Politics!

['chelle]

There's a thread at the moment discussing our different religious beliefs, and I must admit, when I saw the OP I groaned inwardly, because I thought it was inevitable that it would quickly degenerate into fighting and be closed, but I was pleasantly surprised (to date!). Its gone really well, some interesting views have been raised, and it's an interesting read with no cattyness or offensive remarks :hug:

So, I thought we could have a go at doing the same with politics. I'm not a religious enthusiast and dont have any strong religious views, but politics is a debate I can get my teeth into a bit more. Before we start though, I think the same rules should apply; this is a debate, if you are likely to be offended by the views of others please go to another thread! State your views by all means but please dont be offensive, and please respect the rights of an individual to have views and opinions - you dont have to agree with them, you just have to respect their right to have an opinion.

Ok so now that's out of the way, I'll start. I'm a bit of an anomaly really because I dont fall into any distinct political camp. I usually vote conservative, not so much because I'm pro tory, but more so that I'm anti labour! I agree with the principles of capitalism, everything we have is funded by industry - all the money that pays for public services such as schools and hospitals comes from taxes, which come from industry, so yes, it's capitalism over socialism for me, Socialism sounds fine in theory but it doesnt work in practice, I also think socialism is quite a dishonest system (for example lots of "socialists" are wealthy with big houses, cars etc, which goes against the principles of socialism).

That said, quite a lot of my views are very liberal. For example my views on employee rights, or homelessness. I abhor employers who expect their staff to give 110% in exchange for the bare minimum in return, especially those who make it clear to their staff that they are replaceable if they dont go way above and beyond the call of duty. Regarding homeless people I think the laws and provisions in this country are terrible, currently in the UK there are more vacant properties than there are people living homeless, how on earth can that be the case?!! I think far more needs to be done to protect these groups of people.

I could go on but I wont. That's just a brief introduction to my political views. So, where do you stand on politics? Remember, lets keep this clean and above all respectful! :hug:

 

[wonderwoman]

i think they're all liars, swarmy greasy pocket pinchers! When it comes to voting- i vote, but to whom i think is a worthy candiate not on pro tory or labour/ lib dems or anything! If the principles are right then yeah go for it!

I remember when bojo got the job as mayor in london, he did everything he said he would compared to ken- who still had made his mark. Im a swayer, the voting of a party doesnt affect me per se, its what will happen if i vote for them! I carry on as i normally would...

when that police commisioner election came about i voted again. What angers me are the ones that dont vote and moan- they've lost thier voice! In america there is a huge campaign on voting, but people over here dont want to get involved!

I feel as though if your a honest tax paying working person, you have a right to say whats going on with our country rather than ignoring the problems that are going on around you. xoxo

 

[l.a.m.x]

I don't know who to trust at all! I don't read into politics enough to know all the ins and outs, I don't know if being in the EU is helpful and living in Scotland I am unsure about the referendum.

I do strongly believe that we live in a broken Britain and the people who do the least get the most which is unfair.

I know so many people who don't vote ad moan which is ridiculous! xx

 

[Tomme]

I don't know what party I'm in favour with, I don't really understand politics or their terms, but I vote by who looks best groomed. I voted David Cameron because he was the youngest and I'm sick of old people running the place (I know many go in detail researching their votes and may not agree) I actually had a few second thoughts while in the booth voting because I didn't know if I liked their logo.

As for what is going on. My views are get out of the eu and close the open doors to immigration. Not ban all immigration, but pick and choose who can come by the skills we need, and a little like Australia, if you are older (over55 I believe) you have to have the penny's available to support yourself for the rest of your life as the government won't help you.

I don't feel taxes should be on so many things though. We pay tax when we buy something, that money is taxed as income for the business, its then handed to the employee and taxed again, the surplus goes into more stock which is taxed upon purchase, then tax is added on its retail price. The taxed money the employee earned then goes to purchase something, that item is taxed, that business is taxed and so on, so in effect, your £100 is worth penny's when its been taxed into non existence.

Education. Higher education shouldn't be so accessible, not because I'm mean, but because there are too many people getting degree's or qualifications and not enough demand for such qualifications in industry. Some people are destined to be lawyers, some carers, some street cleaners,
My point being is the street cleaner around my area doesn't need a diploma in electronics and psychology.

Foreign aid. I'm not saying its not nice to help, but why are we sending so much money to foreign countries when there are homeless and starving here? Rather than help places with food or medicine for their inflated population which the land can't provide for why not supply contraception so the population wasn't so high? And how did them countries survive until foreign aid? They clearly did, so they should wait until home is sorted before getting help or their government should help the people not my government (and yes I speak of it as if it were mine as it is, the queen asks the prime minister to form in her name and she works for us so in one its ours and so is the queen)

And my last one, I don't know if its politics or not, but royalty, why did the queen give so many countries their independence? If the uk still owned them or governed them then the eu wouldn't exist.

Xoxo

 

[Tomme]

I don't know who to trust at all! I don't read into politics enough to know all the ins and outs, I don't know if being in the EU is helpful and living in Scotland I am unsure about the referendum.

I do strongly believe that we live in a broken Britain and the people who do the least get the most which is unfair.

I know so many people who don't vote ad moan which is ridiculous! xx

I agree with the no work get a lot. I agreed with the job seeker allowance receivers working on the Olympics. Google "the new deal", its how Roosevelt sorted out the USA in one of its worst depressions ever, before jsa or the us equivalent existed, but his idea was to have the unemployed work and get paid by the government, enough to give them some sense of worth and to survive ( or watch Annie, it was set the same time) xoxo

 

[xxAmyxx]

I've never bothered voting because they're all useless, however if I did vote I would vote BNP...I think we should stop foreign aid, get out the EU and stop immigration, and make it like Australia where you only get in if you're needed x

 

[dandelionpoppy]

As with the religion thread I applaud the OP for opening a great debate!
Hope lots of Geeks are willing to contribute.

OK
I am pretty much left of centre.
I grew up in a Conservative voting family, but have always voted Labour. (And I have ALWAYS voted. I think I have a responsibility to do so.)

Why Labour? Tbh, originally, probably a rebellious attitude, followed by those glorious hippy days; it was fashionable......but it also fitted well with my still, essential, core view-point that no-one is better than anyone else, and that we have a collective responsibility for every other human being- and that very much includes far-flung lands.

I've always believed the best of others, and I truly believed that all politicians acted from their deeply-held views. It was a wake-up call when the expenses scandal was exposed! However, I was so impressed by the MP in a neighbouring area when he totally went beyond my expectations in supporting me in an issue. He was hardworking, put his money where his mouth was, and was tenacious. Well worth his salary!

Can I just say........find out what the parties' policies are, and vote when the time comes. You are a citizen, and have a responsibilty to do so!

 

[Dolly_6]

I don't know what party I'm in favour with, I don't really understand politics or their terms, but I vote by who looks best groomed. I voted David Cameron because he was the youngest and I'm sick of old people running the place (I know many go in detail researching their votes and may not agree) I actually had a few second thoughts while in the booth voting because I didn't know if I liked their logo.

As for what is going on. My views are get out of the eu and close the open doors to immigration. Not ban all immigration, but pick and choose who can come by the skills we need, and a little like Australia, if you are older (over55 I believe) you have to have the penny's available to support yourself for the rest of your life as the government won't help you.

I don't feel taxes should be on so many things though. We pay tax when we buy something, that money is taxed as income for the business, its then handed to the employee and taxed again, the surplus goes into more stock which is taxed upon purchase, then tax is added on its retail price. The taxed money the employee earned then goes to purchase something, that item is taxed, that business is taxed and so on, so in effect, your £100 is worth penny's when its been taxed into non existence.

Education. Higher education shouldn't be so accessible, not because I'm mean, but because there are too many people getting degree's or qualifications and not enough demand for such qualifications in industry. Some people are destined to be lawyers, some carers, some street cleaners,
My point being is the street cleaner around my area doesn't need a diploma in electronics and psychology.

Foreign aid. I'm not saying its not nice to help, but why are we sending so much money to foreign countries when there are homeless and starving here? Rather than help places with food or medicine for their inflated population which the land can't provide for why not supply contraception so the population wasn't so high? And how did them countries survive until foreign aid? They clearly did, so they should wait until home is sorted before getting help or their government should help the people not my government (and yes I speak of it as if it were mine as it is, the queen asks the prime minister to form in her name and she works for us so in one its ours and so is the queen)

And my last one, I don't know if its politics or not, but royalty, why did the queen give so many countries their independence? If the uk still owned them or governed them then the eu wouldn't exist.

Xoxo

Totally agree with all of this x

 

[ruberio]

i have always voted Labour and my OH has always been a staunch Scottish Nationalist ( he even has a Braveheart party planned for the night before the referendum), in recent years whilst not exactly flourishing, Scotland has faired well under a SNP led Scottish Parliament ( they fufilled the vast majority of their promises from their manifesto) and this lends considerable weight to the Independence Referendum. this has caused some heated debate at home, of course OH is all for independence while i'm not, i can't help but think that it would be detrimental for Scotland and the UK as a whole. it has really motivated me to find out more, this could be happening much sooner than we think and i would like to think that i was armed with as much unbiased information as i could be before i put my X in the box xxx

 

[mm29]

Very interesting

I think if Scotland get independence then it will be a disaster, but one thing that I keep asking myself,

what will happen to the British soldiers that are in a Scottish regiment?

Scotland will have a defence force not an army,

 

[CHarvey]

Very interesting

I think if Scotland get independence then it will be a disaster, but one thing that I keep asking myself,

what will happen to the British soldiers that are in a Scottish regiment?

Scotland will have a defence force not an army,

If that smarmy git Alex Salmond allowed the English to vote in the referendum then Scotland would inevitably win independence, after all more English want Scotland to be free then Scottish people want independence google it
The reason Mr Salmond has not allowed the English to vote is that he would then actually have to get a real political gender rather then relying on the Braveheart contingent
Sorry if this offends, it shouldn't as it has no reference to my personal beliefs lol but I grew up in Scotland and met this man at political rallies on several occasions and he was a Nasty piece of work.
Also if the Scott's are so keen on independence then why are they saying they would still require financial support from Westminster? Defeats tge object really x

 

[ruberio]

Very interesting

I think if Scotland get independence then it will be a disaster, but one thing that I keep asking myself,

what will happen to the British soldiers that are in a Scottish regiment?

Scotland will have a defence force not an army,

exactly! we already have lost regiments,naval bases etc here in recent years and its a sad ( and cynical ) thing to say but in this current climate it leaves Scotland and the UK vulnerable to attack.
the cost of living is already high enough all over but how much worse would it be if we were independent? we no longer have the industry or natural resources( not that we should be relient on fossil fuels etc) left to keep the cost of living down xxx

 

[ruberio]

If that smarmy git Alex Salmond allowed the English to vote in the referendum then Scotland would inevitably win independence, after all more English want Scotland to be free then Scottish people want independence google it
The reason Mr Salmond has not allowed the English to vote is that he would then actually have to get a real political gender rather then relying on the Braveheart contingent
Sorry if this offends, it shouldn't as it has no reference to my personal beliefs lol but I grew up in Scotland and met this man at political rallies on several occasions and he was a Nasty piece of work.
Also if the Scott's are so keen on independence then why are they saying they would still require financial support from Westminster? Defeats tge object really x

i wholeheartedly agree with you on this, i abhor Alex Salmond, we have a dundonian saying ' he gies mi erse the dry boak' lol. i've never had the dubious pleasure of his company, you poor thing!xxx

 

[CHarvey]

i wholeheartedly agree with you on this, i abhor Alex Salmond, we have a dundonian saying ' he gies mi erse the dry boak' lol. i've never had the dubious pleasure of his company, you poor thing!xxx

One of his minions physically assaulted my mum by scraping his show repeatedly down the back of her leg until she bled whilst at a political event and he refused to do anything about it

 

[CHarvey]

Shoe not show lol

 

[ruberio]

Shoe not show lol

good god thats awful!

 

[persianista]

I'm a natural born southern Tory. However, I'm disappointed in the current lot. They seem to have no ideologies, just tinkering around the edges.
I am starting to believe the theory that the country is run by shady financiers, and the government of the day just do their bidding.
Even as a Tory, some of their economic policy appears bonkers. I only have A level economics, and I feel I have more clue than mr Osborne.

 

['chelle]

wow there's some very different views out there!!

I agree with those of you who've said its not a good idea for Scotland to vote in favour of independence. We're stronger together and breaking the UK into small pieces will be of no benefit whatsoever to Sotland, or England for that matter. You've heard the saying "divide and conquer"? If Scotland votes for independence we will be doing the dividing, making it really easy for someone else to come along and do the conquering part!!

Here's some other subjects I have a view on:

Someone else mentioned they vote labour because she likes the principle that no one person is any better than another person. I completely agree with this principle too, but to be honest this is part of the reason I dont vote labour. The people with the most senior positions within the labour party are just as elite as the senior tories, they had the priviledged upbringings, went to elite schools, and live in exclusive areas, but they tell their followers that they're just like us. I find this very dishonest, and like I said in the OP I find that a lot of liberals/socialists are like this; there's lots of very wealthy people who preach liberalism/socialism, and this end of the political spectrum is very good at keeping the masses under control while a very elite few enjoy life at the top of the food chain... in my opinion :lol:

The current government is the best of a bad lot for me. Someone has already mentioned that all politicians are corrupt, and I agree. I think its a very particular type of person who chooses to enter a life of politics, and mostly they do it for their own personal gain. when you're in politics you're in a very influential position, you can make things happen that other people cant, it's a very profitable and lucrative business to be in. It's inevitable that a career like this is going to attract the sort of person who wants to profit by it. Having said that, there are some politicians who do it out of a genuine desire to help the community, but I think those politicians are in the minority, and they tend not to climb very far up the political ladder because they have integrity, and aren't prepared to screw anyone over to boost their own career. where I live we have two local councillors who are very genuine people and have served our community for years. They go well above and beyond the call of duty because they genuinely want to help the community. They are independent councillors now, but they used to be BNP members so naturally they got a lot of bad press, but whether you agree with their views or not they were excellent councillors who served their community well. They have left the BNP now, possibly to distance themselves from the bad press that goes hand in hand with membership to a party like that, but they are genuinely lovely people.

Someone else has mentioned that if they voted they would vote BNP. I can understand why people would say that, although I dont entirely agree. I agree with some BNP policies, but not all of them, they can deny it till they're blue in the face, but they are a racist party. We have become too soft in this country in an effort to be multi-cultural, for example the liberal policies on immigration, so many people have become frustrated with the way that immigrants and ethnic minorities seem to get preferrential treatment in the UK, so they turn to parties like the BNP. I agree that we need to toughen up a bit and put UK citizens first for a change, but voting for the BNP is a step too far for me. They judge people by the colour of their skin which is just allsorts of wrong, and they have negative views on homosexuality, I havent got time for that sort of bigotry.

This current government has got quite a bit right in my opinion. I know its not popular but the spending cutbacks are a good thing, we cant keep spending money we havent got, and we need to go through these hard times now, get our debts paid, then we can look forward to more prosperous times in the future. I also like what David Cameron said about ending the "something for nothing" culture. We need to raise a new generation of youth who know that if you want something you have to go out and earn it and not wait for the government to give you things that you're "entitled to". Having said that though, there's some things they haven't got right, not by a long shot!! For example, spending cuts are necessary, but how and where some of these cuts are being made makes the mind boggle. They have promised us that front line services wont be affected, but they have. The NHS is still top heavy with management pen pushers, but nurses, doctors, police officers etc are struggling to cope with the workload. Also, and I know lots of you wont agree with this, but I dont agree with making cuts from welfare benefits. They stopped child benefit payments for those on the higher rate of tax, and this I agree with, if you're on £40k a year you dont need an extra £20 a week from the taxpayer, but they are making changes to the way housing benefit is paid which, whilst it will work in some cases, it will be really unfair on lots of families who are struggling at the moment. For example, a family in receipt of housing benefit who have a disabled child may need more bedrooms that the authorities say they are entitled to because of the provisions needed to care for a disabled child, yet they will be penalised and will lose a percentage of their housing benefit under the new rules, because these rules are going to apply to all rather than each case being individually assessed. A friend pointed out a very pertinent fact recently; they're going to penalise struggling families on low incomes if they feel they are living in a house that is bigger than they need, yet Buckingham Palace has over 200 bedrooms. the upkeep od Buck house comes entirely out of the taxpayers pocket, so will they be asking the Queen to move into social housing? I doubt it!!

I dont agree with ATOS either. Having unqualified people make arbitrary decisions about whether disabled people should keep their benefits is wrong on so many levels. I do agree that there's so many people on the take, and that some sort of widespread assessment needs to be done so that we can identify the ones who could work but choose not to, and get them back in work, but the scheme we have now doesnt work.

Oh and another thing before I go - Work fit. Dont even get me started on how wrong that is!!!!

 

[lynn amber]

I'll keep it short ,

get out of the eu ,

stop the immigrants unless we need them ,

Stop giving money to other countrys when our own is on its arse, ( the world is massively over populated so instead of save the children how about not having kids you cant afford to feed ).

And the benefits system it a disaster ,speaking from personal experience the first time I would have claimed any benefit was when I had cancer in 2011 and was told that cancer is not classed as a long term illness so all you will get is esa the same as unemployed person which at the time was about 60 something pound a week ,but someone with an addiction will get more because its is long term (if that is not a piss take I don't know what is ) needless to say I told them where to put there benefit and worked 4 days a week whilst in hospital 2 days a week getting chemotherapy,

Also scottish put think we need to stick together a least until I pay off my mortgage lol :-D





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[JenBella]

I don't know what party I'm in favour with, I don't really understand politics or their terms, but I vote by who looks best groomed. I voted David Cameron because he was the youngest and I'm sick of old people running the place (I know many go in detail researching their votes and may not agree) I actually had a few second thoughts while in the booth voting because I didn't know if I liked their logo.

***Surely if you are taking time to vote a little thought should go into it, looking groomed or young or having a good logo is not a reason to choose a political party***

As for what is going on. My views are get out of the eu and close the open doors to immigration. Not ban all immigration, but pick and choose who can come by the skills we need, and a little like Australia, if you are older (over55 I believe) you have to have the penny's available to support yourself for the rest of your life as the government won't help you.

***Agree there does need to be controls on immigration in countries***

I don't feel taxes should be on so many things though. We pay tax when we buy something, that money is taxed as income for the business, its then handed to the employee and taxed again, the surplus goes into more stock which is taxed upon purchase, then tax is added on its retail price. The taxed money the employee earned then goes to purchase something, that item is taxed, that business is taxed and so on, so in effect, your £100 is worth penny's when its been taxed into non existence.

***Thats capitalism for ya!!***


Education. Higher education shouldn't be so accessible, not because I'm mean, but because there are too many people getting degree's or qualifications and not enough demand for such qualifications in industry. Some people are destined to be lawyers, some carers, some street cleaners,
My point being is the street cleaner around my area doesn't need a diploma in electronics and psychology.

***Access to education is a basic human right and nobody has the right to deny anyone that access. Nobody is Pre destined to anything and how could that even be decided....A street cleaner has as much right to have a degree in whatever they want. Denying education or access to it based on some sort of rules for what you might end up doing is dangerous and so backwards***

Foreign aid. I'm not saying its not nice to help, but why are we sending so much money to foreign countries when there are homeless and starving here? Rather than help places with food or medicine for their inflated population which the land can't provide for why not supply contraception so the population wasn't so high? And how did them countries survive until foreign aid? They clearly did, so they should wait until home is sorted before getting help or their government should help the people not my government (and yes I speak of it as if it were mine as it is, the queen asks the prime minister to form in her name and she works for us so in one its ours and so is the queen)

***i totally agree that there are huge problems with homelessness and poverty in Britain but if you do reading up on third world debt and why they can't get out of the cycle they are in, thanks to the interest on loans as well as so many other reasons the Western governments are keeping them in that economic climate well you might just have a different view. Education, medicine and help is needed for those people you know why, cos your governments are keeping them in the dirt. There is so much politics behind it all, save to say that US,British interests are best served by knowing when to intervene only when their is something in it for them. Corruption is a major issue and until the whole third world debt, access to medicine and contraception and education is given well then there will always be starving kids with not a chance in the world. While we all get fat off their grain***

And my last one, I don't know if its politics or not, but royalty, why did the queen give so many countries their independence? If the uk still owned them or governed them then the eu wouldn't exist.

***To be honest I am genuinely shocked by that statement. Are you actually saying that the countries that Britain "acquired" would be better off under their rule? Do you not think that those countries wanted independence? Do you have any knowledge of British history and the countries they colonised and what actually happened as part of that?
Xoxo

Tomme,

My responses are not meant in an antagonistic way at all so please don't take them as so, I genuinely am interested because you are the total opposite of me in your thinking and I am genuinely interested in how you think.
This thread is going really well so anyone reading my post responses please read them in the genuine friendly way they are meant.