Quantcast

Marks on Clients Natural Nail ? Advice Req please

SalonGeek

Help Support SalonGeek:

Karren

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,897
Reaction score
67
Location
Whiteley, Hampshire
Hi all

I applied a set of acrylic enhancements with tips on saturday - using CND Retention + and Perfect Pink and White. My service from prep to finish is exactly the same for all of my clients.

I got a call from my client a couple of days ago to say that she has lifting, easy enough i thought and made an appointment to sort.

She came today and its not lifting that i have seen before but white marks under the acrylic. I have not come across anything like ths yet and would like some help if possible ?

When i buffed one of the nails, as per doing a re-balance and buffed away most of the acrylic, the white marks appear to be on the nail plate in different sized patches on four fingers on left hand (she is right handed) and on her little finger on her right hand. Her nails are relatively short. The only thing i can compare it to is the white marks you may have on your fingers when people say you have a calcium deficiency ?

There were no marks at all on her fingers prior to applying the enhancements.

She had worn nail enhancments for a matter of days prior to this which i removed for her as she was not happy with them and she had considerable lifting round the cuticle and side walls (another technicians work). I removed these a few days prior to applying new set last saturday, using the wrap method and parrafin wax / heated mitts.

Im going to try and upload some pictures, though not clear, in the hope someone maybe able to shed some light on this as to whether it is something i have or have not done ??? or to know if this is some sort of reaction and what is the best advice for myself and my client. As i said i do the same routine for all my clients and this is the first time i have come across this.

I know it will be difficult to diagnose without seeing but i do hope i have given as much of a detailed pen picture as i can for you to maybe assist you in helping me ??

thanks

kx
 

Attachments

Lellipop

Lelli Loo Loo
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Messages
10,231
Reaction score
442
Location
Lellipop Land
Hiya Karren,
Its quite hard to tell from the pic's, But it sounds like Onycholysis.
JMHO
 

Karren

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,897
Reaction score
67
Location
Whiteley, Hampshire
im not sure hun, i though maybe that, but not sure, she hasnt knocked her nails or anything - why would onycholysis appear on odd nails ie 4 on one hand 1 on other ??

if it is this how will i know for sure ??

ive had this before but the white free edge on my nail sort of expanded up my nail plate and i knew i knocked it, my clients do not they are just blobs of white not touching free edge or side walls ?

kx


lesley1965 said:
Hiya Karren,
Its quite hard to tell from the pic's, But it sounds like Onycholysis.
JMHO
 

luckygirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2004
Messages
63
Reaction score
0
Location
drogheda
hi
cant really see from the pic but it sounds like she has been picking or pulling at them if its up aroud the cuticle area i have had people pull at them till they come off.. when you pull or pick an enhancement you get white marks on nail plates coz it takes some of the top layer comes off too.. some clients swear blind they didnt pick them and it just happened!
hope it helps but thats what it sounds like to me.
 

Karren

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,897
Reaction score
67
Location
Whiteley, Hampshire
thanks hun for yoru comments, maybe i was unclear, its not at all round the cuticle area - it if was i agree i could probably tell, the white blobs are just on teh nail plate above the free edge but not touching and not touching side walls either, i did buff one nail and it loooked like on natrual nail - no way coudl i see this was from picking, other than these marks nails are in great condition, oiling regular etc and looking fab

anyone else help ??? please ??? i need some experience here and advice as to how best to proceed, i know difficult pics, Geeg do you have any ideas at all that may help me ???

kx


luckygirl said:
hi
cant really see from the pic but it sounds like she has been picking or pulling at them if its up aroud the cuticle area i have had people pull at them till they come off.. when you pull or pick an enhancement you get white marks on nail plates coz it takes some of the top layer comes off too.. some clients swear blind they didnt pick them and it just happened!
hope it helps but thats what it sounds like to me.
 

Lellipop

Lelli Loo Loo
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Messages
10,231
Reaction score
442
Location
Lellipop Land
Leukonychia;
Can cause white spots on the nails, Or it could be that moisture as got under the enhancements and cause some bugs to get on the nail.
 

Karren

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,897
Reaction score
67
Location
Whiteley, Hampshire
hey you, thanks again for trying to help me hun really appreciate it

im gonna have to go read up on leukonychia to see how to treat / move forward it client has

omg so much to learn and understand eh !

not sure about the moisure but of course possible, only 5 fingers though ??? not sure - only this client too ??

kx

lesley1965 said:
Leukonychia;
Can cause white spots on the nails, Or it could be that moisture as got under the enhancements and cause some bugs to get on the nail.
 

Jeni Giles

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
1,060
Reaction score
142
Location
Chubbuck Idaho USA
It sounds and kind of looks like traumatic leuckonychia, the damage was done before you from the way it sounds, but leuckonychia can occur from harsh abrasives, e files (friction burns), or shrinkage as the acrylic set if the product was applied too wet. The nail plate grows out on a groove and rail system, and for some individuals the strength of their system isn't quite what it should be, so it's easier for that particular person's nail to be "derailed" which causes the white spots you are describing. The derailing is actually a small air pocket between the nail bed and the nail plate. (I know there is a great article My Big Fat Greek Leuckonychia that goes into a whole lot more detail than what I did.)

The other possibility is that the client was or is allergic to the monomer and it has caused a reaction. (typically this takes more than one incident of over exposure to the acrylic monomers before you get white spots) If this is the case, your client may be unable to wear traditional acrylics and may need to be switched to a gel or fabric enhancement.

If it is a leuckonychia, it will not get any larger and will grow out with the nail plate with in 4-6 months. If it is an allergic reaction the white spots will get larger, the fingers may become tender and the client should see a physician.

Hope this info helps.
 

geeg

Judge Gigi-Honorary Geek
Joined
Jan 12, 2003
Messages
32,641
Reaction score
1,033
Location
Benissa, Costa Blanca, Spain
From what I can see on the photo ... it looks like pressure is being put on the nail and turning it white. You may be working too wet on some nails and causing excess shrinkage of the product. Do the nail beds feel tender to her on those fingers?

I really doubt if it is Leukonychia!
The nail is also non living tissue, so allergic reaction is also out. Allergic reactions would happen on the skin not the plate.
 

Karren

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,897
Reaction score
67
Location
Whiteley, Hampshire
No tenderness on any fingers, no discomfort, no differences to the client apart from the look

Geeg where should i go from here ?

i have asked her to monitor them and let me know of any other changes to any of her nails. whilst her nails look great the marks do not, any ideas how long this may last if its working too wet on these fingers, as i said when i buffed the product off one of the fingers and re-applied product the marks were still there. Should i remove, should i continue to do her first maintenance / rebalance next week ?

Is there anything else this could be do you think ??

Thanks

kx


geeg said:
From what I can see on the photo ... it looks like pressure is being put on the nail and turning it white. You may be working too wet on some nails and causing excess shrinkage of the product. Do the nail beds feel tender to her on those fingers?

I really doubt if it is Leukonychia!
The nail is also non living tissue, so allergic reaction is also out. Allergic reactions would happen on the skin not the plate.
 

Deb379

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
675
Reaction score
14
Location
hants
Karren

Could it be Leukonychia punctata, which is whiteness appearing as scattered dots within the nail plate. These can appear at the cuticle area or partially along the nail plate, get bigger or smaller or disappear altogether, or grow out with the nail plate. Cause unknown, could be trauma, some naturopaths relate them to zinc, iron or calcium deficiency but no evidence to support this.

Leukonychai striata appears as white bands across the nail plate, can be result of illness, trauma, or too much pressure on cuticles when pushed back.
Leukonychia may also be a feature of onychomycosis.

It's not known what causes the whiteness could be due to air bubbles between nail plate layers or incomplete keratinisation of the plate cells so that nuclear debris remains in cells.

If the white is in the nail bed rather than nails could be anaemia .

Hope this helps, checked it out in my excellent book!

Deb379
 

mum

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
2,373
Reaction score
282
Location
Hertford and London
Could it be pocket lifting from a very thin nail plate? Sure there is an article on this site somewhere.

Marian
 

Karren

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,897
Reaction score
67
Location
Whiteley, Hampshire
Hey Marian

yes i looked at that thread and also the Leukonychia tutorial (though this didnt say if you could continue using enhancements or not, and geeg thought it is unlikely the prob)

if it is lifting i was wondering how long it may take to go, and odd that its only on 4 fingers one hand and 1 finger other hand ?? and has not happened to any other client (i have just under 20 clients i have been maintaining last couple of months)

as i said i buffed down one finger and it looked like it was on the natural nail and when i re-applied product it still showed through ?

any ideas what i should do from here for her she doesnt have thin nails either, and shes not in any discomfort?

kx

mum said:
Could it be pocket lifting from a very thin nail plate? Sure there is an article on this site somewhere.

Marian
 

gracy

nutty geek
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Messages
506
Reaction score
14
Location
uk
i get this all the time with my horrible nails, i went down the road of ratio too wet and backbobbing with a wet brush, but it did`nt matter what i did it was always the same and i never got it on other peoples, just my own.

my nail plates have always been extremely thin and the slightest amount of pressure from a tip ALWAYS has this effect, even applying a form causes me problems, thats why you never see pics of my own nails they are ugly ! :cry:
 

Sassy Hassy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
13,102
Reaction score
694
Location
Eire
Hiya Karren - Spooky strikes again! Have had what i think is the same prob as you. Had a client come in wanting infills on a set I hadn't done. Asyou know I won't do this so presuaded her to start again. She did and having insisted she had gels on proceeded to file them off - it became apparent that they were l&p, but as she was so adamant they were gel I carried on filing them off. Put the new set on and no probs. After a few fills she decided she wanted a new set, so started all over again. A few days later she phoned me up to say they were in a terrible state so got her back in - and they were. They looked as though someone had painted a streaky French pink polish over them and were just plain awful - I was clueless as I had never seen it before and sorted them out foc. When I was training on Weds I mentioned it to my trainer and she said it was because her nails were very weak - she showed me her own which had the same thing on a couple of spots on her nails and it was the same. It was minute areas of pocket lifting where the weak nail had separated from the gel. I asked why it should suddenly happen and she said that nails are funny things and don't always react the same. Hope this helps - my client is back in tomoz so let you know what happens.
 

mum

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
2,373
Reaction score
282
Location
Hertford and London
Hi Karren

Sounds very much to me that the previous tech thinned areas of the nails. Pocket lifting could be lifting on the overlay from the nail plate due to thin nails or it could be lifting of the nail plate from the nail bed, also due to thin nails (sounds like the latter)

The spots may not have been there before you started but even gently buffing followed by a new overlay could have caused the nail plate to 'pop'. If the client hasn't got sensitive nail beds she may not be feeling any discomfort.

If the plates are this damaged then extensions may not be a good idea. Plus these areas will be a problem when they reach the free edge (open to infection etc). If they need protecting I would suggest using a fibre/resin system (with or without fibre) e.g. Fabric. Resin is very gentle on a nail plate and has minimal shrinkage.

Another thought, there is a fungal infection (v rare) that eats away at the nail plate causing irregular white spots where the nail plate appears crumbly (can't remember the name). If this is a possibility, straight to the Dr's

marian
xx

PS white spots rarely mean a calcium deficiency. If someone was deficient in a vitamin there would be other symptoms not just white spots. If there was genuine deficiency it would usually be a zinc deficiency rather than calcium. I think the calcium 'story' came about from milk being good for nails, teeth and bones which it is.
 

Sassy Hassy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
13,102
Reaction score
694
Location
Eire
Hiya Karren - my client came back in today, nails looking a lot better. Had an extra long chat about her nails. They are very weak anyway, but the previous place she had them done used e-files and we think this is where the problems started. I scuplted the repairs that needed doing so reducing filing when blending in tips (or not in this case!) I also used a gel with fibreglass fibres in it (LCN's fibrique) just to give the gel a bit of extra oomph! Have made a load of notes on her record card, and together we are monitoring the situation. Her nails are really thin and sensitive so extra careful with filing, keeping the gel thin so no intense heat when curing etc. Will keep you posted if any other news arises.
 

Karren

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,897
Reaction score
67
Location
Whiteley, Hampshire
Sarah hun shes going to try and pop in Monday lunchtime (ive told her a few more experienced Nail Technicians will be here !, so as you're gonna be here maybe you could have a little looky for me ?

kx
 

Sassy Hassy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
13,102
Reaction score
694
Location
Eire
Sure, no probs! Be interesting to see if it's the same thing!
Karren said:
Sarah hun shes going to try and pop in Monday lunchtime (ive told her a few more experienced Nail Technicians will be here !, so as you're gonna be here maybe you could have a little looky for me ?

kx
 

Latest posts

Top