They just fell off ;)

[waxcetera]

So.... over the last couple of weeks, I've had my first few customers. I'm giving them the choice of gel or acrylic. First 2 clients, had a NNO gel, and a week later, I got reports of it had cracked and so they had 'piggled'!! it off! aah, ones a cleaner, the other a hairdresser, so there are the heat and chemical issues. Cleaner is my mother in law and she won't wear gloves.

My question, does anyone do a l&p NNO?

2nd question, I then went on to do 2 sets of white tips and gel overlays. 1st client, again a cleaner, said that one cracked and then later fell off, so again, (aaarrgghh) she picked them off herself, I got her back in and did a white tip and l&p overlay, fine since. The second white tip and gel overlay client, said the same happened, one cracked, she couldn't leave it alone, and instead of contacting me, decided to bite them off herself.

Now obviously you don't blend the white tips and I'm wondering if they are as strong as a tip thats blended? I'm using NSI Balance gels, the tips are millenium. I use the bonder, lock in layer, log/apex layer and building a good apex.

I can tell they bit the rest off, by the damage to the nail plate, but its put me off gel. I'm thinking of offering l&p unless they desperately want gel.

I did another client, last week, after all this, she cleans a few hours a week (yes I seem to have all the cleaners lol) and I suggested l&p. She had the white tips and clear l&p overlay and shes been fine.

I swear, I was soooo confident doing that l&p set, I was totally in the zone lol and they looked great. She loves them, and no probs after a week so far.

It's just knocked my confidence with the white tip and gel overlays, should I only offer them if pushed?

 

[mizzy_dizzy]

It sounds a bit like it might be the sructure if the nails if there cracking.
im not sure what you mean when you said :

"now obviously you don't blend the white tips and I'm wondering if they are as strong as a tip thats blended?"

im gussing that the smile area is already cut out ? you still need to remove the shine from them with your file though as gel wont stick so well to a shiny surface.

gel is far less pourus than L&P so probaly a better suite to someone who has her hands in cleaning products alot.

 

[brittone05]

I am in no way qualified to answer the question regarding gel vs l&p hun as I am not training in gel but I know that you can do an NNO using l&p.

I would perhaps weigh up the different behaviours of the 2 systems and then, instead of letting the client decide, you tell them which would be best suited to them according to their lifestyle, job etc. that way, they feel they are being given an informed decision and you can ultimately be the one who chooses the system

Cross posted with Mizzy lol

 

[waxcetera]

aah, sorry about that, yes, the white tips have the smile line in place already, hence not blending them. I take the shine off with a white block buffer, to help the gel adhere.

Both systems whether l&p or gel, I use glaze n go, uv top coat. Doh! just realised, posting that, I used it on the gel NNO too, and its for enhancements only, would that include NNO? Maybe they saw the glaze n go had cracked and thought the gel had, hence the nibbling began.

 

[Pamper&Polish]

It could be that your gel is not thick enough or your apex needs a bit of work, because gel is self levelling iit can be more tricky to "build" an apex! Don't give up with them, gel and l&p are so different in application it can just take a bit of time adjusting x x

 

[VHunter]

For both, over-exposure to water and chemicals can lead to product breakdown.

For your mother in law, there's no reason not to wear gloves. In fact, remind her of the rule "if you wouldn't put your face in it, don't put your hands in unprotected". The skin/nails of the hand are just as delicate and important as that skin on her face. Housecleaning products of any kind (including many of the ones touted as 'bio' or 'green' on the shelves) are very harsh on hands and nails.

I explain over-exposure to water causing breakdown, to clients as thus:
Natural nails are porous. Each time they are in water, they absorb it like a sponge and expand. This changes the shape of the natural nail from what it was at the application of the product. the product however does NOT change shape with the nail. Over time, the repeated expansion and contraction of the natural nail (repeated changing of shape) will weaken the adhesion of the product since it's not moving with it.
(I hold my two hands out, one flat on top of the other. The top is the product, the bottom is the nail. I move the fingers of the bottom hand 'wider' to simulate the expansion, while the top hand remains with fingers closed simulating product maintaining shape)

Unfortunately, for the hairdresser, unless she's dying hair; using gloves are impractical for washing hair. You can't "feel" if all of the colour/perm solution/shampoo is rinsed out with gloves on.

PERFECT prep is important and make absolutely sure the product is filed flush at the eponychium and sidewalls where there's no chance of a hair snagging at it and creating lift by pulling etc.

Each product has it's pros and cons:
L&P is harder and might suffer better the 'whacks' incurred while banging about housekeeping (but if the nails are short, this shouldn't be an issue)
Gel is non-porous, and might suffer less the exposure to chemicals.
Both may suffer discoloration due to the chemicals.

For the apex in the self levelling gel, if you search on here, you can find various methods for building apex in self levelling gel. (I layer it in sections)

Both the hairdresser and housekeeper need to appreciate that while enhancements are stronger than natural nails, they are not indestructible and require 'CARE'. Both clients should use cuticle oil more frequently than other clients.

hth's

 

[AmeliaR]

what gel are you using?
when i trained with CND for gel i was told NOT to use white tips as when you cure them the uv light cannot get throught the white tip and acts as a barrier so the gel doesnt cure proply leading to service breakdown.

if you used clear tips them blending them in then blended them in and applied white gel and created your own smile line then cure then apply your pink/clear gel making sure you build your apex, and see if that make any difference?

also another think it may be is your lamp are you using the same lamp as your gel? and are your curing it for the right amount of time? my friend once used cnd gel with her old uv lamp for sallys and she had the same problems as you cracking and peeling away from the tip also and it was because she ws not using the correct lamp?

its just trile ad error try and eliminate the things you are doing correct and youll be left with whats going wrong ( and also the client can also be blamed or picking and not looking after them)

and also i rent a room in a salon and i do all the hairdressers nails there gel NNO abd l+p NNO and both have know problems.
also insted of letting your cleint pick gel or l+p you need to access ther nails and see whats best 1 of my clients really want gel but her nails are too soft and i explain why and shes ok with tht and has l+p and i put a gel topcoat on to make them shiney and to keep her happy

Hope tht helps and you get it sorted!
sorry to rammble on let us know how you get on

 

[VHunter]

I personally have never had any problems with uv gel (4 different brands, but now an EZ Flow lover) & white tips.
I suppose it would depend on the lamp, the gel, and how it's applied.

 

[waxcetera]

thanks VHunter for that explanation, I'll use that as an example.

Before I did training and qualified, I use to use clear tips and blend them, then create my own smile line but during training they only used white tips and its so much easier to get the smile line.

I cure each layer for the 2mins. I'm currently using a generic 36w uv lamp. It's always been ok on my own (although I've never had enough free edge to use white tips on myself). I haven't got around to an NSI lamp because to be honest, I'm going to do a conversion later in the year and it might be NSI but it might be CND.

I'm using NSI Builder Gel and once I've built the apex I'm turning the hand upside down. I'm wondering if I'm putting enough gel over the actual tips.

I can't see what the problem was because they've bitten or picked the nails off

I've just bought a easier to use white from NSI, so maybe next time I'll use clear tips and build the smile line myself, I know the white tips are easier, but I need to practice the smile lines tbh.

 

[VHunter]

thanks VHunter for that explanation, I'll use that as an example.
You're welcome :green:

Before I did training and qualified, I use to use clear tips and blend them, then create my own smile line but during training they only used white tips and its so much easier to get the smile line.
Ohhh you used white gel over white tip? umm yeah, won't cure well lol but good for 'practice'

I cure each layer for the 2mins. I'm currently using a generic 36w uv lamp. It's always been ok on my own (although I've never had enough free edge to use white tips on myself). I haven't got around to an NSI lamp because to be honest, I'm going to do a conversion later in the year and it might be NSI but it might be CND.

I'm using NSI Builder Gel and once I've built the apex I'm turning the hand upside down. I'm wondering if I'm putting enough gel over the actual tips.

I can't see what the problem was because they've bitten or picked the nails off
AHHHH they're pickers and biters? Are you're other clients having problems? If no, I'll bet that THEY themselves are their own worst enemies.
I am a former biter myself. We are the HARDEST to 'train' in terms of nail care but we can learn. :lol: If other clients aren't having problems, then I'm pretty sure that they are the ones creating the damage and it's nothing you've done, and they're just trying to pass the buck and get free nails/repairs. They need to learn to accept that they have to be responsible. Repeated pressure between the teeth will create lift and other issues. ALSO most of it is unconcious. AND if they are biters, they are unaccustomed to length at the free edge and so must learn to use their hands differently when they grab at things and not as 'tools'. Biters, if given support and understanding and 'constructive' critique can reform and become your most loyal clients.

I've just bought a easier to use white from NSI, so maybe next time I'll use clear tips and build the smile line myself, I know the white tips are easier, but I need to practice the smile lines tbh.

:hug:

 

[waxcetera]

nope not white gel over white tip. I used to use clear tips, blend them in and use white gel to create the smile line. When using the white tips, I use a clear gel overlay.

I'll try a set of white tips but with thicker gel over the tip, maybe I'm making it too thin, in an attempt for it not to be thick! and also do another set of clear tips, with white gel for the smile line, see if either have probs.

Yeah, I do need to educate them, I think they kinda think they walk away and carry on as normal.

 

[busybee32]

Before I did training and qualified, I use to use clear tips and blend them, then create my own smile line but during training they only used white tips and its so much easier to get the smile line.

I cure each layer for the 2mins. I'm currently using a generic 36w uv lamp. It's always been ok on my own (although I've never had enough free edge to use white tips on myself). I haven't got around to an NSI lamp because to be honest, I'm going to do a conversion later in the year and it might be NSI but it might be CND.

I'm using NSI Builder Gel and once I've built the apex I'm turning the hand upside down. I'm wondering if I'm putting enough gel over the actual tips.

I've just bought a easier to use white from NSI, so maybe next time I'll use clear tips and build the smile line myself, I know the white tips are easier, but I need to practice the smile lines tbh.

So Although you have had generic gel training you havent actually been trained how to use NSI gel properly?
Maybe thats where the issue is, Using a brand that you havent had the correct training for and then experiencing problems is mainly due to the fact that you dont know how to apply it properly.
I would deffo book a conversion course hun to get the best out of the product.
Thats why I like CND you cannot purcchase their products without having been trained how to use them correctly.
NSI sell to any professional but you havent had hands on training so dont know how to get the best from the product, Also not using the lamp that is recomended for the product is also another reason why problems can occurr.
Sorry I couldnt be of more help.
Jen xx

 

[waxcetera]

Before my course I practiced on my nail trainer following the NSI online dvds, but yep, I see what you're saying.

I couldn't decide between CND which everyone raves about, or NSI, but tbh, I'll probably go with NSI because I just can't bring myself to train without having tried the product first. I might not like CND, I might prefer NSI, but I can't do a comparison, in fact I can't even compare prices.

I trained with millenium, but didn't like the products.

 

[mizzy_dizzy]

Before my course I practiced on my nail trainer following the NSI online dvds, but yep, I see what you're saying.

I couldn't decide between CND which everyone raves about, or NSI, but tbh, I'll probably go with NSI because I just can't bring myself to train without having tried the product first. I might not like CND, I might prefer NSI, but I can't do a comparison, in fact I can't even compare prices.

I trained with millenium, but didn't like the products.

Why don't you treet your self to a set of nails from a salon using CND that way you can truly road test it and have a treat .

 

[waxcetera]

Why don't you treet your self to a set of nails from a salon using CND that way you can truly road test it and have a treat .

I wouldn't get a feel for working with it though, just wearing it.

 

[busybee32]

Well I can honestly say hand on heart I love CND is soooooooooo much easier to use and work with than NSI. I used to be a NSI tech and then converted to CND and I havent looked back hun, The brisa gel is an amazing product, so eay to work with and create your apex with. I used to use nsi balance and always had problems with the consistency. Did my Brisa convesion and have never had any problems with it. My clients love it and best of all I have NEVER had any lifting with it, some clients have gone 7 to 12 weeks with no lifting or service breakdown, check my album for pics.
You can go so much further with CND too I love all their products from the Spa manicure and Spa pedicure to the gels and L&P and now there is Shellac for natural nails too.
Trust me hun you wont go wrong, you could always ask if they could send a sample so you can get a feel for it.
I was fortunate to win my Brisa conversion and kit in a comp a couple of years ago and I got my kit a few months before my course it was so hard for me to resist opening it and playing but I stayed strong.
Im sure you will go for whatever you feel is best for you.
Jen xxx

 

[waxcetera]

I must admit CND is tempting, but I've so much NSI stuff now, a lot unopened as of yet (I like to get things in at least duplicate, just in case I tried to see if I could get sample sizes but I can't until I do the conversion.

Well I can honestly say hand on heart I love CND is soooooooooo much easier to use and work with than NSI. I used to be a NSI tech and then converted to CND and I havent looked back hun, The brisa gel is an amazing product, so eay to work with and create your apex with. I used to use nsi balance and always had problems with the consistency. Did my Brisa convesion and have never had any problems with it. My clients love it and best of all I have NEVER had any lifting with it, some clients have gone 7 to 12 weeks with no lifting or service breakdown, check my album for pics.
You can go so much further with CND too I love all their products from the Spa manicure and Spa pedicure to the gels and L&P and now there is Shellac for natural nails too.
Trust me hun you wont go wrong, you could always ask if they could send a sample so you can get a feel for it.
I was fortunate to win my Brisa conversion and kit in a comp a couple of years ago and I got my kit a few months before my course it was so hard for me to resist opening it and playing but I stayed strong.
Im sure you will go for whatever you feel is best for you.
Jen xxx

 

[mizzy_dizzy]

I wouldn't get a feel for working with it though, just wearing it.

This is true , but you would see it being done and have first hand knowledge of the wearability of the product,
I personaly love brisa , and so do many more ,
maybe it might be worth you contacting your local CND educator and asking If you can do a play day type thing ,
but to behonest sometimes a leap of faith is requirerd , we don't always get to try before we buy but if you do all the resersh you can and read all the feed back you can and maybe get a set to road test it It's a good start,

the thing with cnd doing the convertion training b4 you buy isn't to teach you to do nails it is to teach you how to use there product to do nails, huge diffrence. ,

 

[sexynails]

when using white tips with gel they do not work as well as clear as the gel needs to be able to cure all the way throught.
with white tips etch the nail tip lightly so that the etched nail tip interlocks with the gel.

if i was you i would use clear tips and white gel to make your smile line making sure you have a good apex.

or if you can sculp use a sculpting gel with clear nail forms.

hope this helps.

i am a qualified nail tech/ beauty

 

[Pooh8bear]

It would help to etch both sides of the tip, where it touches the nail & where the gel is going to go.