Concerned about fumes

[concerned]

Hi,

I have registered to this forum to seek advice from professionals in the nail industry.

I live above a nail salon and am highly concerned about the fumes, the main reason being that my 2 young children (one a baby) occupy a room directly above the nail salon.

The situation is as follows, the nail salon operates with a minimum of 3 staff and a maximum of 5, this is in an aprox 6x3meter premisis.For ventilation a small window is sometimes opened, sometimes the window is left closed all day.

I am finding that information regarding recommended ventilation is hard to come by, I have been in touch with Enviromental Health a while ago, this was not a route I wanted to go down but after 3 requests to the owner to do something about the fumes failed to achieve anything I felt I had to.I ended up telling the EH not to proceed after an initial enqiry as the owner assured me (one year ago) that they were going to fit extraction of some sort, this has not been done.
I cannot smell fumes as strong as I once could, so I am wondering if something is being done to mask the smell.

The actual smell is not what concerns me it is the possible dangers of the chemicals used, althought I admit I am fairly ignorant to the hard facts, I do know that a lot of nail technicians use face masks.

Is a small open window considered adequate ventilation ?

The main reason for this post is that I can discuss your informed opinions with the owner rather than getting the EH involved.

I would also appreciate links to relevant information.
Thanks for reading

 

[Lellipop]

Read through the following post it may help.
http://www.thenailgeek.com/showthread.php?t=5843&highlight=ventilation

 

[concerned]

Thank you lell for the link, does anyone else have anything to add?
Mayby if I asked any of you with children in your family, would you be happy with them living 24/7 in your work enviroment with no ventilation ?

Please offer what advice you can, I post out of genuine concern for my childrens safety and hoped my post would have attracted more replies

 

[scattyfox]

You probably will receive more replies as time goes on but most people manage to look but dont post until the weekend when theya hve more time, but this week is a big wek in the nail calendar as we ahve one of the big comeptitions and nail shows so it maybe that everyone is occupied with this.

As to your concern's i think we all understand what you are saying in regards to your children and their safety. unfortunately unless we know what products the nails salon uses we may not be that great a help. if yo are living above a NSS salon they may not be using the same products we all use. We are very concerned about MMA products ourselves and it gives us a bad name within the industry when nail technicians use products that are no very good for you. Sorry am finding it ahrd to use the correct words et probably one of the other geeks may be better than this than me. there are strit regualtions with concerns to ventiation within salons and H&S officers are starting to pick up on this. You need ventilation for the small particles that are flying around so you dont inhale thema and cause overexposure there are many threads on this . We hope you fidn a solution to your problem and sorry that i couldnt ahve been more help but i am sure if you can find the produtcs used then get the MDMS sheets that show you what theya re made of and the risks attached you should be able to get more helpful advice.
HTH AB

 

[Vetty]

As a working Technician and mother of 2, no I would not be happy with them living in a non-ventilated environment with nail products. I do not believe the vapours from the liquid to be harmful, but ventilation is essential in my opinion.

Hth, Yvette

 

[The Geek]

The vapours from monomer (any nail enhancment monomer - even MMA) are not harmful in the amounts you would find in any salon. In fact, the amount of vapour in the air (meaured in Parts Per Million) of a busy salon is 100-200 times below established safety levels. The problem is - it just stinks!

Its kind of like living above a curry house. It may always reek of curry, but the smell isnt going to harm you or your family.

Hope this helps put your mind at ease.

Good luck!

 

[mum]

Hi Concerned

You've had some good replies already but I'd like to add my bit to help allay your fears. I'm considered an 'expert' in this industry (whateven an expert may be!) but I have written 2 textbooks on the subject and an the Chairman of the Nail Forum for HABIA which is the Industry Authority, as recognised by the Government. The Nail Geek is actually the Deputy Chairman. Your concerns are important.

There has recently been an independant investigation (instigated by a local authority) on vapours occuring in a nail salon. The findings, although a bit long winded, are interesting and relevant to you. The report is on the HABIA website: www.habia.org (if it's not there yet it soon will be or you could request it from them 0845 2 306080). It deals with the safety levels of solvents in the air. (there are safe and unsafe levels of all chemicals in the air and when unacceptable levels that are getting closer to the unsafe levels pollution starts to be an issue. However, unsafe levels are still a long way from being actually dangerous)

I was pleased to read that, even inside the salon that had no specialised ventillation system, the levels were never higher that a fraction of what comes close to an unsafe level, even at it's busiest time with doors closed)

This means that there is absolutely no danger to you or you family from vapours from the salon. However, there is still the issue of 'nuisance', which many technicians would disagree with me is an issue.

Not everyone likes the smell of nail products in their home. Sam uses curry as a good example. If you move to a flat above an Indian restaurant, you can expect the odd waft of curry! If you were unaware of the salon when you moved or if it arrived after you, you do have a point. I personally don't think it unreasonable to expect the salon to ensure vapours are kept to a minimum by whatever means is necessary. There are many ways this can be done. Perhaps they need to log onto this site

Please be assured that you are not in any danger at all and take a look at the investigation to help put your mind at ease.

Marian

 

[concerned]

Thank you for all your replies, they are most appreciated.

Nuisance fumes I can live with, no problems…. It was just the thought that they could be damaging to my children that was worrying me.

With regards to MMA, I know for a fact they are not using that as the shop displayed a poster saying NO to MMA on their wall.

Thanks to all that replied again, this had really been playing on my mind.

 

[The Geek]

jsut had to say 'sweet response most honourable Chairperson'

 

[kas67]

I work as a nail tech with what I consider inadquate ventillation, I worked throughout my pregnancy untill I was 38 1/2 weeks pregnant my baby was born fit and extremly well and if for one moment I thought that there was any danger to my baby I would have quit there and then. When I found I was pregnant I asked at my local distributor the dangers of working with acrylic and monormor and was assured that it was totally safe, so I don't think you have much to worry about.

P.S As you can see fom the picture she's a happy healthy girl!.

 

[fiona wallace]

Just a few points for you hoping that they give you further reassurance...a chemical is everything we can SEE and TOUCH except light and electricity so even WE are made up of 'chemicals'.

Just like the curry analogy, everyone has a favourite perfume and most people know a perfume that makes their face screw up with distaste, the 'smell' from monomer is just that....a 'smell'.

As I only use Creative products, I can only speak for them and say that all the chemicals vapours are non-toxic, perhaps someone can enlighten us as to all other products on the market.

As for techs using masks, they primarily do this to save breathing in the dust they are creating around themselves and the client. Any dust that is not extracted by ventilation means (if there are any) will settle down, not rise up.

As a mother myself I can totally understand your concerns, your babies are your babies no matter what age they are (as you will no doubt find out), I brought my daughter into the nail business when she was 15, even though she suffered from eczema and slight asthma - both disorders have long since cleared up...she is still in the business 7 years later! (I would not have done this in a million years if I thought there was the slightest danger to her).
Fiona W.

 

[Sassy Hassy]

When change of user for a property is considered one of the planning issues can relate to smell, (Sam has already mentioned the Curry House smell) which could be a reason for planning to deny an application for change of use from A1 retail consent to another sector. It is a bit of a long shot, but you could take up with your planning department whether when (and if) they put in their planning application that they made reference to the smell that would be emanating from their premises, if they didn't then they could be in breach of their planning application. Just a thought.

 

[tara225]

Hi,

My only advice is to go with an odorless product. Creations has an odorless liquid plastic that has absolutely no odor, no burning, no primer. For more information about fumes and children, please email the owner of Creations at [email protected]. Tell her Roberta referred you. She is very knowledgeable about the human body and how fume affect each part of the body and brain.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Roberta
Creations Nail Technologies Inc.

Hi,

I have registered to this forum to seek advice from professionals in the nail industry.

I live above a nail salon and am highly concerned about the fumes, the main reason being that my 2 young children (one a baby) occupy a room directly above the nail salon.

The situation is as follows, the nail salon operates with a minimum of 3 staff and a maximum of 5, this is in an aprox 6x3meter premisis.For ventilation a small window is sometimes opened, sometimes the window is left closed all day.

I am finding that information regarding recommended ventilation is hard to come by, I have been in touch with Enviromental Health a while ago, this was not a route I wanted to go down but after 3 requests to the owner to do something about the fumes failed to achieve anything I felt I had to.I ended up telling the EH not to proceed after an initial enqiry as the owner assured me (one year ago) that they were going to fit extraction of some sort, this has not been done.
I cannot smell fumes as strong as I once could, so I am wondering if something is being done to mask the smell.

The actual smell is not what concerns me it is the possible dangers of the chemicals used, althought I admit I am fairly ignorant to the hard facts, I do know that a lot of nail technicians use face masks.

Is a small open window considered adequate ventilation ?

The main reason for this post is that I can discuss your informed opinions with the owner rather than getting the EH involved.

I would also appreciate links to relevant information.
Thanks for reading

 

[mum]

Hi Roberta

I'm afraid I disagree with you about going with and odourless product. Odourless does not meant that there are no vapours in the atmosphere (fumes are something different, it is vapours we are dealing with here)

Vapours are always present, some can be detected by our noses and others can't. Strong smelling does not mean dangerous.

It would be useful to know about the effects various chemicals have on the body but only if it is backed up with serious scientific study.

From the few words I have read on your product the term 'safest product' jumps out. What is safe for one person can be very insafe for another.

If you have some genuine information I'm sure everyone would love to read it but I hope this isn't some more scaremongering and the attempt at bringing into question other brands.

Thank you in advance for the info
Marian

 

[tara225]

Hi Marian,

Below is some information about our product and the difference between ours and others as researched, experienced and written the owner of Creations (who has also been a licensed cosmetologist for over 20 years and has been working with this product for over 7 years). Creations specializes in those who have been hurt or who have had allergic reactions to other products as well as those who want a change or want to try something new. The owner of the company has had a 98% success rate when putting this product on those who have had allergic reactions to other products. I'm including some information if anyone wants to give it a look.

Creations Liquid Plastic is not an acrylic and not a gel but a highly synthesized custom blend of plastics with no odor, no dispersion layer, no burning and uses no primer. It is hypo-allergenic which means that if a person has had an allergic reaction to other products, they would most likely be able to wear Creations. Its durability matches and even exceeds any acrylic and the application process is similar to a gel using UV lights to cure the product. However, since our product cures from the top down and the others cure from the bottom up, we use in our application process a method called quick curing. Quick curing is simply the technique of placing your fingernails under the light for one second and then removing them from the light for three to four seconds. This process is repeated a couple of times until no warmth is felt.

The major differences between our product and others is in its chemical structure. Most products have only long chains of molecules. Creations Liquid Plastic has both long and short chains of molecules combined with extra bursts of energy that form a bond that is both strong and durable. The other difference in ours is that we have no dispersion layer that needs to be wiped off. When the final overlay has been cured, our customers are left with a high glossy finish that remains until removed as well as natural looking nails that are both thin and light on your fingers but with the durability to last.


Our mission is to provide you with the necessary education and training so that you have the knowledge of what Creations Liquid Plastic is, how it works and how it is applied. We also stress the importance of keeping your work area and tools sanitized. Education and training is available and can be either a one-on-one type of class or a small group class. For those who would rather learn on their own, we have an instructional DVD and a step-by-step application and instruction manual which is available to assist them.


You can experiment by mixing colors or glitters right into our Liquid Plastic. Just mix it with our Corrector and Color Blend and brush it on the nail like you would apply a nail polish. Nail art can be drawn or art that is already precut can be added to the nails. Just remember to follow everything you add with a final coat of overlay. Create a traditional white tip or French manicure for an elegant look or try a color or glitter with nail art for something a little more fun. Creativity depends on the individual but the sky is the limit with what you can add to this product. We hope that you will give our Creations Liquid Plastic nail products a try and offer your clients a “safe” alternative to any other product on the market today.


Our product is a customized blend of liquid plastics. It is an advanced polymer technology
which benefits include:
a. Odor free
b. No chemical burning
c. No infection
d. Hypo-allergenic
e. Has the strength of an acrylic with the flexibility of a gel
f. There are no primers used.


There are 7 layers to the nail plate. The primers that are used in most artificial nails does not Aetch@ the natural nail nor does it Aeat away@ at it, but it does seriously dehydrate the nail plate leaving microscopic holes or tunnels throughout the nail plate. The primer has the ability to penetrate through all 7 layers of the nail. When this happens, it causes a chemical burn because it has reached the nerve endings.


Our product does not use any kind of primers (MAA). We use a protein bond. This protein bond
actually bonds with the protein of your natural nail, therefore, only penetrating the first layer of your nail. This process is called a Aprotein to protein@ bond.


The differences between this and gel nails is:


a. Our nails are a customized blend of liquid plastics. They cure from the top
to the bottom, thus, curing all the way through - easiest to file.

b. Gel nails cure from the bottom to the top which ends up leaving a dispersion layer.

This is a layer of product that does not cure that has to be wiped off with either
alcohol or acetone. This process of wiping off poses another risk of a chemical
reaction happening to your client.


In closing, this product is the safest way for yourself and your clients to wear artificial nails with
the added bonuses of no smell and no MAA, MMA or EMA.

We feel that it's basically everyone's personal choice as to what product they choose to wear. We are not here to bash any other product but simply to offer ours as an alternative.

Thanks for taking time to answer me and to read this. Have a great day.

Sincerely,

Roberta
Creations Nail Technologies Inc.

Hi Roberta

I'm afraid I disagree with you about going with and odourless product. Odourless does not meant that there are no vapours in the atmosphere (fumes are something different, it is vapours we are dealing with here)

Vapours are always present, some can be detected by our noses and others can't. Strong smelling does not mean dangerous.

It would be useful to know about the effects various chemicals have on the body but only if it is backed up with serious scientific study.

From the few words I have read on your product the term 'safest product' jumps out. What is safe for one person can be very insafe for another.

If you have some genuine information I'm sure everyone would love to read it but I hope this isn't some more scaremongering and the attempt at bringing into question other brands.

Thank you in advance for the info
Marian

 

[The Geek]

Hi Roberta, you must forgive me as I only have 2 seconds to respond right now. I will try to get to the post in full when I have a little more time.

Can you please confirm if Creations is an acrylate based system with glutaraldehyde? And why is the basis for the hyposallergenic claim?

I am not sure why the dubious comparison to EMA and MMA are made. I am sure you are aware of the FDA and CIRs research and studies into EMA.

The reason why I ask is because much of what was written is very suspect in its angle.

Not trying to start a flame - just curious. (BTW the natural nail plate is 100-150 layers thick based on the latest scientific data).


Thanks!

 

[Sassy Hassy]

Quote "Creations has an odorless liquid plastic that has absolutely no odor, no burning"

Quote "Quick curing is simply the technique of placing your fingernails under the light for one second and then removing them from the light for three to four seconds. This process is repeated a couple of times until no warmth is felt."

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the second paragraph contradict the first? If there is no burning then why the need for the quick curing method? And if you use this method with most gels it stops the heat spike anyway!! So I find this all a bit misleading

 

[tara225]

Hi,

Here is what a portion of the MSDS says regarding our Clear and Pink Overlay:

The OVERLAY products listed herein are composed of a high density, high molecular weight, custom engineered, fully synthesized proprietary polymer. The products contain no acids, methacrylate monomers or acrylate monomers.


Basically the hypo-allergenic claim refers to those people who are able to wear our product when they cannot wear any other products on the market because of allergic reactions. Without having the owner assist me, I don't want to post wrong information. You know probably more than I do regarding this industry. I have only been working in this industry for a little over one year. I have tried to learn the components of our products and how they differ from others but forgive me if I made a few mistakes in my previous post. The difference between ours and others is in its chemical structure. While others have long chains of molecules, Creations Liquid Plastic has short and long chains combined with numerous bursts of energy which when combined make a truly strong and durable nail. Any other questions you might have should probably be forwarded to the owner so she can answer them. I don't want to get something wrong even if it's a small error. Thanks for answering my posts and for correcting my mistake about the number of nail layers. I hope I was able to answer a few of your questions as well or at least explain myself further. Take care.

Sincerely,

Roberta
Creations Nail Tech.

Hi Roberta, you must forgive me as I only have 2 seconds to respond right now. I will try to get to the post in full when I have a little more time.

Can you please confirm if Creations is an acrylate based system with glutaraldehyde? And why is the basis for the hyposallergenic claim?

I am not sure why the dubious comparison to EMA and MMA are made. I am sure you are aware of the FDA and CIRs research and studies into EMA.

The reason why I ask is because much of what was written is very suspect in its angle.

Not trying to start a flame - just curious. (BTW the natural nail plate is 100-150 layers thick based on the latest scientific data).


Thanks!

 

[tara225]

Hi Sassy Hassy,

Maybe the no burning should be changed to "no chemical burning." See the following:

The primers that are used in most artificial nails does not Aetch@ the natural nail nor does it Aeat
away@ at it, but it does seriously dehydrate the nail plate leaving microscopic holes or tunnels throughout the nail plate. The primer has the ability to penetrate through all 7 layers of the nail. When this happens, it causes a chemical burn because it has reached the nerve endings.


Thanks for catching that --- hope this clarifies it a little better. Just for info purposes.....gels cure from the bottom up and Creations Liquid Plastic cures from the top down; therefore, the quick curing method is used to avoid heat spikes as you mentioned.

Roberta
Creations Nail Tech

Quote "Creations has an odorless liquid plastic that has absolutely no odor, no burning"

Quote "Quick curing is simply the technique of placing your fingernails under the light for one second and then removing them from the light for three to four seconds. This process is repeated a couple of times until no warmth is felt."

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the second paragraph contradict the first? If there is no burning then why the need for the quick curing method? And if you use this method with most gels it stops the heat spike anyway!! So I find this all a bit misleading

 

[geeg]

I use an advanced cross linked polymer in my business that also requires no primer, and doesn't burn and I've never known anyone to be allergic to the product unless they have seriously overexposed themselves (their fault not the product's fault). The company that manufactures this product has been in business for 25 years.

Its called Retention+ from Creative Nail Design.