Why are there so many 'messers' around?

[salonone]

The sad part is that the lack of sanitation happens almost eveywhere. Not just discount salons. I've been to many salons to do product demos and trust me... what I see is sad! Dusty drawers with dirty implements, sticky and dusty tables, reused towels, dirty buffers in UV sterilizes.
The regulations here are CLEAR. Only metal/non porous implements to be desinfected, all files, buffers, toe separators- GABAGE after each use.
Yet, I see used files at almost EACH salon (I would say 99%)
Why do salons do it? Because they can. Because clients still pay.

If clients got up from the chair seeing a dirty file and demanded a refund because the service was not up to their (high) standards... things would change quickly.

This is so true. I have gone to many places, exposing myself to the sub-standards of salons, spas and nail businesses checking out if they are worthy to be called my competition. What I experienced grossed me out at one place...loudly told her she was unsanitary and I walked out. She actually sneezed into her hand, rub the mucus on the back of her hand and then wanted to grab my hand to work. WTF?

I too have spent the last hour reading all the posts to this meaty topic. Because I do not feel I am at a level to offer nail services to paying customers I refrain. Because I cannot afford to purcase the Shellac & lamp, I refrain. I have tried the lesser/cheaper products and they are inferior. I order on-line the 'alternative' Minx. They are crap. I cannot afford to purchase the Minx system, so I refrain. Do my clients suffer...nope! They respect the fact that I will not try to bewilder them with products or techniques that I am not trained in. That is my moral standing.

I have five wax pots. Clients ask me why I have so many...because different hair/skin requires it. I pride myself in the cleanliness of my space, tools, equipment and even product containers. I drop a file on the floor, it goes in the trash, a towel goes in the laundry. I wash my hands, the client washes her's - in front of me! Don't care if you just went to the washroom and washed them, I need to see it. It is my health after all, first and foremost.

The same goes for training. I wish that there was an apprenticeship programme like before. My family is in construction. It was all apprenticeship and once a year at school for 6 weeks. After four years if you met the mark you moved up the scale. My son has been doing this for 12 years and he is now training as a Jr. Foreman. After all there is lot to learn from the foundation up - what if they cut corners building your house? All types of things can happen...walls crack, floors lift and move, water & bacteria gets in and mold grows. Sound familar?

I was taught to wipe/clean everything after every client. PERIOD. Even if you are behind, the client sees you cleaning. Growing up in a germphobic house and I also worked in a hospital lab - I've seen the results that can happen from inadequate standards. Did you know that veneral diesase can be transfered from a bath towel?

So kudos to you all who strive to educate us, keeping the standards high across the world. I just started to read Doug Schoon. Fabulous. I so enjoy learning the how and why of things. This information will make me better at what I do.

If you need to save money, use a less expensive table towel, buy in bulk, or just work a little bit more, and save up for it. Believe me it is hard at times, I read all about the Shellac and the fun everyone is having with it, but with time all things can be achieved.

 

[Zephy_Devil]

I'm new to the industry and couldnt agree more with Geeg! I HIGHLY intend on doing things the right way. Not offering what I cannot do and offering FULL systems! You do not gain a good reputaion, loyal clientele by not doing it the way mentioned in Geeg's orginal post.
I only hope that one day .. I can offer this kind of advice to someone else starting out fresh as Ive learnt a LOT from SG and always search for answers before posting.

Is it time the UK had some kind of formal licencing or regulations for Techs? I think so!

 

[Pooh8bear]

This is so true. I have gone to many places, exposing myself to the sub-standards of salons, spas and nail businesses checking out if they are worthy to be called my competition. What I experienced grossed me out at one place...loudly told her she was unsanitary and I walked out. She actually sneezed into her hand, rub the mucus on the back of her hand and then wanted to grab my hand to work. WTF?

I too have spent the last hour reading all the posts to this meaty topic. Because I do not feel I am at a level to offer nail services to paying customers I refrain. Because I cannot afford to purcase the Shellac & lamp, I refrain. I have tried the lesser/cheaper products and they are inferior. I order on-line the 'alternative' Minx. They are crap. I cannot afford to purchase the Minx system, so I refrain. Do my clients suffer...nope! They respect the fact that I will not try to bewilder them with products or techniques that I am not trained in. That is my moral standing.

I have five wax pots. Clients ask me why I have so many...because different hair/skin requires it. I pride myself in the cleanliness of my space, tools, equipment and even product containers. I drop a file on the floor, it goes in the trash, a towel goes in the laundry. I wash my hands, the client washes her's - in front of me! Don't care if you just went to the washroom and washed them, I need to see it. It is my health after all, first and foremost.

The same goes for training. I wish that there was an apprenticeship programme like before. My family is in construction. It was all apprenticeship and once a year at school for 6 weeks. After four years if you met the mark you moved up the scale. My son has been doing this for 12 years and he is now training as a Jr. Foreman. After all there is lot to learn from the foundation up - what if they cut corners building your house? All types of things can happen...walls crack, floors lift and move, water & bacteria gets in and mold grows. Sound familar?

I was taught to wipe/clean everything after every client. PERIOD. Even if you are behind, the client sees you cleaning. Growing up in a germphobic house and I also worked in a hospital lab - I've seen the results that can happen from inadequate standards. Did you know that veneral diesase can be transfered from a bath towel?

So kudos to you all who strive to educate us, keeping the standards high across the world. I just started to read Doug Schoon. Fabulous. I so enjoy learning the how and why of things. This information will make me better at what I do.

If you need to save money, use a less expensive table towel, buy in bulk, or just work a little bit more, and save up for it. Believe me it is hard at times, I read all about the Shellac and the fun everyone is having with it, but with time all things can be achieved.

Salonone- very well put.x

 

[cinthea]

Just a thought......when a distributor tries to convince a tech that something like 'any old lamp' can be used for eg Shellac, shouldn't we be notifying the company, eg CND? I know if I was (eg) CND I wouldn't want my distributors mis-representing or mis-selling or mis-informing customers in this way, as this can be what leads to techs and customers believing we are being ripped off.

At least if the company knows their distributors aren't selling in the way they should be, they can either re-educate said distributors or cease working with them and find distributors who WILL upsell systems in the way they were invented to be used.

Sorry if this causes another controversy, but makes sense to me

That'a a great point! Our industry has so many battles and obstacles we DON'T need the misinformation starting right with the disributor and only the manufacturer has the ability to threaten that if their product line isn't accurately represented that they will pull it from their stores, which are usually chains.
Some of these stores are probably how flea-bay gets its crap.I've actually lost 1 client who now does her own with product from fleabay, light included. She has no course and in Nova Scotia Canada, you need a license to do nails. If I reported her to my licensing committee I doubt theyd do anything, but every year I"d better hurry and pay my dues...grr.
I started with LCN training. Then I got Brisa training. Then Akzentz training informally from a tech who'd had their training. Its all I can get around here. But I check this forum and mouse around online to learn what I can. It made 10 years in the business April 1st/11. Yay me! Still love learning and doing nails.
Everyone around me does McNails(fast, assembly line, gimme your money and get out nails)but I had a different instructor. Again, yay me! Cuz she taught us hygiene and encouraged integrity in our practices. You get it or you don't. With all the gallopping-who-knows-what diseases out there these days, I'm so grateful I had MY instructor! There are new nail techs being spit out every few months here. They're saturating the industry with idiots who dont care because their husbands pay the bills and its shopping/shoe money or the shop pays their product but they think its cool and easy to have their own business. Clients want sets for $35-$55 max because thats what these new Mickey Mouse techs charge.grr. I charge $66 per new set, $36 for fills and I'm worth it.
One last thing, who doesn't know that an improperly cured enhancement will fail?
Take care everyone and be well! OH and if you dont have a vent to remove dust and fumes, try to get one asap. Important to your breathing but the courses and even distributors don't stress that.

 

[Moby]

Well this was super interesting! (If not a little tiring to read! Haha)

I think cost and education are actually very big issues in this (except for cleanliness which is pure laziness!)

Well if it's still a 'well-known' company which offers very affordable training and products compared to someone like CND - then tbh, if people really want to do nails but can't really afford it then it is where the problems start. You do some basic training and funnily enough, you get what you pay for! You are not always told that you will most definately need more training or will have to really practice, practice, practice before your first paying client! Everyones heard it 'do a nail technician course in 1 day and be earning the next!' What are these companies teaching people then!?!? Isn't this where some of the problems start??

I did a CND course and then did a beauty course at college a few years later which offered extension as part of the curriculems. I was asked if I could show CND's products for a day and actually had a nose at the year planner and so much of it was absolute rubbish! And from a college!! I was so shocked! I asked the teacher about this and she just agreed with me and said that's what's been set out for the college and they have to follow it!

Some people will blatantly try anything on the cheap - not just because they are cheap becuase they really believe it works. My old boss met me awhile ago before I got my minx. She told me how great it was but told me if I get it, not to get the lamp because using a hair dryer is fine!! :Scared: I was like 'nooooo!' don't do that! But she didn't listen - but has never had problems with her nails - hence why people pass along this 'knowledge' and 'tid bits' of advice - because they have found it works for them. (I got the lamp btw! )

And with the economic climate and those cheapo salons, I can imagine how many nails techs have struggled to keep their businesses going, I don't think it's right to switch to cheapo products to save a few £££ & mix and match whatever because who suffers? The client - and then you because you could potentially lose them with product breakdown! I understand that some of these techs will definately know better - whereas others just don't give a ****.

I was really lucky I used to work from my mums house in a side building. I never paid any rent and my mummy always made me lunch! :biggrin: But with this whole economy going potty - I lost alot of good regular clients simply because they needed to save that £20 per month. I always stuck to my products because I believed in them but I was very close to closing the business and going back to admin:Scared: becuase I just wasn't earning enough to live (even rent free and mummys help!) let alone live with small luxuries!

I'm sure I had more points but it's late and i'm tired and can't think anymore

 

[WaxGirl]

Geeg - I guess I am one of the 'two' dissenting posters then!

I simply gave my view and answered you question. Personally I embrace difference of opinion and have found this thread interesting to read.

I agree with the essence of it - that we should offer an honest professional hygenic service.

However I stand by what I said originally that I think a little creativity & experimentation - obviously keeping it safe - is a positive thing.

In fact in the last edition of Scratch magazine I was reading an article that was stating the very same thing and encouraged nail techs to be creative and experimental and regarded it as positive to their career development.

 

[geeg]

Geeg - I guess I am one of the 'two' dissenting posters then!

I simply gave my view and answered you question. Personally I embrace difference of opinion and have found this thread interesting to read.

I agree with the essence of it - that we should offer an honest professional hygenic service.

However I stand by what I said originally that I think a little creativity & experimentation - obviously keeping it safe - is a positive thing.

In fact in the last edition of Scratch magazine I was reading an article that was stating the very same thing and encouraged nail techs to be creative and experimental and regarded it as positive to their career development.

Lovely lady .. and I'm sure you are! :hug:

Not sure why you are back on the same old horse. You called me harsh and said there were plenty of pros around giving good service. My post was not about good service, but the ´messers´that are giving bad service; the ´messers´who are not giving clients the service they are trusting the technicians to give, the 'messers' who come here to complain that they are having problems with products, only to find out that they are 'messing' with the system as the manufacturer has told them to use it ... it defies belief really. Our nail industry is full of those who think they know better and are just plain 'messers'. I stand by that and, with respect, your point about creativity has nothing to do with this thread.

Does anyone believe that I have never been Creative :biggrin: .. that I have never created new 'ways' and new techniques for working .. even new prodicts? That is not the same as 'messing' with a system ... mixing/matching using 10 different brands at once etc. Does anyone believe my creativity has been stifled because I have followed the manufacturer's instructions and the rules they have set? I don't think so.

Messing with the chemistry of any product that has had millions pumped into its development as a system, by scientists who know what they are doing , is just plain stupid and arrogant and those 'messers' deserve all the problems they inevitably get by doing so.

The 'messers' are not doing our industry any favours by being around and we could truly do without them. Everyone knows that I salute the pros out there and that there are plenty of them, thank goodness, but I also believe they are in the minority.

 

[sarahrose14]

I think the so called "trainers" have a lot to answer for. I did my VTCT in nail tech with my local college as I thought it was a reputable college and I would learn everything I needed to succeed in the industry with them. Oh how wrong I was we were supposed to do 4 hours a week in college for 6 months and do case studies at home. We were not told how to sterilise our tools we were told surgical spirit would do fine autoclaves or even barbicide were never mentioned. We were given no advice on what system to buy or what size brush to use, we were told we could buy everything we needed off eBay! I specifically remember being told that we could mix and match systems with no problem!!! Our teacher always left the lesson an hour and a half early so anything I learnt theory wise I learnt myself at home. At the end of the course we had to send off pictures of our case studies some girls nails were so bad our tutor told them to send copies of other people's work off so they didn't fail!
I do not do nails because I know I am not trained well enough but some of the other students are now working mobile and no doubt doing an awful job of them.

I am now doing my nvq 3 in beauty therapy and even though I'm technically qualified in nail tech, I will be doing my nvq2 in nail tech when I finish. I wasted 6 months and a lot of money on the wrong kit all because of a bad tutor!

Sorry for the essay xx

 

[Hands_Only]

I find that ladies who get their nails done tend to go for the cheaper salon work. I remember having 2 ladies who both used the nss salon before and wondered why I didnt use an electric file, why it took me longer to do their nails and didnt know what all the "extra stuff" (hand/nail sanitizer n cuticle work) I was doing was for as they had never had this. They also wondered why I was using white acrylic on their tips instead of. ........ wait for it....... spraying it on!!!!! I have learned alot of things on this site that I wasnt taught when I first started and thats why I have been looking into becoming a teacher as I want to educate folk the right way.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App

 

[lauren84]

talking as a complete newbie geek! so just a newbie opinion!
I have to agree with geeg. I have just done my first training day with the wonderful Kelly @ leeds CND and am totally converted by the products!!!

I've been having my nails done for years and have completely stopped having acrylics, gels, silk wraps you name it as I've paid over ££££'s for them to literally fall off in less than a week. I keep explaining this to technicians but end up with the same result, from the training I now understand a massive part is really understanding clients nails condition etc and treating accordingly and customising the service/product choice to suit oppose to a one size fits all and mixing and matching products.
And I didn't go to the same salon each time so I can't put it down to one shoddy job!!!

I really believe in following a system of products as they were designed to work together and results show they do! and I think it looks so professional to see a tech using all one brand, it does cost but when its sold as a luxury service where the products last, clients will keep coming back.

x

 

[Mrs Geek]

talking as a complete newbie geek! so just a newbie opinion!
I have to agree with geeg. I have just done my first training day with the wonderful Kelly @ leeds CND and am totally converted by the products!!!

I've been having my nails done for years and have completely stopped having acrylics, gels, silk wraps you name it as I've paid over ££££'s for them to literally fall off in less than a week. I keep explaining this to technicians but end up with the same result, from the training I now understand a massive part is really understanding clients nails condition etc and treating accordingly and customising the service/product choice to suit oppose to a one size fits all and mixing and matching products.
And I didn't go to the same salon each time so I can't put it down to one shoddy job!!!

I really believe in following a system of products as they were designed to work together and results show they do! and I think it looks so professional to see a tech using all one brand, it does cost but when its sold as a luxury service where the products last, clients will keep coming back.

x

...and THIS is our future!!! Well done Lauren!!!

 

[fena]

Originally Posted by lauren84
talking as a complete newbie geek! so just a newbie opinion!
I have to agree with geeg. I have just done my first training day with the wonderful Kelly @ leeds CND and am totally converted by the products!!!

I've been having my nails done for years and have completely stopped having acrylics, gels, silk wraps you name it as I've paid over ££££'s for them to literally fall off in less than a week. I keep explaining this to technicians but end up with the same result, from the training I now understand a massive part is really understanding clients nails condition etc and treating accordingly and customising the service/product choice to suit oppose to a one size fits all and mixing and matching products.
And I didn't go to the same salon each time so I can't put it down to one shoddy job!!!

I really believe in following a system of products as they were designed to work together and results show they do! and I think it looks so professional to see a tech using all one brand, it does cost but when its sold as a luxury service where the products last, clients will keep coming back.

Get Doug Schoon Nail Structure & Product Chemistry,Marian Newman's The Complete Nail Technician 3rd edition now and Gigi Rouse Nailclass. You will find all 3 of these books invaluble (sp) esp when first starting out.

 

[Paul Bryson]

When we tell people, "Don't mix systems!", I get the feeling that a lot of folks simply don't believe us. They think, "Oh, they just want us to buy all of **their** stuff, it doesn't really matter". However, allow me to offer three reasons not to:

(1) Performance: This is a tough sell because, SOMETIMES people mix systems and it really does work well. Indeed, SOMETIMES they like the result better! There's no point in pretending this isn't the case. However, if they're not tested together you just don't know what to expect. No doubt some of you will object, "I've used basecoat X and nail polish Y together for years, I know what I'm doing, and it works! It's tested by ME!" Yes, granted. However, keep reading:

(2) Legal Liability: If you are not using a product according to manufacturer's directions, it puts you in a weaker legal position if you are ever sued. If you mix company A powder and company B liquid, neither company can guarantee the performance or safety of their product. Even if they are chemically very similar, the test of the mixed system simply was never done before you tried it (at least, not in anyone's formal lab records). This could cause the outcome of a lawsuit to go against you. The average juror or judge knows nothing about the industry, and will think,"Well... she didn't follow directions... it's her fault", even if it really isn't.

(3) Safety: Again, powder/liquid systems, gel systems, gel/UV lamp combinations, etc, are tested to work together. So when you mix sytems, ust because it visually appears to cure well doesn't mean it's fully cured. And leaching of uncured monomer from an acrylic or gel nail, can cause slow allergenic sensitization which will eventually cost you clients. In particular, the practice of mixing clear UV gel with nail polish, is exceptionally unsafe, since the polish pigments will block the UV curing agents leading to undercure. (Colored gels or hybrids are different; they are manufactured with the right amount and type of UV cure agent(s) to work around the color. But don't try doing it yourself.)

Hope this helps.

 

[geeg]

When we tell people, "Don't mix systems!", I get the feeling that a lot of folks simply don't believe us. They think, "Oh, they just want us to buy all of **their** stuff, it doesn't really matter". However, allow me to offer three reasons not to:

(1) Performance: This is a tough sell because, SOMETIMES people mix systems and it really does work well. Indeed, SOMETIMES they like the result better! There's no point in pretending this isn't the case. However, if they're not tested together you just don't know what to expect. No doubt some of you will object, "I've used basecoat X and nail polish Y together for years, I know what I'm doing, and it works! It's tested by ME!" Yes, granted. However, keep reading:

(2) Legal Liability: If you are not using a product according to manufacturer's directions, it puts you in a weaker legal position if you are ever sued. If you mix company A powder and company B liquid, neither company can guarantee the performance or safety of their product. Even if they are chemically very similar, the test of the mixed system simply was never done before you tried it (at least, not in anyone's formal lab records). This could cause the outcome of a lawsuit to go against you. The average juror or judge knows nothing about the industry, and will think,"Well... she didn't follow directions... it's her fault", even if it really isn't.

(3) Safety: Again, powder/liquid systems, gel systems, gel/UV lamp combinations, etc, are tested to work together. So when you mix sytems, ust because it visually appears to cure well doesn't mean it's fully cured. And leaching of uncured monomer from an acrylic or gel nail, can cause slow allergenic sensitization which will eventually cost you clients. In particular, the practice of mixing clear UV gel with nail polish, is exceptionally unsafe, since the polish pigments will block the UV curing agents leading to undercure. (Colored gels or hybrids are different; they are manufactured with the right amount and type of UV cure agent(s) to work around the color. But don't try doing it yourself.)

Hope this helps.

Paul, thank you so much for adding another voice of authority and reason to my thread.

I hope this thread makes a difference to some and that they stop 'messing about' as we say in the UK and start acting in a smart way. Sadly, some will always do what they do convinced that they of course know better ... It always takes an accident or a law suit before these ones ever begin to have their minds changed.

Funnily enough there are more than a few mixing polish and gel convinced they are doing fine n dandy thank you.. Even a company that advocates doing this and even though warned against it, technicians say ... Well the company says it's alright so it must be alright ... Right? So why is it, that when the company says it's wrong and please don't mess with our system, THEY are not to be trusted because they only want you to buy "their" stuff?

It doesn't make any sense to me. It seems that 'what the company says' is trusted only if it suits the technician but what the 'company says' is suspect if it does not. I wish more folks would put their 'thinking caps' on and start using the intelligence god gave them.

Thanks again for your esteemed company here on the site, Paul, and for your help and guidance.

 

[lauren84]

Thanks for the advice, I have been looking at books recently but didn't know which to buy! really appreciate your post x

 

[izzynails]

i totally agree with geeg!
i think there should be a better standard set to nails. people come to me with nails done elsewhere and everytime im shocked. i think its wrong that you can do some teaching course and suddenly be able to teach nails..
i never have problems with lifting or nails coming off, my clients can all go weeks without a single bit of lifting and all that i do is spend an extra couple of minutes perfecting them. too many people dont take it seriously or have a passion for them and therefore are lazy with them.. it just takes that extra bit of care and practise and you will not run into these problems or complaints ATALL..

 

[Paul Bryson]

....there are more than a few mixing polish and gel convinced they are doing fine n dandy thank you...

Yes, we are aware of this. It's a losing battle, I'm afraid. They tried it and "got away with it" -- so far -- and so they assume it's okay.

I suppose people think that OPI is “dissing” this technique to protect our sales of colored gels. However, the truth is, to the best of our knowledge, OPI folks in the U.K. were the first people in the world to come up with the idea. If it were safe, we'd have given them the green light, and OPI would have been the first to market with this concept. Unfortunately, we can't endorse it.

In a way, it’s a shame, because it’s such an elegant and artistically clever idea, and the people who thought of it are to be admired for that. Also, mixing gel and polish is a lot less work than the process of inventing and manufacturing colored gels, so it would have saved us a lot of trouble, too.

 

[HannahCoral]

I did a quick course to learn the basics of nail extensions whilst I was pregnant, always with the intention to get further (proper) training with CND later on, I just wanted a starting point so that I could practice whilst on maternity. I am due to start working again in September and after reading this I have now contacted Sweet Squared to get some info on their next training course near me! So I just wanted to say thank you Geeg for this post, as I was starting to believe the course I have done was enough for now, but this has reminded me that I don't want to be just an OKAY nail tech, I want to be a brilliant one!

 

[Sam81]

I'm also new to the nail industry, but I was taught to use a system as a whole (I lived with Marian Newman's The Complete Nail Technician for months!) as they were chemically compatible, it's only since coming on here that the idea of mixing systems has ever entered my head. I wouldn't do it as I still consider myself a novice and I wouldn't want anything to compromise my work, at least then I know it's not the product that's going wrong, just something I need to perfect with my technique!

 

[Redduck]

I have to say I nearly dismissed shellac due to the number of friends who told me it chipped, didn't last the fortnight, was hard to remove etc. I then did more research and found this site and it seemed the majority of problems were caused by not using the whole system. When I asked friends it turned out that they hadn't had done half of what is recommended for shellac.

This isn't just a problem with nail treatments. The number of times people, often other therapists, ask me why I do my CPD when i'm already qualified in massage and reflexology is unbelievable. I get told i'm wasting time and money by doing it. I don't think so. Without it I wouldn't be where I am now, I wouldn't be booked up several months in advance, I wouldn't be working with clients having chemotherapy and clients at the end stage of life which is a privilege. If we want to be the best we can then we have to keep pushing ourselves to keep learning from the experts.

Ooops, sorry, got started on another of my pet hates!