Setting up time/clearing away time, paid or unpaid?

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I would happily pay £1.55 for my staff to be in, coats off, tea drunk, and ready to commence setting up at 8.45 for their first client at 9.
However they would fly in the door at 8.45, stick the kettle on, have a fag, one of them would stick the waxpots on while a junior was sent out to get breakfasts. I aint paying for that. Reality is always somewhat different to the theory.
Our rule is if you start clients at 9, you are in and ready to start by 9. If you wanna drink tea etc, get in earlier. We don't keep clients waiting.
Quite honestly, I wouldnt employ anyone who begrudged 15 minutes of time. My staff get free hair and beauty, they leave early when there are no clients, they get products at cost, free legal helplines, free training, paid far more than min wage, a cracking comission system,taken out twice a year, marketing backup, and an extremely well equipped salon. They aint treated bad.
If one of them said they wanted 5 mions extra pay to be in at 5 to 9 rather than 9, I would not employ such a person.


Absolutely make you right persianista.
Begrudged is exactly the word for some employees!!

I'm sure it must seem like salon owners take the p*ss out of employees sometimes but if any employee has ever once previously worked for themselves and had all the running costs of a salon and the stress of paying bills, stock, accounts, WAGES, making sure everything runs smoothly, making sure clients are pleased and happy with the services and products they receive by coming to us so that they are repeat clients, so that.......there is a job available and enough work available for said employees.......otherwise, as the saying goes, if you want a job done properly do it yourself - we would all be working as solo self employed beauty/hair therapists. Because I certainly wouldn't want to employ anyone who didn't want to be part of a team. I gave my main BT a full paid day off for Monday so she could have a long weekend cos she works so hard, and she runs up gives me a hug says thank you. I had also handed her her extra hour money for the month, as well as extra tips from me for all the wedding work we've done so far this month.I look after her because she doesn't expect to be paid by the minute if she has to stay 10 mins behind, because at the end of the day the salon is giving her a job that she loves and a nice environment to work in and clients that tip her, and benefits from me for the good job that she does, such as free treatments, tips over busy periods, cost price products...etc etc!! I even gave her a lift home so she wouldn't miss the last bus home.....Jesus Christ, maybe some of you have evil bosses but im certainly not one of them and I do not want my employees to feel 'exploited'!!
 
When I was nursing and wherever I was nursing ie. Zimbabwe, USA, South Africa, we were expected to be at work to take report/handover 15 minutes before our official start time from when we got paid. This was so that at the official start time we could start the job of actually caring for sick patients and so that the other shift of staff could leave on time.

If there was extra work to be done before and after official paid hours, we picked up the slack and did it. It is call being professional.

Now that I am in the beauty industry, I don't see it as any different in terms of setting up and being ready for a client and tidying up and clearing away. I work out my hourly rate for the actual service to my clients and I don't include the time it takes me to set up and tidy away etc..... I expect that I have to do that.

And as already said, setting up is not a big deal if everyone works as a team, tidies after themselves as they go along and keep on top of things.
 
God there are some shocking attitudes about.

No one is suggesting that staff should be paid an extra 15 mins for a job that takes 2 minutes. What I was saying was IF you need someone in 15 mins early to set up the room and workstation, and IF that work takes approx 15 mins then the therapist should be paid for this, because it is WORK. If you want someone in at 8.45 to turn the wax pots on but then they dont have any work until the first client turns up, I would suggest that work should be found for them to do until the first client arrives (cleaning, folding towels, whatever really), because they have made themselves available for work from a certain time, therefore should be paid from that time. What do you do inbetween clients? Stop paying your staff until the next client sits in the chair? Of course there are going to be times in the day when staff are not actively working on clients, but the staff are still at work and available to provide their services to the business so should be paid for their time that they are giving up for the business. Many of you have even said that you would not be amused if your therapist turned up at 9 on the dot, taking their coat off in front of the client, well if you dont want that then its not unreasonable to pay the therapist for sacrificing their time in order to turn up and be prepared for the first client at 9am. I AGREE that a simple 2 minute job such as taking your coat off and putting your bag away should be unpaid, but this discussion was started in relation to time taken to prepare the salon and set up the work area, and this task is WORK.

Some of you have made amusing comments about expecting the client to pay you for your travelling time, or paying yourself for late night sessions doing the company books or whatever, but I would point out that if you are a salon owner you are self employed and NMW law is not applicable. When you set up your own business you go into it with your eyes open, and accept that you will work long hours, sometimes for little pay, but that is what happens when you work for yourself, because the flip side of that coin is that when the business is doing well you have no upper limit to what you can earn, and you reap the benefits of the hard work you have put in. You put these long hours of hard and unpaid work in because it is YOUR business, and you cannot expect your staff who are on a fixed hourly rate and who, in this profession, are very often on low pay, to have the same level of commitment to a business which is not theirs.

Look. What it boils down to is that there are some salon owners who expect 8 hours of time and commitment out of their staff but only want to pay for 7 1/2. I realise that there is some give and take, and that girls get free treatments etc, but the give and take thing works both ways. Sometimes girls might go home early, but likewise sometimes girls work late if appointments run over etc, so you can hardly expect a daily task to be performed for free on this basis. I have to highlight that, if I had a member of staff who worked to the absolute rule of law I would take issue with this. I would expect staff to stay until the last client had been attended to even if that meant staying past hometime, but would be happy to let staff go early at quiet times. The important thing here is that I would make this absolutely clear at interview so that the staff were clear about what is expected of them. If then, I had staff who were insisting on going home bang on time I would take this up with them, but this is an entirely different issue to expecting them to provide daily unpaid work.

I too would not respond very well to a member of staff who was not a team player and didnt show commitment, but there are far too many employers who expect cheap labour and dress this up as "showing commitment to the job". You then end up with girls who are too frightened to stand up for their employment rights because they are passionate about the job they do and want to succeed. This does not give employers the right to take the p**s and expect something for nothing.

I worked in employment law for many years before I came into business for myself and have seen some shocking treatment of staff. Of course not all salon owners are like this, but actually, the fact that many salon owners seem to feel quite justified in asking for unpaid work just shows me how far behind the times this industry is in terms of acknowledging employment law. You have to remember that whether we like it or not, employment law applies to this industry. Its also worth remembering that from the moment an employee arrives and starts work, they are at work and have made their time and skills available to the business. This is what you are paying for.
 
Think I'm gonna butt out of this thread now. Arguing online about whether I should pay for my staff to put their coat away is really getting beyond laughable.
Has salon geek been infiltrated by left wing trade union agitators?

Go into your salons and ask your bosses to pay for you to get in at 5 to nine rather than 9 as someone online said you should! Hopefully the people on here shouting "it's the law" will put their money where their mouth is and give you a job!

I know I am a good employer, and I'm really not prepared to be slagged off on a forum for wannabes
 
God there are some shocking attitudes about.

No one is suggesting that staff should be paid an extra 15 mins for a job that takes 2 minutes. What I was saying was IF you need someone in 15 mins early to set up the room and workstation, and IF that work takes approx 15 mins then the therapist should be paid for this, because it is WORK. If you want someone in at 8.45 to turn the wax pots on but then they dont have any work until the first client turns up, I would suggest that work should be found for them to do until the first client arrives (cleaning, folding towels, whatever really), because they have made themselves available for work from a certain time, therefore should be paid from that time. What do you do inbetween clients? Stop paying your staff until the next client sits in the chair? Of course there are going to be times in the day when staff are not actively working on clients, but the staff are still at work and available to provide their services to the business so should be paid for their time that they are giving up for the business. Many of you have even said that you would not be amused if your therapist turned up at 9 on the dot, taking their coat off in front of the client, well if you dont want that then its not unreasonable to pay the therapist for sacrificing their time in order to turn up and be prepared for the first client at 9am. I AGREE that a simple 2 minute job such as taking your coat off and putting your bag away should be unpaid, but this discussion was started in relation to time taken to prepare the salon and set up the work area, and this task is WORK.

Some of you have made amusing comments about expecting the client to pay you for your travelling time, or paying yourself for late night sessions doing the company books or whatever, but I would point out that if you are a salon owner you are self employed and NMW law is not applicable. When you set up your own business you go into it with your eyes open, and accept that you will work long hours, sometimes for little pay, but that is what happens when you work for yourself, because the flip side of that coin is that when the business is doing well you have no upper limit to what you can earn, and you reap the benefits of the hard work you have put in. You put these long hours of hard and unpaid work in because it is YOUR business, and you cannot expect your staff who are on a fixed hourly rate and who, in this profession, are very often on low pay, to have the same level of commitment to a business which is not theirs.

Look. What it boils down to is that there are some salon owners who expect 8 hours of time and commitment out of their staff but only want to pay for 7 1/2. I realise that there is some give and take, and that girls get free treatments etc, but the give and take thing works both ways. Sometimes girls might go home early, but likewise sometimes girls work late if appointments run over etc, so you can hardly expect a daily task to be performed for free on this basis. I have to highlight that, if I had a member of staff who worked to the absolute rule of law I would take issue with this. I would expect staff to stay until the last client had been attended to even if that meant staying past hometime, but would be happy to let staff go early at quiet times. The important thing here is that I would make this absolutely clear at interview so that the staff were clear about what is expected of them. If then, I had staff who were insisting on going home bang on time I would take this up with them, but this is an entirely different issue to expecting them to provide daily unpaid work.

I too would not respond very well to a member of staff who was not a team player and didnt show commitment, but there are far too many employers who expect cheap labour and dress this up as "showing commitment to the job". You then end up with girls who are too frightened to stand up for their employment rights because they are passionate about the job they do and want to succeed. This does not give employers the right to take the p**s and expect something for nothing.

I worked in employment law for many years before I came into business for myself and have seen some shocking treatment of staff. Of course not all salon owners are like this, but actually, the fact that many salon owners seem to feel quite justified in asking for unpaid work just shows me how far behind the times this industry is in terms of acknowledging employment law. You have to remember that whether we like it or not, employment law applies to this industry. Its also worth remembering that from the moment an employee arrives and starts work, they are at work and have made their time and skills available to the business. This is what you are paying for.



Agree with everything you said here 'chelle!
We're all different, some business owners are fair, some are not.
Some employees are hard workers and some are not.
Finding that balance so that employees do not feel exploited and salon owners do not feel taken the p*ss by, is not always easy.staff come and go for many reasons, peoples personal lives sometimes enter into their work lives and can affect them in the workplace!! The list is endless!
 
God there are some shocking attitudes about.

No one is suggesting that staff should be paid an extra 15 mins for a job that takes 2 minutes. What I was saying was IF you need someone in 15 mins early to set up the room and workstation, and IF that work takes approx 15 mins then the therapist should be paid for this, because it is WORK. If you want someone in at 8.45 to turn the wax pots on but then they dont have any work until the first client turns up, I would suggest that work should be found for them to do until the first client arrives (cleaning, folding towels, whatever really), because they have made themselves available for work from a certain time, therefore should be paid from that time. What do you do inbetween clients? Stop paying your staff until the next client sits in the chair? Of course there are going to be times in the day when staff are not actively working on clients, but the staff are still at work and available to provide their services to the business so should be paid for their time that they are giving up for the business. Many of you have even said that you would not be amused if your therapist turned up at 9 on the dot, taking their coat off in front of the client, well if you dont want that then its not unreasonable to pay the therapist for sacrificing their time in order to turn up and be prepared for the first client at 9am. I AGREE that a simple 2 minute job such as taking your coat off and putting your bag away should be unpaid, but this discussion was started in relation to time taken to prepare the salon and set up the work area, and this task is WORK.

Some of you have made amusing comments about expecting the client to pay you for your travelling time, or paying yourself for late night sessions doing the company books or whatever, but I would point out that if you are a salon owner you are self employed and NMW law is not applicable. When you set up your own business you go into it with your eyes open, and accept that you will work long hours, sometimes for little pay, but that is what happens when you work for yourself, because the flip side of that coin is that when the business is doing well you have no upper limit to what you can earn, and you reap the benefits of the hard work you have put in. You put these long hours of hard and unpaid work in because it is YOUR business, and you cannot expect your staff who are on a fixed hourly rate and who, in this profession, are very often on low pay, to have the same level of commitment to a business which is not theirs.

Look. What it boils down to is that there are some salon owners who expect 8 hours of time and commitment out of their staff but only want to pay for 7 1/2. I realise that there is some give and take, and that girls get free treatments etc, but the give and take thing works both ways. Sometimes girls might go home early, but likewise sometimes girls work late if appointments run over etc, so you can hardly expect a daily task to be performed for free on this basis. I have to highlight that, if I had a member of staff who worked to the absolute rule of law I would take issue with this. I would expect staff to stay until the last client had been attended to even if that meant staying past hometime, but would be happy to let staff go early at quiet times. The important thing here is that I would make this absolutely clear at interview so that the staff were clear about what is expected of them. If then, I had staff who were insisting on going home bang on time I would take this up with them, but this is an entirely different issue to expecting them to provide daily unpaid work.

I too would not respond very well to a member of staff who was not a team player and didnt show commitment, but there are far too many employers who expect cheap labour and dress this up as "showing commitment to the job". You then end up with girls who are too frightened to stand up for their employment rights because they are passionate about the job they do and want to succeed. This does not give employers the right to take the p**s and expect something for nothing.

I worked in employment law for many years before I came into business for myself and have seen some shocking treatment of staff. Of course not all salon owners are like this, but actually, the fact that many salon owners seem to feel quite justified in asking for unpaid work just shows me how far behind the times this industry is in terms of acknowledging employment law. You have to remember that whether we like it or not, employment law applies to this industry. Its also worth remembering that from the moment an employee arrives and starts work, they are at work and have made their time and skills available to the business. This is what you are paying for.

Excellent post and I totally agree with all you've said!! :)
 
Think I'm gonna butt out of this thread now. Arguing online about whether I should pay for my staff to put their coat away is really getting beyond laughable.
Has salon geek been infiltrated by left wing trade union agitators?

Go into your salons and ask your bosses to pay for you to get in at 5 to nine rather than 9 as someone online said you should! Hopefully the people on here shouting "it's the law" will put their money where their mouth is and give you a job!

I know I am a good employer, and I'm really not prepared to be slagged off on a forum for wannabes

Urm.... I don't think that after 28 years in the trade that I'm a wannabe, maybe a hasbeen, but not a wannabe lol! :D
 
Think I'm gonna butt out of this thread now. Arguing online about whether I should pay for my staff to put their coat away is really getting beyond laughable.
Has salon geek been infiltrated by left wing trade union agitators?

Go into your salons and ask your bosses to pay for you to get in at 5 to nine rather than 9 as someone online said you should! Hopefully the people on here shouting "it's the law" will put their money where their mouth is and give you a job!

I know I am a good employer, and I'm really not prepared to be slagged off on a forum for wannabes

I employ my family and don't experience the problems being discussed.

Persianista employs lots of people and you have seen all the perks she offers her workers and doesn't appear to be experiencing the problems being discussed.

So far I haven't seen any salon owners on this thread who are trying to squeeze blood out of their therapists.

All employees have the right to resign if they are not happy, no one forces them to stay.

All employers have the right to set the terms of employment.

If an employee doesn't like the terms of employment, they can decline the job offer.

I'm off to find a thread that hasn't run out of steam lol.
 
If/when I have my own nail bar I would pay my staff from when I expect them to arrive. If they had their first client at 9 and needed 15 mins to set up and I expect them in at 8.45.

Re the whole wax pot situation. A local salon I went to for waxing opened at half 9. I asked for the first app at half 9 one day but they wouldn't give me it as their first waxing app was at 9.45 to give the wax time to heat. They booked nails or eyelashes or something else in in those slots therefor completely removing the whole coming in early/paying staff extra dilemma.
 
I employ my family and don't experience the problems being discussed.

Persianista employs lots of people and you have seen all the perks she offers her workers and doesn't appear to be experiencing the problems being discussed.

So far I haven't seen any salon owners on this thread who are trying to squeeze blood out of their therapists.

All employees have the right to resign if they are not happy, no one forces them to stay.

All employers have the right to set the terms of employment.

If an employee doesn't like the terms of employment, they can decline the job offer.

I'm off to find a thread that hasn't run out of steam lol.

And all employees have the right to be paid for the work they do :)

I don't think anyone on this thread has directed comments to individuals.

I have yet to see a contract that says an employee must work extra for no more pay :suprised:

And everyone is entitled to their own opinion :)
 
And all employees have the right to be paid for the work they do :)

I don't think anyone on this thread has directed comments to individuals.

I have yet to see a contract that says an employee must work extra for no more pay :suprised:

And everyone is entitled to their own opinion :)

Thank you.
 
The Tories announced plans today to cut Housing Benefit for the under 25's. Some tosh about making if fairer for those who work and don't receive benefits.

The majority of under 25's legitimately claim Housing Benefit because they are working full-time for minimum wage and sadly, their wages don't cover their spiralling rent costs. Factor in those who have child care commitments, and working an extra half an hour per day unpaid, seriously undermines the situation as they still have to pay child care costs. Private nurseries fine parents who don't collect their children on time. Understandable why they do, but a nightmare for any young mum trying to leave work 'on time'.

I have employed many youngsters in my previous career and they were not work shy but just wanted a chance to get on the career ladder. I remember several of my most hard working members of staff always started and left work 'on the dot' mainly because of child care commitments, but the quality of their work exceeded many of their colleagues.

It would be a shame if it was assumed that staff who work strictly to their hours are somehow less professional than those who can afford to get in early for the extra fag and cuppa. I know who I'd rather employ.

Quality over quantity any day.
 
This thread is getting way too serious.

And political.
 
I don't get what everyone is arguing about here. If start time is 9am then they have to be ready to start work then with coat etc off. You can't pay someone from 9am and tell them to come in at 8.45! It's as simple as that!
 
I don't get what everyone is arguing about here. If start time is 9am then they have to be ready to start work then with coat etc off. You can't pay someone from 9am and tell them to come in at 8.45! It's as simple as that!

I think the original question was forgotten a long time ago lol

I can't see why people are getting their knickers in a twist about therapists expecting to be paid for taking coats off etc as that was never what the post was about ?
 
Its a great shame when a debate cant take place without people taking it personally. None of my comments are directed at any individual who has contributed to this debate and I'm certainly not accusing anyone of being an unreasonable employer, I'm simply giving my opinion, and providing reasons to support my opinion. Can I also state for the third and final time that I am not suggesting that therapists be paid for taking their coat off!!!!

It is very regrettable that this debate has turned personal and as I've given my opinion now I too will bow out of this, but will say this in leaving:
to call other therapists "wannabees" just for giving their opinion? How professional is that? I thought this was a site for professionals, surely we should respect the fact that we all have different opinions, but support each others right to share those opinions without getting personal and disrespectful? I've been a nail professional for the past ten years (albeit with a break due to ill health for the last 2 years) and have an established client base with plans for expansion over the next few years. A wannabee I aint.
 
In all my previous jobs (non beauty and 1 salon job) i have always got there atleast 10-15 mins early which is my personal prefference. I dont like turning up and being hot and bothered from travelling or wet from walking in the rain and then starting in 2mins. Id rather hav just a few minutes to sort myself out, get things ready and cleaned and maybe a quick tea or drink before i am infront of the public. Ive never been paid for this but it has made my managers see me as more reliable, and even ended up with more paid overtime or better shifts. ;-)

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note
 
To be honest. If you have pride in what you do you want to be there early regardless of getting paid or not. As a therapist working for someone else I always made sure I was in 20 minutes early. I always wanted to make a good impression for my clients as well as my boss. I hate being on my back foot and not having time to prepare. I would never have dreamed of being paid for it!

As a salon owner I expect my staff to do the same unpaid. Clients can come in up to 15 minutes early and while I wouldn't expect a therapist to start that early I would not be impressed to see her running through the door after clients are already in the salon. I would never ask a girl to stay after hours to clean up though that should be done as you work through the day.
 
If its such a massive deal,then keep the salon clean and tidy throughout the day,then spend a couple minutes setting up after your last client for the next day!
If people keep on top of things throughout the day you'll prob be spending am extra 15minutes in the salon in total....surely you can't moan and expect to be paid for that?
If so maybe your not quite as passionate about your job as you should be?
Don't mean to sound harsh but It's not like its am extra hour and beginning and end of a day,its minutes and I'm sure these are made up for in free treatments and early finishes.
It's give and take!

Kayleigh x

Essential Bliss Beauty Therapy
 
God there are some shocking attitudes about.

No one is suggesting that staff should be paid an extra 15 mins for a job that takes 2 minutes. What I was saying was IF you need someone in 15 mins early to set up the room and workstation, and IF that work takes approx 15 mins then the therapist should be paid for this, because it is WORK. If you want someone in at 8.45 to turn the wax pots on but then they dont have any work until the first client turns up, I would suggest that work should be found for them to do until the first client arrives (cleaning, folding towels, whatever really), because they have made themselves available for work from a certain time, therefore should be paid from that time. What do you do inbetween clients? Stop paying your staff until the next client sits in the chair? Of course there are going to be times in the day when staff are not actively working on clients, but the staff are still at work and available to provide their services to the business so should be paid for their time that they are giving up for the business. Many of you have even said that you would not be amused if your therapist turned up at 9 on the dot, taking their coat off in front of the client, well if you dont want that then its not unreasonable to pay the therapist for sacrificing their time in order to turn up and be prepared for the first client at 9am. I AGREE that a simple 2 minute job such as taking your coat off and putting your bag away should be unpaid, but this discussion was started in relation to time taken to prepare the salon and set up the work area, and this task is WORK.

Some of you have made amusing comments about expecting the client to pay you for your travelling time, or paying yourself for late night sessions doing the company books or whatever, but I would point out that if you are a salon owner you are self employed and NMW law is not applicable. When you set up your own business you go into it with your eyes open, and accept that you will work long hours, sometimes for little pay, but that is what happens when you work for yourself, because the flip side of that coin is that when the business is doing well you have no upper limit to what you can earn, and you reap the benefits of the hard work you have put in. You put these long hours of hard and unpaid work in because it is YOUR business, and you cannot expect your staff who are on a fixed hourly rate and who, in this profession, are very often on low pay, to have the same level of commitment to a business which is not theirs.

Look. What it boils down to is that there are some salon owners who expect 8 hours of time and commitment out of their staff but only want to pay for 7 1/2. I realise that there is some give and take, and that girls get free treatments etc, but the give and take thing works both ways. Sometimes girls might go home early, but likewise sometimes girls work late if appointments run over etc, so you can hardly expect a daily task to be performed for free on this basis. I have to highlight that, if I had a member of staff who worked to the absolute rule of law I would take issue with this. I would expect staff to stay until the last client had been attended to even if that meant staying past hometime, but would be happy to let staff go early at quiet times. The important thing here is that I would make this absolutely clear at interview so that the staff were clear about what is expected of them. If then, I had staff who were insisting on going home bang on time I would take this up with them, but this is an entirely different issue to expecting them to provide daily unpaid work.

I too would not respond very well to a member of staff who was not a team player and didnt show commitment, but there are far too many employers who expect cheap labour and dress this up as "showing commitment to the job". You then end up with girls who are too frightened to stand up for their employment rights because they are passionate about the job they do and want to succeed. This does not give employers the right to take the p**s and expect something for nothing.

I worked in employment law for many years before I came into business for myself and have seen some shocking treatment of staff. Of course not all salon owners are like this, but actually, the fact that many salon owners seem to feel quite justified in asking for unpaid work just shows me how far behind the times this industry is in terms of acknowledging employment law. You have to remember that whether we like it or not, employment law applies to this industry. Its also worth remembering that from the moment an employee arrives and starts work, they are at work and have made their time and skills available to the business. This is what you are paying for.

Love this and i agree x

Sent from my GT-I9100 using SalonGeek
 

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