Nail lamp recommendations

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Trinity

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there's certain ways to come across to people especially when online.
Absolutely, and you didn't do that very well did you, I'm sure you'll do better next time.
 

ethicalclaws

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Thank you very much Nancy for replying in such a constructive way! This has given me alot to think about. I think the reason I'm so relaxed in my approach to nails lies in my training. Although I really hate to blow the whistle here, Australian ****** (college?) Will pass just about anybody who walks in the door for the 6mth (full time) nail tech course as long as their homework is completed. Full stop end of story. There is nobody at ****** to say you need to do the course again or your not applying yourself properly etc, its horrendous. As far as the chemistry of gel we are given very very little. Private schools (where I first tried to learn), are constantly getting audited then shut down which happened to me half way through so they are even worse then tafe. Although this may put a very negative light on me..I did find that I was sort of left to learn the ropes myself, so i did. To put everyone's worrying minds at ease I do not work on clients yet (No hear-attack needed yet ladies). I am about to go back yet AGAIN to ****** though and this is why I joined this site, for some support. You sound like a very open minded, intelligent woman Nancy. And I sound like an idiot now..

[name removed]
 

ethicalclaws

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The name of my Australian government training school got automatically taken down once I tried to send it. Not sure why, sorry about that ladies
 

ethicalclaws

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Noodle

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The name of my Australian government training school got automatically taken down once I tried to send it. Not sure why, sorry about that ladies
We do not allow the naming and shaming of companies or individuals on Salon Geek, so that’s the reason why your post has been edited.
 

ethicalclaws

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We do not allow the naming and shaming of companies or individuals on Salon Geek, so that’s the reason why your post has been edited.
I'd remove my whole post but having difficulty in working out how too. Sorry if I violated any rules, I didn't realise. If your able to take it down and would like to im fine either way with what you decide
 

Noodle

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I'd remove my whole post but having difficulty in working out how too. Sorry if I violated any rules, I didn't realise. If your able to take it down and would like to im fine either way with what you decide
As the post has now been edited, it’s fine to remain on the thread.
 

BobSweden

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@BobSweden, do you know if there's any recommendation for those who are "stuck" with lamps that are not brand lamps, that is they weren't tested in a lab and approved for specific gels? I mean if there's anything they can do to reduce (if eliminating is not possible) the risk of under-curing other than buying a completely new set of certified gels and an tested lamp?

I'm no expert myself here, and one "obvious" mitigation that might work is giving gel more time to cure (like for example, 80 seconds instead of 60). Do you know if that works at all?
There are two issues to consider. The brightness of the UV lamp, but also the how much photo initiator is used in the gel / GP. Both can vary greatly - so while increasing cure time can help, it is impossible to estimate the required extra time without specific lab testing.

When we have customers who buy test kits and want to use their own lamp for testing, we recommend doubling the cure time. But the assumption is that they will only do this a few times before buying our lamp. I can't recommend this as a safe strategy for the long term.

Perhaps another question is, what value is your career and protecting your health? Often I think the problem is not so much the cost of the brand lamps, especially considering this is a tool essential to the business and that as a %age of the income generated is very cheap, but that many prefer the sexy option of buying hundreds of colours.
 

AlexTheKing

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When we have customers who buy test kits and want to use their own lamp for testing, we recommend doubling the cure time. But the assumption is that they will only do this a few times before buying our lamp. I can't recommend this as a safe strategy for the long term.
Another downside is overcuring can make gels "fragile" and sort of melded into the nail plate.

many prefer the sexy option of buying hundreds of colours.
Are nail techs doing that mainly because it's customers who like to have options?
 

Haircutz

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Are nail techs doing that mainly because it's customers who like to have options?
When I did gel nails, many of my older clients used to complain that there was too much choice and to help them choose. Often, those sort of clients would choose the colour you were wearing yourself, so it was a good opportunity to use up the less popular colours.
 

ethicalclaws

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Another downside is overcuring can make gels "fragile" and sort of melded into the nail plate.


Are nail techs doing that mainly because it's customers who like to have options?
Could you explain more about "melded" to the nail plate a little more just when you have time please. I've never heard of this. You certainly have some very interesting knowledge to bring in...Thanks!
 

ethicalclaws

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There are two issues to consider. The brightness of the UV lamp, but also the how much photo initiator is used in the gel / GP. Both can vary greatly - so while increasing cure time can help, it is impossible to estimate the required extra time without specific lab testing.

When we have customers who buy test kits and want to use their own lamp for testing, we recommend doubling the cure time. But the assumption is that they will only do this a few times before buying our lamp. I can't recommend this as a safe strategy for the long term.

Perhaps another question is, what value is your career and protecting your health? Often I think the problem is not so much the cost of the brand lamps, especially considering this is a tool essential to the business and that as a %age of the income generated is very cheap, but that many prefer the sexy option of buying hundreds of colours.
Very interesting Alex..I have absolutely no issue financially with buying a more expensive lamp its just that as of yet everything has cured in my SUN so haven't needed too. However..with the information your giving me there's more to consider now.
 

NancySyd

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Very interesting Alex..I have absolutely no issue financially with buying a more expensive lamp its just that as of yet everything has cured in my SUN so haven't needed too. However..with the information your giving me there's more to consider now.
I just want to correct your statement because I think it makes Bob and Alex's points. What you said was - "its just that as of yet everything has cured in my SUN..." What you really mean is "everything has hardened in my SUN." Gel hardens at about only 55% cured, while a proper cure is 95%. So you think it's cured and it's not. You really don't know whether it has cured unless you have access to a testing lab.
 

BobSweden

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Another downside is overcuring can make gels "fragile" and sort of melded into the nail plate.
Hey Alex, not to criticise at all, but while this is what is commonly thought, it is not correct. When the gel is exposed to the UV, the chemical reactions starts. At the beginning there are a lot of oligomer chains that can connect and the most heat is generated. But like concrete hardening, as the gel gets harder, it becomes more difficult for the oligomers to connect to polymers or form polymers themselves. So the heat steadily decreases.

Finally, it become impossible for the remaining oligomers to connect. That is when the product is correctly cured and the hardened gel cools. But in truth, there are about 5% of the oligomers still unconnected.

It is unlikely that so much heat would be generated that the physical / chemical properties of the gel would be changed and the product become more unreliable. Or for the heat to be so high as to cause immense pain and possibly nail bed damage.

So now overcoming takes a different meaning - not curing too long, but it is used when heat spikes occur because the lamp and gel is not correctly matched.

Hope this helps.
 

AlexTheKing

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Thanks for the great insights @BobSweden!

Finally, it become impossible for the remaining oligomers to connect. That is when the product is correctly cured and the hardened gel cools. But in truth, there are about 5% of the oligomers still unconnected.
Does it mean that even a perfect lamp-oligomer combination (tested and confirmed) will still have the 5%? If so, is it correct to assume that the residual 5% have been scientifically proven to cause no harm? And hypothetically, if 5% may be ok, can 10% be within a "safety margin" too?

So now overcoming takes a different meaning - not curing too long, but it is used when heat spikes occur because the lamp and gel is not correctly matched.
Sorry, I'm having issues understanding this bit. If we have a lamp-gel mismatch "excess" heat can be generated, and this is just one possible sign of a mismatch which doesn't necessarily mean the gel will also exceed the 5% of non-polymerised oligomer?
 

BobSweden

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> Does it mean that even a perfect lamp-oligomer combination (tested and confirmed) will still have the 5%? If so, is it correct to assume that the residual 5% have been scientifically proven to cause no harm? And hypothetically, if 5% may be ok, can 10% be within a "safety margin" too?

Yes. The potential for develop an allergy exists. But it is unlikely as the free oligomers are encapsulated in the cured product and not in skin contact.

> Sorry, I'm having issues understanding this bit. If we have a lamp-gel mismatch "excess" heat can be generated, and this is just one possible sign of a mismatch which doesn't necessarily mean the gel will also exceed the 5% of non-polymerised oligomer?

Yes, it is one sign of a gel-lamp mismatch. If the curing time is too short, of course more than 5% of the gel may be uncured.
 

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