Lame advertising

[nonacrylicgel]

I think the little devil with the impish grin really suits, I do enjoy some verbal sparring.

I don't like your chemistry but I have always stated that I believe your training was the best in the L & P game.

So please don't take this any other way than it's meant. I can see the humour in the "lame" bit......

 

[Mrs Geek]

just noticed that Brisa is advertised in Nails magazine as being "available in March". So do we have to wait until olympia or will next week do?

Sorry Ella - you have to wait until Olympia!!

 

[geeg]

This is great news..in 25 years (in my experience) no company has got it right yet(Gel that is)..... It is almost worth jumping on an Easyjet to see if it is at the show?
Love Tricia

I SO agree with you. I have tried so many gels and they all had the same things I didn't like in common. Sticky & stringy ... heat/pain ... aging quickly and going brittle ... fine dust and wearing gloves to work with it ... blunt (as opposed to sharp) smile lines .... the white not really very white ... don't soak off ... etc etc etc etc!!

Hey Tricia I have been a tester for more than 2 years for Brisa and trust me you are going to LOVE this one!! :green: :lol:

 

[ella]

I think you can just reserve me some now! I'll collect it on the Sunday! :lol: :lol: Geeg - maybe you could put some back for the geeks as it would be very disappointing to find it flew off the shelves so fast that we missed it.

Will you be doing demonstrations with it at the show? :lol:

 

[The Geek]

Gigi, Ketan, Tracey Leja, Amanda Reevel and lil ol me will be on the demo team at Olympia

 

[Nailsinlondon1]

Sorry Ella - you have to wait until Olympia!!

Roll on Olympia, Can't wait to get my hands on Brisa..............


As for this pmsl:

By the way can anyone tell me why acetone is so harmful?

Read Doug Schoons Product Chemistry book, loads of info there....tip of the week!!!!.......

Don't get your sausage-links in a knot - after all the professional technicians will decide what is best for them - we're not worried - are you

this sounds painfull, knotted sausage links.................pmsl
Being German I know all about sausage links, and having them knotted is not a pleasant sight................pmsl

Originally Posted by crazy'n'creative

As for superstar well come on it has to be THE GRAND MASTER HIMSELF

There can be only one!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
pmsl

You betcha babe xxxxxxx

 

[nonacrylicgel]

"Read Doug Schoons Product Chemistry book, loads of info there....tip of the week!!!!......."

I did, I didn't realise that you could put a spin on chemistry. Also the toxicity, lethality, LD 50 doses, In one study, 110 men were exposed to a mean concentration of 361 ppm acetone for an average of 14.9 years. These men reported more heavy headedness, nausea, faintness, weight loss, eye irritation than a comparison group with no acetone exposure. They also did not perform as well on some neurobehavioural tests (reaction time and digit span tests). A few historical reports have also described long-term exposure effects such as irritation of the airways, throat, stomach and occasionally, dizziness, attacks of giddiness and a loss of strength.

I also have some American info:

SECTION 313 - This product is a toxic chemical subject to the reporting
requirements of section 313 of Title III of the Superfund Amendments
and Reauthorization Act of 1986 and 40 CFR Part 372.

PROPOSITION 65 (WITH CHEMICALS LISTED) - This product contains the
following chemical(s) considered by the state of California's safe
drinking water and Toxic Enforcement Act of 1986 (Proposition 65)
as causing cancer or reproductive toxicity and for which warnings
are required:

CHEMICALS CAS NO. % WT
Benzene 71-43-2 30 PPM


So anyway what is Doug going to tell me..... I have no problem with these products being used.....I have a problem with how they are described or proscribed.

 

[naturalnails]

I do not see what benefit Allessandro are gaining from these posts. I for one as a professional nail technician would certainly not be swayed from one product to another on the bad mouth tactics being shown here. I used to have some respect for Allessandro as a natural nail care product but that is very quickly dwindling.

I hope you think you are doing your Company proud!

 

[geeg]

As far as I am aware, nail technicians are not drinking the stuff (acetone)!!

Nor are they exposed to anything like the ppm levels you describe.

Being aware of COSHH rules and in the amounts that a nail technician uses acetone, it is not a hazard to their or their client's health.

Water is pretty dangerous stuff if you abuse it and don't know how to handle it. Plenty of drownings every year.

It is up to we as educators to see that technicians use products safely and do not overexpose themselves to any substance including gels, liquid monomer, even nail polish vapours.

Millions (literally) of hairdressers are overexposed to the SLS in shampoos and suffer from contact dematitus for evermore. I don't see many companies removing this substance from their shampoos?? If they wore gloves this wouldn't happen. Knowing how to handle substances safely takes the risk out of using them. Knowledge is power.

While they were busy taking the powder off the shelves in Germany because they contained BPO (which was then on the banned list) Every gel on the market contained HQ which was also on the banned list!!

Lets stop preying on people's ignorance of a subject and bandying figures around and get things into proper perspective.

I would trust Doug Schoone and his expertise over anything you could tell me because he is the expert and he doesn't have a motive.

They certainly trusted him in Europe when he presented the case for BPO and got it removed from the list for nail products. A HUGE accomplishment and one designed to help everyone in the nail industry, NOT just Creative Nail Design.

 

[nonacrylicgel]

I generally agree with you but we are relying upon "educators" to self regulate.

Sodium Lauryl Sulphate is even in toothpaste..... and yes I am aware of the product and the potential for harm. However I know my circle of influnece and it doesn't reach government level and I can't effect SLS usage.

I can effect the nails industry and like you I care about how we as an "industry" (because that is what we are now - big business) are represented to the public.

So I want to raise awareness, not stop its usuage, but ensure its an educated choice!

As far as I am aware, nail technicians are not drinking the stuff!!

Nor are they exposed to anything like the ppm levels you describe.

Being aware of COSHH rules and in the amounts that a nail technician uses acetone, it is not a hazard to their or their client's health.

Water is pretty dangerous stuff if you abuse it and don't know how to handle it. Plenty of drownings every year.

It is up to we as educators to see that technicians use products safely and do not overexpose themselves to any substance including gels, liquid monomer, even nail polish vapours.

Millions (literally) of hairdressers are overexposed to the SLS in shampoos and suffer from contact dematitus for evermore. I don't see many companies removing this substance from their shampoos?? If they wore gloves this wouldn't happen. Knowing how to handle substances safely takes the risk out of using them. Knowledge is power.

While they were busy taking the powder off the shelves in Germany because they contained BPO (which was then on the banned list) Every gel on the market contained HQ which was also on the banned list!!

Lets stop preying on people's ignorance of a subject and bandying figures around and get things into proper perspective.
I would trust Doug Schoone and his expertise over anything you could tell me because he is the expert and he doesn't have a motive. They certainly trusted him in Europe when he presented the case for BPO and got it

 

[nonacrylicgel]

I do not see what benefit Allessandro are gaining from these posts. I for one as a professional nail technician would certainly not be swayed from one product to another on the bad mouth tactics being shown here. I used to have some respect for Allessandro as a natural nail care product but that is very quickly dwindling.

I hope you think you are doing your Company proud!

I don't remember anyone using a brand name....... why choose them?

 

[geeg]

So I want to raise awareness, not stop its usuage, but ensure its an educated choice!

Well, love, Creative have been working on that one for nigh on 25 years and I can tell you that it is working. Especially in Europe.

Technicians are much more aware now than ever before AND better educated than ever before. Crumbs, not more than 5 years ago most nail companies didn't even have an eduction programme!!

We have just been granted our own NAIL NVQ -- no longer linked to beauty --- seperate and all our own --- through the dogged determination of educators like Jacqui Jefford (yes a Creative Ambassador!!

There is always a way to go and life isn't perfect. But I have to say it is really not coming accross to me that you are interested altruistically in helping the industry as whole.... I see motive ... but if you are, then more power to your elbow. Every manufacturer should be on the same course.

 

[geeg]

I don't remember anyone using a brand name....... why choose them?

We've all had a look at your home page that's why :o

 

[naturalnails]

I don't remember anyone using a brand name....... why choose them?

Well you did! If you are not their representative then you have done them immense harm by putting their homepage in your profile as your homepage.

 

[The Geek]

In one study, 110 men were exposed to a mean concentration of 361 ppm acetone for an average of 14.9 years. These men reported more heavy headedness, nausea, faintness, weight loss, eye irritation than a comparison group with no acetone exposure. They also did not perform as well on some neurobehavioural tests (reaction time and digit span tests). A few historical reports have also described long-term exposure effects such as irritation of the airways, throat, stomach and occasionally, dizziness, attacks of giddiness and a loss of strength.

Looks like the only comparison of 15 years of constant exposure to acetone in the industry that I could think of is when someone is trying to soak off gel enhancements

What you are doing is spinning. The facts you are presenting are completely out of context for nail technicians. What I see is you discussing the negativities of 15 year constant exposure to acetone, but not bothering to mention real relevancies like gluteraldehyde and acrylate exposure which is far more relevant with gel nails don’t you think?

 

[Lellipop]

I don't remember anyone using a brand name....... why choose them?

Well i think Alassandro will be shocked that youve used there web site as your home page.[NOT a very smart move.]
If your intention are good, Then dont come onto these pages CAUSING trouble we dont operate like that.
Nail Geeks are real nice folk.

 

[nonacrylicgel]

elbow. Every manufacturer should be on the same course.[/QUOTE]
Well, don't worry I am not offended by the patronising, "love" I believe that your right and I was involved early on but pulled out when I realised how uncommerical the course was and how it was being written by the L & P people which as we all know is a dead line...roll on Brisa, the new generation of CND Gel putting a wierd spin on all those years of L&P being best.....

You know this quality education, does it involve some strict exams and does it gaurantee fantastic quality and in-depth knowledge, or is it merely course work and a few assessments rolled up as a badge of mere completion. Personnally I respect the education fo the Creative Master far, far more than this. Hehe I know some of the assessors "working" and passing people......

I am all for your new gel, now you can phase out the L & P and gradually let everyone know that we've all moved on from L & P.

Problem with most nail techs is that some may have even 25 years of experience but with how many products and for how long. The average nail tech in the UK starts on St** in college and then moves onto one other whereby they are brainwashed into believing stuff..... you see I read books and took education from people outside the nail industry...so my knowledge didn't get spun by commercial nail influences.

And coming from outside industry and being responsbile for creating the kickstart that moved nails on from being a cottage industry to the professional business it is becoming. Some people have been in the nails for 30 years. Funny that turnover in the busines suddenly mushroomed in 1997 onwards when a number of things were done to boost the industry and take it into the 21st Century.

 

[nonacrylicgel]

Looks like the only comparison of 15 years of constant exposure to acetone in the industry that I could think of is when someone is trying to soak off gel enhancements

What you are doing is spinning. The facts you are presenting are completely out of context for nail technicians. What I see is you discussing the negativities of 15 year constant exposure to acetone, but not bothering to mention real relevancies like gluteraldehyde and acrylate exposure which is far more relevant with gel nails don’t you think?

Do you mean....[size=+1]GLUTARALDEHYDE........ which CND products contain this then? in fact to be very honest I didn't know any nail products would dare use this higly toxic product. As for the latent acrylate exposure due to the minute dust particles created by vigourously filing L & P you can imagine my horror. Thank-god CND is bringing out Brisa. Now we can all sing form the same hymm sheets. [/size]

I say goodbye L. & P. Hello Brisa.....

 

[Nailsinlondon1]

"Read Doug Schoons Product Chemistry book, loads of info there....tip of the week!!!!......."

I did, I didn't realise that you could put a spin on chemistry. Also the toxicity, lethality, LD 50 doses, In one study, 110 men were exposed to a mean concentration of 361 ppm acetone for an average of 14.9 years. These men reported more heavy headedness, nausea, faintness, weight loss, eye irritation than a comparison group with no acetone exposure. They also did not perform as well on some neurobehavioural tests (reaction time and digit span tests). A few historical reports have also described long-term exposure effects such as irritation of the airways, throat, stomach and occasionally, dizziness, attacks of giddiness and a loss of strength.

Now this is interesting............. well, so as long as I don't have my clients sitting at my station for 14.9 years soaking of enhancements, I take it it is safe...............Well as the average soak off time is 20 minutes, and even if I do this once a month.......this comes to 240 minutes total, which is 4 hours per year......and that is taking soaking off to the extreme.........

The average busy well educated and well trained Tech, will soak off, half this amount of time..............

So where is your problem????



And I certainly wouldn't offer Acetone as a beverage.........



My clients stand more chance of suffering of any off the above mentioned ill effects , when going on their annual holiday......



1. heavy headedness, nausea, faintness............Sunstroke, to much alcohol and Sun

2. weight loss............Food poisoning, to much drink and greasy food

3. eye irritation.......to much Chlorine in the swimming pool

4. irritation of the airways, throat, stomach .....catching a cold, catching a tummy bug

5. and occasionally, dizziness, attacks of giddiness and a loss of strength......again bug, to much drink or food and partying......



And I added this one for good measure............

6. Like being stung by a huge jelly fish and having a heart attack, or a panic attack and/or severe burning of the skin...........



Good job they only expose themselves to these dangers only a couple a times a year........

Other wise holidays would have to go on the dangerous past time list......



So the occasional soak off with Acetone, by a trained and educated Technician should be a walk in the park..........

Saying that's......are there any dangerous dogs about...........

Well, never mind, if there are any mishaps we can always take the offending, unresponsible person to court and sue the hell out of them............

So anyway what is Doug going to tell me..... I have no problem with these products being used.....I have a problem with how they are described or proscribed.

Doug will tell ya to work smart and be educated about your products and know how to use them safely......page 31-32 in Nail Structure and Product Chemistry...............

TTFN From London x

 

[nonacrylicgel]

Touche mein Capitan!

oops hold on a minute.....don't we care about the nail technicians as well.....exposed to these products, generally in small rooms without venitllation and definitely no air extraction.... oops isn't there some H & S regulations about that......like the onus being on the employer to provide safe working conditions having carried out a risk analysis and then carried out precuationary measures as any reasonable man would.

And now its been pointed out should'nt you k to a non-involved chemist type person who doesn't make any money out of publishing books with an ever so slight spin.

Wasn't it Imperial Tobbacco that said "smoking is not harmful to your health!.....welll I trust the tobacco compnaies with my life.... do yo?

Now this is interesting............. well, so as long as I don't have my clients sitting at my station for 14.9 years soaking of enhancements, I take it it is safe...............Well as the average soak off time is 20 minutes, and even if I do this once a month.......this comes to 240 minutes total, which is 4 hours per year......and that is taking soaking off to the extreme.........

The average busy well educated and well trained Tech, will soak off, half this amount of time..............

So where is your problem????



And I certainly wouldn't offer Acetone as a beverage.........



My clients stand more chance of suffering of any off the above mentioned ill effects , when going on their annual holiday......



1. heavy headedness, nausea, faintness............Sunstroke, to much alcohol and Sun

2. weight loss............Food poisoning, to much drink and greasy food

3. eye irritation.......to much Chlorine in the swimming pool

4. irritation of the airways, throat, stomach .....catching a cold, catching a tummy bug

5. and occasionally, dizziness, attacks of giddiness and a loss of strength......again bug, to much drink or food and partying......



And I added this one for good measure............

6. Like being stung by a huge jelly fish and having a heart attack, or a panic attack and/or severe burning of the skin...........



Good job they only expose themselves to these dangers only a couple a times a year........

Other wise holidays would have to go on the dangerous past time list......



So the occasional soak off with Acetone, by a trained and educated Technician should be a walk in the park..........

Saying that's......are there any dangerous dogs about...........

Well, never mind, if there are any mishaps we can always take the offending, unresponsible person to court and sue the hell out of them............



Doug will tell ya to work smart and be educated about your products and know how to use them safely......page 31-32 in Nail Structure and Product Chemistry...............

TTFN From London x