nails were long and more on the thick side than I like to see. I refused to do her nail and laid down my brush that day because of what I saw that acrylic do to her nail. It took everything completely off down to the bloody part of the nail bed.

Can I ask when that was? - developments are being made all the time - lawsuits - health and safety are their to protect us and that should give us some comfort

You mentioned in an earlier post that the same scaremongering had happened in the hair industry - well I believe that - why ? because hair has the same type of structure as nails - however, hair doesn't have as many cross links as nails and then there is something to do with sulpher - which escapes me at the moment (will clarify later) You haven't laid down your scissors - what is the difference? I'm not a hair geek - so you will have to say whether I have totally missed the point!

Now, primer to me is primer, it etches the nail. The primer I used back when didn't cause a burning sensation but it did make the nail more "porous" so the acrylic would adhere better.
The primers today aren't a etching forumula?

Can't say for sure for all brands, but primers these days aren't always needed, etching isn't needed for every brand either in this day and age!

Please forgive my ignorance on acrylic nails today. I am really old skool.

I'm from the old skool in many ways and therefore I can understand where you are coming from BUT we have to embrace new ideas and thoughts - and not all old skool was correct!

Alchohol in this day and age is frowned upon for children but way back in medieval times they had what was called "small beer"

Beer was brewed and diluted dependant on age - this helped the children against disease because the hops had antiseptic properties and the brewing/heating of beer killed lots of bacteria. So IMHO it doesn't matter what we do - we will all die in the end

Finally Mr Geek is right - cancer is caused for many reasons - usally for more than one factor. There are over 200 types of cancers and for example uv light doesn't cause lung cancer on it's own if at all - it will be something like smoking and uv light - smoking doesn't cause skin cancer - but it may contribute once lung cancer is established!

However, the main factor in cancer is genetics - which is a blow for me because I have already had cervical cancerous cells - my father died of cancer as did my grandmother and father - need I say more???

Hope you understand where I am coming from :hug:

 

[littlegrohl]

This thread has bought back memories for me about a confrontation i had with a lady at my dog training school..
Bear with me i have a point!

I do protective training with my dogs.. and while i was there a lady was standing with her Akita (dog) and looked at me with my Dobe and said..
"Didn't you know that Dobermans brains never stop growing and it ends up squashing up in their heads which is why they turn vicious and thats why they are on the dangerous breed list!!"



After watching her dog tear into the trainers bite suit, i was shocked that someone who obviously loved her dog and understood that dogs of all breeds have a tendancy to be agressive.. i approached her ..
I asked her what fact she based her opinion on?? "Oh its a fact, my vet told me.."
after explaining that it wasnt true.. and that the very rare instance that it can happen is not reserved for a single breed, she argued that i had better be careful.
No amount of common sense was going to prove to her that genetics come into play..
I spose my point is that she had her beliefs and i had mine.. and no matter what i said, she would always believe that all Dobermans have brains to big for their skull.. so we agreed to disagree..
We agreed that anyone owning a dog like ours should have training and teach the dog how and when to use its natural agression.. dogs like ours in the hands of a novice are what leads to the dogs getting bad reps, and do our cause no good.. My dog is the most loving dog you will find, because i have given him an outlet for his agression and he knows when and where it is ok to use it.... for me to explain a working dog would take to long..

I think its the same with this thread, L+P has come along way.. and while the products are being tested and used by proffesionals they cause no harm.. but in the hands of a novice, the same cannot be said.. which is why so much confusion surrounding certain aspects and in some respects L&P get a bad name.. Gels and all sorts of acrylics can be just as bad used in the wrong hands but because they dont have the offensive odour they are considered better..
I know my fingers have chemiclas emitting from them.. because most of the time i have a fag hangin from em.. not because i have enhancements!:green:

 

[claireamy]

Although I can't add anything chemically to this thread I'd just like to say thanks to Sam for a brilliant read, so informative and eloquently put. I did have to read through a couple of parts twice but have managed to get my head around a lot of stuff there. Thanks!!