Need a help on sorting a problem which occurred with make-up practice!

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Vika

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Dec 6, 2014
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Hi!

Recently I did my 3rd Make-Up practice for NVQ Level 2 exam and for my training as well, I wanted to try to do "the Bridal Make-Up" because I haven't been doing it until then. I know that liquid eyeliner should be used for Bridal instead of eye pencil and tried using it on my practice. I'm attaching the picture of this eye liner

10070117.jpg
I was really not happy how I did the eyes... it looks terrible... and I don't know what I really did wrong. I applied this eye liner and it was all cracking and left not straight and unbalanced line with spaces, I just couldn't do it, and I thought that I could use Make-Up remover and try doing it again, but the second time was just the same. I really don't know what to do and what to think, I don't understand whether it's my techniques that are not good, or is it the eye liner, or it's brush, or is it the model on which I did the Make-Up. She has wrinkles around eyes as well, so I thought - couldn't this be a reason of a problem? I would be very grateful if someone could give me advice, or explain what is my problem and what should I do to sort this out.
Below I'm attaching the pictures of a model on which I did this "Bridal Make-Up" practice:

Before
DSC07672 - 2.jpg

DSC07673 - 2.jpg


After
DSC07680 - 2.jpg

DSC07684 - 2.jpg



Thanks to everyone who will be so kind to help me with this!:)
 
I don't think that is correct saying that you can't use eye pencil for bridal - why are they telling you to do this, what is the reason? I think this liquid liner is too thick on the top and definitely don't take it straight underneath the eye - it's too harsh. I use a soft eye pencil or eyeshadow softly on the lower lash line and a thin line of liquid / gel and soften it with pencil. How did you apply this liquid liner? Straight from the packaging? Don't let this put you down - it just takes practise x
 
I don't think that is correct saying that you can't use eye pencil for bridal - why are they telling you to do this, what is the reason? I think this liquid liner is too thick on the top and definitely don't take it straight underneath the eye - it's too harsh. I use a soft eye pencil or eyeshadow softly on the lower lash line and a thin line of liquid / gel and soften it with pencil. How did you apply this liquid liner? Straight from the packaging? Don't let this put you down - it just takes practise x

Thank you for your reply and advice Tiffany!:)

This eye Make-Up I did by applying liquid eye liner straight from the packaging - yes. The reason they're telling me to use liquid eye liner and not eye pencil - is because for Bridal you need to apply waterproof Make-Up, because people are crying on the wedding day and this is because you need to use liquid eye liner instead of eye pencil - because it's waterproof, and eye pencil - is not, and eye shadows aren't as well... So I'm really surprised to hear you saying absolutely different thing, then the teachers at school told me to do.:confused: hahaha So, can you explain this to me please, because I'm really confused now? Are you applying the eye Make-Up for Bridal by the way you told me? And are your clients happy with it after their occasion, and not complaining that the make-up wasn't strong enough to hold their tearing?
Also, I have another question, and will be very happy if you will be so kind to explain this to me... I'm wondering what are you doing with the inner eyelid when you're colouring the lower and upper lid, are you also colouring the inner eyelid? And if yes, then how are you doing it and with which products? And, are you using different products to colour it when you're doing Bridal and just Evening?
Thank you

xxx
 
I was never taught to use only liquid liner for bridal make up, it depends on the look you are trying to achieve for the brides preference. I would personally always use pencil eyeliner for the lower lid and the waterline as I think sometimes liquid liner is too harsh a line for the bottom lid.
Depending on what the bride wanted, you could use an eyeshadow on the bottom lid also to create a natural smoky effect. Liquid liner is great, just definitely takes practice practice practice though so stick at it and you'll get it :)

Xx
 
Are you using an eye primer firstly? Always prime the eye ( using an eye primer not your usual face primer) to stop the creasing and I use eye shadow on the bottom lid with a bit of pencil blended and gel or if you find it easier the eye line pen on the top which you may find easier to get the fine line. Always start you line thin and build up, it's easier to go thicker but harder to take away
 
I would personally very rarely use liquid eyeliner for a bridal makeup, it's much too heavy and harsh. There are definitely waterproof pencil eyeliners out there-I use them on myself due to my watery eyes, and on bridal make ups. I use Art Deco waterproof pencil liners (they have loads of colours), even Rimmel do a waterproof retractable eyeliner if you want something a bit cheaper to try first. I would also never apply eyeliner around the whole eye, this will make the eyes appear smaller and again looks too harsh. I would suggest starting at the outer corner of the eye, and use gentle strokes inwards so that the application gets lighter, and underneath just apply a small amount on the lower outer corner (only ever on the skin, never on the inner rim). This is just an idea on how to apply- there are many methods but hopefully this is a simple technique for you to try. You can also apply a special eyelid primer that will hold eyeshadows in place more effectively. Xx
 
The reason they're telling me to use liquid eye liner and not eye pencil - is because for Bridal you need to apply waterproof Make-Up, because people are crying on the wedding day and this is because you need to use liquid eye liner instead of eye pencil - because it's waterproof, and eye pencil - is not

Hi Vika, I can't fathom by the life of me why they (I guess your teachers from the make-up course?) would tell you that eye pencils are not waterproof. There are always new formulas and textures coming out and the cosmetic research is very active!
Nowadays you can find of various brands for a wide range of prices as well: MUFE, MAC, Rimmel, Kiko and even the super cheap Essence!
Oh and eyeshadows are waterproof too, for example MUFE Aqua Cream Eyeshadow that I have to wipe off with a specific make-up remover or give up and go to sleep with it because it won't come off :D

Back to the make-up: I think you've done a great job with the fluid eyeliner, you must have a nice steady hand observing how wrinkled her eye area is. You really couldn't do a better job than that all things considered.
Just to make the eyes look younger and "fresher" I would have avoided lining the lower lash line. Although I see the intention to give the illusion of bigger eyes, in my opinion such application drags her eyes down, giving her a sad, melancholic look... If you can picture the make-up without that (just cover the screen with your finger) you can see how much better it looks!
In order to achieve bigger eyes a white or nude kohl liner could be used on waterline and highlight the inner corner of the eye that you might have done already, but can't say for sure from the pic. And assuming you're using a waterproof mascara, applying it on the lower lashes too adds to the definition of the eyes and looks beautiful in the pictures.

Also, just for the sake of babbling about make-up (you can see how much I love to do that already ;) ) looking at the picture taken from the side I see the tail of the eyeliner kind going down and then flick up. For experience I understand that you, naturally, applied the eyeliner with her eyes shut and her dropping eyelid corner does the rest giving that final result. To improve this I would mark (a small dot really) the outer corner of the eye where the flick should end with her eyes OPEN, then ask her to close them and proceed with the eyeliner application as usual but using the small dot as a guide. I don't know if I managed to explain what I mean, but this trick will allow you to achieve a clean, more beautiful line seen from the side and the perception of a much more "lifted" eye especially with hooded, mature eyelids.

I apologize in advance to have sticked my nose in the whole make-up instead of restraining myself to your question only, I hope I didn't sound too entitled and I hope I didn't offend you in any way. I just can't help myself when it comes to this passion of mine and having quite some time on my hands right now just makes it worse ;)

Let us know if you found a solution that works for you! xox
 
I was never taught to use only liquid liner for bridal make up, it depends on the look you are trying to achieve for the brides preference. I would personally always use pencil eyeliner for the lower lid and the waterline as I think sometimes liquid liner is too harsh a line for the bottom lid.
Depending on what the bride wanted, you could use an eyeshadow on the bottom lid also to create a natural smoky effect. Liquid liner is great, just definitely takes practice practice practice though so stick at it and you'll get it :)

Xx

Thank you Emm!

Everything you said is very interesting... I need to change the way I'm doing the Bridal Make-Up then!:) I feel a bit frustrated about liquid eye liner now, and really not sure should I be using this one or maybe buy another one?... I also wondering if it can be a brush of the liquid eye liner that can make it difficult to make a straight line? I'm not using make-Up on myself a lot, but sometimes I do use liquid eye liner for my upper lid and it was actually not as difficult to do as for my model, but it was different sort of brush as well and this one is not like the one I used for myself, there different types of them and I'm wondering whether one type can be easier to use then the other?

This is the sort of brush I used for myself

0f1a628c.png

And this is the sort of brush I used for a model

w7-paint-the-line-liquid-eyeliner-review-swat-L-9ZDE1j.jpg

Thank you very much for your advice, I'm really pleased that all you people can give me such a useful information that can help me to move on my job and sort out any frustrations occurring during it!;) x
 
Are you using an eye primer firstly? Always prime the eye ( using an eye primer not your usual face primer) to stop the creasing and I use eye shadow on the bottom lid with a bit of pencil blended and gel or if you find it easier the eye line pen on the top which you may find easier to get the fine line. Always start you line thin and build up, it's easier to go thicker but harder to take away

Thank you for your reply and advice Miss_Sunshine85!:)

I'm not using the eye primer, and actually haven't heard about it yet!:D I have face primer, but haven't used this one yet either, as I was using for all my 3 types of Make-Up: moisturiser, concealer, foundation, and thought that I don't need to use a primer with it as well... I probably need to go and buy eye primer as well if you think it's that essential. But have one question, if I will use this eye primer, is it the base for the eye shadows? Should I be using foundation first, then eye primer and then eye shadows?
Don't really understand what you mean buy saying - "eye line pen", is it this one?
soft-eyeliner-pen-11214220-product_rd-959325540.jpg
If it is this one, then I'm afraid that I cannot use it for my job because of the hygienic reasons... Here you cannot cut away a piece after using it on one of the clients, or have a disposable brush to use with it, though I think that it would be much easier to use this one, but I don't think there is any hygienic ways to use it for different clients.:( Also would like to know the difference between gel eye liner and liquid one, as you tell that you're using it, maybe you can explain this to me please?)) Because I never used the gel one and don't understand the difference of it from the liquid one...:oops:
 
I prefer using a gel liner. I think the problem here is the eyeliner is way too harsh for this lady's age and skin. She has hooded eyelids which then make flicks very hard. I would have used a brown kohl pencil for this to make it softer as the harsh black making her eyes appear smaller. Try and imaging she has her hooded kids so you want to open her eyes more so the harsh liner all around her eyes are darkening and closing the eyes even more xx
 
Hi Vika,

Sorry for not explaining properly.

Firstly the hygiene with the pen, you can always use the customers own or buy like a cheaper brand one and add it to the cost of the make up if it's easier for you and makes you more confident.

Or if you use a gel, you can get it in a pot and I use an eyeliner brush to apply it, an angled one is best for this job and a gel is better than liquid as gel has more consistence to it than liquid so you can build you lines better.

When doing make up you should never use too much moisturiser on the skin as this will make it greasy that it needs to be and make up won't stay as long.

Always do the eyes first before applying any other make up by applying doing the eye brows (avoid using wax if it's for a bride as this can look to glossy on pictures, use powder or pencil) then add the eye primer to the eye lid this is a base and prevents creasing on the lid and makes the eye shadow colours bolder. Never put foundation on the eye, then you can add your eye shadows and blend to the effect you want, put concealer under the eyes or use corrective make up for any bags or pigment correcting.

Then add primer to the skin, again any concealer or correcting concealing to be done then foundation.

If you are contouring do this after foundation but never contour in anyone over 50 or has a lot of wrinkles.

Then blush then setting powder to give flawless finish

Hope this helps
 
I would personally very rarely use liquid eyeliner for a bridal makeup, it's much too heavy and harsh. There are definitely waterproof pencil eyeliners out there-I use them on myself due to my watery eyes, and on bridal make ups. I use Art Deco waterproof pencil liners (they have loads of colours), even Rimmel do a waterproof retractable eyeliner if you want something a bit cheaper to try first. I would also never apply eyeliner around the whole eye, this will make the eyes appear smaller and again looks too harsh. I would suggest starting at the outer corner of the eye, and use gentle strokes inwards so that the application gets lighter, and underneath just apply a small amount on the lower outer corner (only ever on the skin, never on the inner rim). This is just an idea on how to apply- there are many methods but hopefully this is a simple technique for you to try. You can also apply a special eyelid primer that will hold eyeshadows in place more effectively. Xx


Thank you Eager Beaver!:)

I never heard that eye liner pencils can be waterproof, and thought that it will smudge a lot after a person cry on their wedding day... I'm very grateful to you for your advice as it looks very helpful! I just have one question, when you say - "only ever on the skin, never on the inner rim" - do you mean to not use eye pencil on the inner eye lid? Sorry, my native language is Russian and I'm still on my level of learning English and do not understand some words still...:oops: hehehe

xx
 
I would bin the idea of liquid liner; it's hard to sterilise and not that easy to work with.

Eyeliner is tricky and it takes a LOT of practice to be confident with it, so get practising on anyone who'll let you. Try a gel liner (in a pot) instead and try a few different brushes, there are seriously loads out there, try a few and see what you like. Personally I love the illamasqua gel liner (but you can get cheaper ones in boots) and these are my favourite two brushes:

bdellium 762 small angle brush: https://www.love-makeup.co.uk/bdellium-studio-line-small-angle-762s-p-4767.html (they also do the 763 which is still small but a wee bit bigger, I like that for brows!)

Louise Young Fine Liner Brush (LY24 or LY24a which is synthetic, which I prefer). http://www.louiseyoungcosmetics.com/brushes.php

Re your client, she has a bit of a hooded eye so the liner on the top is a little thick for her eye, you wouldn't see much of the lid makeup. It also makes the fine wing you've done difficult to see. A winged liner doesn't really suit these eyes. Unless you get asked for a winged liner, stop the line at the end of the lashline. I probably wouldn't do winged liner for bridal makeup anyway, unless they're going for pin up style makeup. I would just add a nice line, as thin or thick as the bride would like.

Liquid liner isn't a great look for the lower lashline either. As others have said, it's too harsh and it's super tricky to get even, especially on clients with more texture to their skin.

I personally prefer using eyeshadow if I want to shade the lower lashline and I stick to gel liner on the top.

Get yourself on youtube and watch some tutorials and practice on yourself until you're happy with it. Then practice on friends and family til you're more confident.
 
Hi Vika, I can't fathom by the life of me why they (I guess your teachers from the make-up course?) would tell you that eye pencils are not waterproof. There are always new formulas and textures coming out and the cosmetic research is very active!
Nowadays you can find of various brands for a wide range of prices as well: MUFE, MAC, Rimmel, Kiko and even the super cheap Essence!
Oh and eyeshadows are waterproof too, for example MUFE Aqua Cream Eyeshadow that I have to wipe off with a specific make-up remover or give up and go to sleep with it because it won't come off :D

Back to the make-up: I think you've done a great job with the fluid eyeliner, you must have a nice steady hand observing how wrinkled her eye area is. You really couldn't do a better job than that all things considered.
Just to make the eyes look younger and "fresher" I would have avoided lining the lower lash line. Although I see the intention to give the illusion of bigger eyes, in my opinion such application drags her eyes down, giving her a sad, melancholic look... If you can picture the make-up without that (just cover the screen with your finger) you can see how much better it looks!
In order to achieve bigger eyes a white or nude kohl liner could be used on waterline and highlight the inner corner of the eye that you might have done already, but can't say for sure from the pic. And assuming you're using a waterproof mascara, applying it on the lower lashes too adds to the definition of the eyes and looks beautiful in the pictures.

Also, just for the sake of babbling about make-up (you can see how much I love to do that already ;) ) looking at the picture taken from the side I see the tail of the eyeliner kind going down and then flick up. For experience I understand that you, naturally, applied the eyeliner with her eyes shut and her dropping eyelid corner does the rest giving that final result. To improve this I would mark (a small dot really) the outer corner of the eye where the flick should end with her eyes OPEN, then ask her to close them and proceed with the eyeliner application as usual but using the small dot as a guide. I don't know if I managed to explain what I mean, but this trick will allow you to achieve a clean, more beautiful line seen from the side and the perception of a much more "lifted" eye especially with hooded, mature eyelids.

I apologize in advance to have sticked my nose in the whole make-up instead of restraining myself to your question only, I hope I didn't sound too entitled and I hope I didn't offend you in any way. I just can't help myself when it comes to this passion of mine and having quite some time on my hands right now just makes it worse ;)

Let us know if you found a solution that works for you! xox


Hi Black Rose, thank you very much for your descriptive and lovely reply!:)

Eye pencils as (you understand correctly) my teachers tells me - won't hold on the eye and smudge when the person is crying, what usually happens on weddings. I actually, when applying eye pencil to my eye make - up also finding it smudging especially if the environment is hot... So considering all of it I create an opinion that there's nothing to be used except the liquid eye liner. As I see many of the people who replied to my thread, and who are make-up artists by themselves, including you:), all telling that eye pencil can be used so I feel now that it's quite confident knowledge and I can trust it and try doing it as well!
It will be interesting to try those super waterproof eye shadows used by you:D as well, I think sometimes it can be useful...
I'm very grateful for your kind and lovely comment about the job that I've done, it really cheers me up!;) It's made me a bit more calm and glad with myself... because after I did this make-up I was very frustrated and start to doubt in my quality of performance.:( I agree with your judgement as well, and I can see my fails the same way as you can, and I'm not offended when someone who knows for sure how to do that correct way, can point my fails out just to help me and to give and advice how to avoid repeating those fails again - I feel grateful and happy for this!
I only want to ask about this white or nude kohl liner, that you mentioned in your message... is it an eye pencil? And how do I have to apply it? On the lower eye lid, or on the higher and the inner one as well?

I can see your passion about your job and your professional knowledge, and I of course do not feel offended in anyway, but grateful and happy that you can give me so many helpful and useful advices, and information that can help me so much doing my job as I should and to avoid doing fails that creating the problems and giving me stress! Thank you very much!:)

xx
 
I prefer using a gel liner. I think the problem here is the eyeliner is way too harsh for this lady's age and skin. She has hooded eyelids which then make flicks very hard. I would have used a brown kohl pencil for this to make it softer as the harsh black making her eyes appear smaller. Try and imaging she has her hooded kids so you want to open her eyes more so the harsh liner all around her eyes are darkening and closing the eyes even more xx


Hi Mollie!

Yes, I agree with you, but I didn't understand very well what you mean by saying - "Try and imaging she has her hooded kids", can you explain this to me please?)) My native language is Russian and considering that I live in England for 2 years yet, I still don't understand some English words and colloquialisms!:oops:

Thank you very much for your comment and advice, I will try to do that by the way that you're saying...;)

xx
 
Sorry just meant hooded lids this bloody phone changes it to kids lol x
 
Hi Vika,

Sorry for not explaining properly.

Firstly the hygiene with the pen, you can always use the customers own or buy like a cheaper brand one and add it to the cost of the make up if it's easier for you and makes you more confident.

Or if you use a gel, you can get it in a pot and I use an eyeliner brush to apply it, an angled one is best for this job and a gel is better than liquid as gel has more consistence to it than liquid so you can build you lines better.

When doing make up you should never use too much moisturiser on the skin as this will make it greasy that it needs to be and make up won't stay as long.

Always do the eyes first before applying any other make up by applying doing the eye brows (avoid using wax if it's for a bride as this can look to glossy on pictures, use powder or pencil) then add the eye primer to the eye lid this is a base and prevents creasing on the lid and makes the eye shadow colours bolder. Never put foundation on the eye, then you can add your eye shadows and blend to the effect you want, put concealer under the eyes or use corrective make up for any bags or pigment correcting.

Then add primer to the skin, again any concealer or correcting concealing to be done then foundation.

If you are contouring do this after foundation but never contour in anyone over 50 or has a lot of wrinkles.

Then blush then setting powder to give flawless finish

Hope this helps

Hi Miss_Sunshine85!:)

Thank you very much for more descriptive explanation, but I think that I can consider using this eye pen after I've done my practice and start my business, because it will be too much stress for now and too much expenses to spend just for practice... but your advice useful of course, and in the closest future I will probably give it a go!;)

I can see now, after so many people tells me here that gel liner is better that I need to change my liquid one on one of those gel ones, because if it's going to help me to make my work easier and better, and also take the stress of me then it worth buying it of course! I actually thought that angled brush should be used only for eye brows and didn't realize that it can be used for eye liner as well... but I only have one doubt that I can use it, because this brush is not disposable one as I understand, you won't be able to put it back in the pot after you did it once to prevent contamination and cross - infection, so I'm puzzled what you would do in such case? Are you performing your make-up not with a disposable brush?

And I would be very grateful if you can explain to me a few more things, please :) (sorry if I'm being annoying hahaha):

When you're telling that I should add primer to the skin, is it used instead of moisturiser?
When you're saying that I shouldn't perform any contouring on people over 50, do you mean contouring of the eyes with a liner or contouring of a whole face with shading and highlighting?
And also, when you say that I should apply setting powder after I applied blushers - is it correct? I thought that you should use a powder after foundation, because I afraid that if you will use it above blush then it will ruin it and mark the colour of blushers and will make it look wrong, doesn't it?

Thank you so much! xxx
 
Vika, buy a cheap metal spatula and palette off eBay and scrape a bit of the eyeliner onto it. Never dip a used brush into the pot. Your course provider should be covering hygiene with you as a very basic but important element!
 
I would bin the idea of liquid liner; it's hard to sterilise and not that easy to work with.

Eyeliner is tricky and it takes a LOT of practice to be confident with it, so get practising on anyone who'll let you. Try a gel liner (in a pot) instead and try a few different brushes, there are seriously loads out there, try a few and see what you like. Personally I love the illamasqua gel liner (but you can get cheaper ones in boots) and these are my favourite two brushes:

bdellium 762 small angle brush: https://www.love-makeup.co.uk/bdellium-studio-line-small-angle-762s-p-4767.html (they also do the 763 which is still small but a wee bit bigger, I like that for brows!)

Louise Young Fine Liner Brush (LY24 or LY24a which is synthetic, which I prefer). http://www.louiseyoungcosmetics.com/brushes.php

Re your client, she has a bit of a hooded eye so the liner on the top is a little thick for her eye, you wouldn't see much of the lid makeup. It also makes the fine wing you've done difficult to see. A winged liner doesn't really suit these eyes. Unless you get asked for a winged liner, stop the line at the end of the lashline. I probably wouldn't do winged liner for bridal makeup anyway, unless they're going for pin up style makeup. I would just add a nice line, as thin or thick as the bride would like.

Liquid liner isn't a great look for the lower lashline either. As others have said, it's too harsh and it's super tricky to get even, especially on clients with more texture to their skin.

I personally prefer using eyeshadow if I want to shade the lower lashline and I stick to gel liner on the top.

Get yourself on youtube and watch some tutorials and practice on yourself until you're happy with it. Then practice on friends and family til you're more confident.

Hi Salj!:)

Thank you very much for your helpful and informative advice, all of this information is very useful for me... I now think that I will change my liquid eye liner to the gel one, as all of you people think that this will be better to do! I looked for some on Boots, and have found one from Barry M that looks quite good, so I'm going to buy it!:)

Thank you for those links you've given to me, I actually have make-up brushes kit so want to try working with them first and then if I don't like them maybe will search for something else. I also bought special disposable liquid eye liner wands, but they were to thick to get into the tube of my liquid eye liner, so I hope that I will be able to use them with this gel one... as it will be a bit offensive to throw them away:(

I already have wooden spatulas, do you think they won't be good to use it for gel eye liner? I have plastic palette as well... I'm trying to do everything I can to have hygiene under control, though I'm doing my practice only on the people I know that they're not ill of anything, I still trying to do this for a habit, but when I used this liquid eye liner I couldn't get in the tube with my disposable brushes so I had to use the brush which goes with it.:eek:

Thank you very much for your lovely comment and helpful advices! xx
 

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