Self employed with no insurance!

[Scully69]

take a deep breath first and write an account in chronological order of everything that's happened. My head darts all over the place when I'm angry or upset and I scrawl everything on a blank piece of paper on a mind map/brain thingy and the date or even 1,2,3 etc and then it can fit into your account easier. Are you a hair salon that offered beauty via this therapist or did you offer treatmentsat some point before hiring her. This will help your insurer understand your position.

Please, please go to your insurer. You pay them for instances like this! Don't worry about what you could or should have done or feel embarrassed, it seems that you are a very trusting person and had an unfortunate experience with someone who doesn't seem to take responsibility.

The solicitors are trying to recoup any costs that they or their client may incur. If the business she ran was in her own name and you are not registered at companies house with anything to do with that company name then they can't take anything from you, even if it was joe blogs beauty at your salon name they still, I don't think, can come after you, but again your insurers legal team will advise.

Your insurer will want to minimise any cost they may have to pay out so will help you in anyway they can.

Try not to worry too much even though its easier said than done, it's sad that this situation occurred and really do feel for you, I hope this helps. Sending hugs xx

Hi there.

Thanks for your message.

This has actually been going on for over a year!

The therapist was told everything regarding self-employment on her initial visit, her next visit and her practical visit. She promise she would go home and sort her insurance before starting. I knew she was fully qualified and she put all her certificates on the wall so no problem there. She was defo registered as self-employed as I have a copy of her HMRC self assessment that I had to show the solicitors.
I assumed she had her insurance as it wasn't mentioned again. I knew as a salon I had to display my public liability but I didn't know she had to. She did her work very professionally so I had no reason to doubt her however after the incident, which was no way anyone's fault but an unfortunate accident, she informed me of her lack of insurance. As a goodwill gesture I tried to see if I could get her covered on my salon insurance but I could not.
I sent several lengthy emails to my insurers and their solicitors and I had heard nothing since last year until this letter last week. Now I have 21 days to pay nearly £5,000 or they will take it to court where it will be a lot more to cover further costs and they will take assets from my home. They knew my address and that I co-own my house so I think the therapist told them which is slightly sneaky and trying to worm out of it!
I don't see how they can sue me when it was this self-employed therapist who they should be claiming against. It's not my fault she didn't get her insuance sorted when she was told at least 3 times and promised to get it. My only fault is that I trusted her empty promise but that doesn't make me liable.
I have been in touch with an advice line and they say the claim against me is incorrect so fingers crossed.
Thank you for listening and thanks for the hug x

 

[Chickafish]

I don't get why the solicitors are coming after you even after you've explained you are not technically liable for whatever treatment that was done- the self-employed therapist is. If they're still threatening to take you to court even after you've explained all this to them, then it's pretty clear they are just after money from whoever can pay out more. I think it's time you get legal representation. Gather all your paperwork, make yourself a timeline of the events so you can explain it clearly, and see what your legal representation can do for you. It just seems so petty and strange they're coming after you, personally. Most people would file suit against the place of business.

 

[sarahlou09]

Are they suing you or your business?? Are you a sole trader or a ltd company??

 

[Zooks]

What an awful situation to be in.

Was there a reason she did not want to sign a contract? I only ask as I have had to push push and push for a contract and still don't have one so I think it's strange she wouldn't sign one.

I take it you didn't check to see if your insurance would cover you to have a self employed therapist working from your property? They won't offer you any advice atall?

Have you had any contact with the therapist? Did she return to work?

Definitely seek legal representation and document everything.

 

[Scully69]

I don't get why the solicitors are coming after you even after you've explained you are not technically liable for whatever treatment that was done- the self-employed therapist is. If they're still threatening to take you to court even after you've explained all this to them, then it's pretty clear they are just after money from whoever can pay out more. I think it's time you get legal representation. Gather all your paperwork, make yourself a timeline of the events so you can explain it clearly, and see what your legal representation can do for you. It just seems so petty and strange they're coming after you, personally. Most people would file suit against the place of business.

I don't get why they have waited 15 months to lay blame at my door! If I was genuinely liable why not blame me from day one? Yes its my salon they are trying to blame now but I dont get why they are threatening to take assets from my home. Cheeky beggers :irked:

 

[Scully69]

What an awful situation to be in.

Was there a reason she did not want to sign a contract? I only ask as I have had to push push and push for a contract and still don't have one so I think it's strange she wouldn't sign one.

I take it you didn't check to see if your insurance would cover you to have a self employed therapist working from your property? They won't offer you any advice atall?

Have you had any contact with the therapist? Did she return to work?

Definitely seek legal representation and document everything.

She just said a verbal contract was binding enough and she didn't want to be tied down!
I can't have self employed insurance only employed insurance. I knew that from day one.
Im covered for my side of things and I dont think they have a claim to be honest but its still a worry. :sad:
She got her insurance sorted that weekend and came back to work but recently left to work from home.
She has since ceased trading so I think they are coming after me cause they know they have no chance getting money from her!

 

[Scully69]

Are they suing you or your business?? Are you a sole trader or a ltd company??

I am a sole trader as was she. They want to sue my business :cry: but are also threatening to take assets from my home. Its a joke :Scared:

 

[AcidPerm]

Obviously, I haven't read the letter from the solicitors, but it sounds like it's verging on unlawful harassment. Personally, I'd be inclined to forward a copy to the Law Society for their comments and let them know you've done this.

Also, it's relatively easy to find out your home address and ownership status these days, so the information has probably not come from the therapist.

 

[maisie0805]

Unfortunately, Despite it being her responsibility, If your going to have someone working within your establishment you should of really checked her certificates ( Insurance, Qualifications). For example i work for a care agency but wanted too see a client in my own time as she was after massage services, Although it was nothing to do with my manager they wanted too see my certificates first, because despite being self employed, I'm still representing there business in some way so needed to be sure everything was legit to prevent situations like these. I hope you get it sorted and do not have too pay out!

 

[anca14]

Don’t worry too much.
Is this a no win-no fee company?
If I was you I would call your insurance company again and ask for advice.
If no luck, lots of solicitor companies offer a 30 minutes free consultation.
I am sure you will be fine. xx

 

[Lynne Baker]

It's too easy for people to say don't worry, you'll be fine.
I speak from painful, life damaging experience when I offer the following advice.

You are a sole trader, not a limited company. In theory you personally (and therefore any assets you own, like your house) are liable for any judgement against you. This is why people have limited companies. Any liabilities are LIMITED to the company's assets.

Again, it's too easy for people to say you should have checked her insurance. Hindsight is 20/20 vision, and you'll never make that mistake again!

Before you do anything further, see a solicitor. It will cost you a not inconsiderable sum of money, and a lot of stress, but ultimately if you have someone who knows the Civil Procedure Rules inside and out, you stand a much better chance of coming out of this intact. As much as we all think we know what's right and wrong, the law might very well think differently.
Some of you will know that my company was taken to court last year by an erstwhile supplier. They didn't engage the services of a solicitor at all, and when we got to court the judge dismissed her claims telling her repeatedly that she should have taken professional legal advice. We spent several thousands of pounds to make this vexatious claim go away, and we both suffered pretty full on breakdowns as a result, but at least we won.

You may want to consider becoming a limited company too.

Talk to a solicitor soon, and I wish you lots of strength to get through this. Buy tissues in bulk!

 

[Scully69]

Unfortunately, Despite it being her responsibility, If your going to have someone working within your establishment you should of really checked her certificates ( Insurance, Qualifications). For example i work for a care agency but wanted too see a client in my own time as she was after massage services, Although it was nothing to do with my manager they wanted too see my certificates first, because despite being self employed, I'm still representing there business in some way so needed to be sure everything was legit to prevent situations like these. I hope you get it sorted and do not have too pay out!

Oh I make sure now I see certificates and insurance even though its their responsibility to make sure they have it to cover themselves. I dont want a repeat performance! I have been in touch with a solicitor and as the girl was self employed within my salon, she was a 'stand-alone' business and as such is solely responsible. Had she worked outside of the salon she wouldn't be representing the salon in any way as she was a separate business.
You say you work for a care agency and are self employed but you cant do both so I am a little confused. If you were truly self employed you wouldnt have a manager as you would be your own boss. A lot of places claim you are self employed to save them from paying your wage and tax and NI but they still think they can tell you what to do so I would look into that.

I think my life would be easier if I would just hurry up and win the lottery but Im not not holding my breath lol! x

 

[Scully69]

It's too easy for people to say don't worry, you'll be fine.
I speak from painful, life damaging experience when I offer the following advice.

You are a sole trader, not a limited company. In theory you personally (and therefore any assets you own, like your house) are liable for any judgement against you. This is why people have limited companies. Any liabilities are LIMITED to the company's assets.

Again, it's too easy for people to say you should have checked her insurance. Hindsight is 20/20 vision, and you'll never make that mistake again!

Before you do anything further, see a solicitor. It will cost you a not inconsiderable sum of money, and a lot of stress, but ultimately if you have someone who knows the Civil Procedure Rules inside and out, you stand a much better chance of coming out of this intact. As much as we all think we know what's right and wrong, the law might very well think differently.
Some of you will know that my company was taken to court last year by an erstwhile supplier. They didn't engage the services of a solicitor at all, and when we got to court the judge dismissed her claims telling her repeatedly that she should have taken professional legal advice. We spent several thousands of pounds to make this vexatious claim go away, and we both suffered pretty full on breakdowns as a result, but at least we won.

You may want to consider becoming a limited company too.

Talk to a solicitor soon, and I wish you lots of strength to get through this. Buy tissues in bulk!

Thank you for taking the time to write.

So sorry for what you went through but glad it went your way in the end.

I have since sought legal advice and was told that as this girl was self-employed then she is solely responsible for any claim. She was classed an an independent contractor and she was working 'within' the salon but as a completely separate business.

The solicitors laying blame are trying to say that as its my salon the customer entered into a contract with me and wasnt made aware the therapist was self employed. Its upon this basis they are making a claim.

Firstly she wasnt a salon customer. I am a tanning salon and she was booked in with the beauty therapist who at the time was running her own beauty business 'within' the salon and as such the customer entered into her contract with the therapist and not the salon as they were separate businesses. A customer walking through the door doesn't become contractually obliged to the premises or vice versa. She did however sign and enter into a contract with the beauty therapist and her separate business

Also, there is no legal requirement to inform a customer that the therapist is self-employed.

I have sent this to the solicitors and they have failed to respond so hopefully no news is good news!

My next contact will be to ask why they lay blame with her to start with then a whole 15 moths later are coming after me? Could it be that she is longer in business and therefore they arent likely to receive payment? Im not prepared to be a scapegoat and to be honest I think they are just trying it on...hopefully! Fingers crossed :irked: xx

 

[Scully69]

Well I still haven't heard back from the solicitors and it has been almost a month. I have sent 3 other emails and they have chosen to ignore me. This to me is not only completely rude and ignorant but also totally unprofessional!!!
As such, I am still in the dark as to what to do next though I do still have more ammo to throw at them when and if they decide to do me the courtesy of a reply...:evil:

 

[AcidPerm]

Well I still haven't heard back from the solicitors and it has been almost a month. I have sent 3 other emails and they have chosen to ignore me. This to me is not only completely rude and ignorant but also totally unprofessional!!!
As such, I am still in the dark as to what to do next though I do still have more ammo to throw at them when and if they decide to do me the courtesy of a reply...:evil:

Why would they bother getting back to you?

They know they have no case and so no-one will be paying their bill for letter writing...

 

[Scully69]

Why would they bother getting back to you?

They know they have no case and so no-one will be paying their bill for letter writing...

Oh dear, they have since been in touch and are still pursuing the claim against my salon. They are now saying that as the customer came through to the salon phone and the appointment made through the phone then the customer is the liability of the salon. I have looked into it and if the customer was told who the treatment was with, then that becomes a verbal contract not with the salon but between said therapist and customer. The contract then being cemented further when she came in and signed the customer card. The only 2 names on the card being therapist and customer...no mention of the salon. Therefore the contract was between therapist and customer. A written contract supersedes a verbal.
Basically the solicitors are now saying nobody else can take a call on behalf of the customer without becoming liable.
Also they claim its irrelevant who did the treatment! Thats just plain ludicrous!! The whole claim stems from the treatment so obviously its relevant who performed the treatment.
Now though they say I can make a counter claim to save it going to court.
I personally think they are trying it on but I just hope Im right x :|

 

[Lynne Baker]

What would the counter claim be for, and against whom?
You do have legal representation, don't you?

 

[Scully69]

What would the counter claim be for, and against whom?
You do have legal representation, don't you?

Oops I meant counter offer not counter claim sorry x

 

[Lynne Baker]

If you don't have legal representation you really should get some.
If this goes to a hearing believe me, judges take a very dim view of people who don't get a solicitor.
It will cost you money but it will cost you more if you don't.

 

[Chickafish]

If you don't have legal representation you really should get some.
If this goes to a hearing believe me, judges take a very dim view of people who don't get a solicitor.
It will cost you money but it will cost you more if you don't.

Strongly agree! Now is the time you get legal representation, and have THEM handle it for you. All you do is hand in whatever paperwork you have over to them and tell them everything, and let them tell you where you stand. I had to go to court, and I'm so glad I had legal representation. You may think in your head that you've got a solid case, but once you get in that court room, you might find everything you have could be irrelevant or thrown out due to lack of proof. Judges do not like their time wasted trying to sort out what can and can't be disputed/discussed in court. At least with legal representation, your whole defence would be all professionally put together for you, and someone with legal knowledge can do all the talking for you. This former client has obviously done so, cuz this whole time it's been the solicitors (not her) making contact with you. Might as well get on the legal bandwagon so all this can be settled legally ASAP and those solicitors won't have any more reasons to contact you.