Shellac and LED lamp?

[nails2nails]

. . . And that is why Doug schoon rocks! thanks for posting this naturalnails. X x x

Really? whilst It's nice of Doug to be told to come here and do a write up... he hasn't said anything that hasn't already been said on here before.

I feel none the wiser as to why the CND lamp or bulbs are so special that they can only cure Shellac?..and thats what I would like to know..quite simple really

 

[Unique.Tips]

Really? whilst It's nice of Doug to be told to come here and do a write up... he hasn't said anything that hasn't already been said on here before.

I feel none the wiser as to why the CND lamp or bulbs are so special that they can only cure Shellac?..and thats what I would like to know..quite simple really

BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO SAY! there is no other reason why you should use the recommended equipment of ANY system then what has been repeated OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN by Fellow geeks, administrators, and Doug schoon himself.

I don't understand what else you need to hear other than INTENSITY OF BULBS/LAMPS VARY FROM MANUFACTURER TO MANUFACTURER. And if you want a proper and complete cure of your product.. USE THE LAMP/BULBS SUGGESTED FOR YOUR PRODUCT BY THE PRODUCT MANUFACTURER. This goes for ANY system... Not just Shellac.

If you want to know anything more detailed then that.. Then become a chemist and do a study on it yourself. Until then... Use the correct equipment or be a messer. It's as simple as that

 

[IBUK]

We have Shellac and have a Shellac lamp

My question is:

What is so different about the Shellac lamp to warrant the price?
You can buy a 5 finger cure UV lamp for £35. Are their special UV bulbs in the shellac lamps (maybe lined with gold) - cant be some new technology as the old Brisa lamps are also fine to cure shellac to 100% and they have been around for a while.

Or is it just down to the brand and manufacturer setting the price and telling everyone they must use it for their profit margins? They are a business after all and the point is to make money so no point pretending there is nothing in it for them to say this lamp MUST be used. Surely it doesnt cost more to make that lamp than another lamp (though it is rather snazzier than the £35 lamp)?

Just my thoughts....

We didnt start with the Shellac lamp as it was out of stock when we first got our Shellac in last year (same time as the base/top coat issues) yet Shellac is one of our biggest sellers and we havent had problems...
however when we did get our Shellac lamp, it paid for itself in 1/2 a day so the cost wasnt a major issue

 

[NancySyd]

I feel none the wiser as to why the CND lamp or bulbs are so special that they can only cure Shellac?..and thats what I would like to know..quite simple really

I don't think that IS what he's saying nails2nails. I think what he is saying is that CND can ensure a proper cure only with the CND lamp - for a variety of reasons like the output and placement of the bulbs, the placement of reflectors, the correct positioning of the hand, etc.

To follow the cookie analogy, there are instructions/recipe that a manufacturer develops to assure a proper cure. For a cookie that means cooking at 350º in any oven, for Shellac, that means "cooking" in a CND light. If you follow the manufacturer's instructions, you are assured the correct cookie/product. But the difference from making a cookie is that there is no mechanism available, like a thermometer, to measure the performance of a UV light or the completeness of a cure and so, unlike an oven, he can't be sure that the other lamp is doing exactly what the CND light does - he can't ensure the quality of his product.

I think this whole issue is being made out to be about disingenuous companies and corporate greed, and making Doug Schoon out to be a shill for CND. I don't think that is the issue at all, as it is not in CND's interests to insist on using the CND light because it limits the market penetration of the product. I think this is about quality control of a trademarked product. CND has a great product that works (when used properly). They don't want others futzing around with it and calling it Shellac™. That is an abundantly reasonable and responsible position for any company to take.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I personally don't use Shellac so for me this whole debate has become really boring and totally over discussed on the board. If you want to use the product and buy into the marketing, then do as instructed.

CND can ensure a proper cure only with the CND lamp - for a variety of reasons like the output and placement of the bulbs, the placement of reflectors, the correct positioning of the hand, etc.

But, how is it possible for the same lamp to have exactly the right unique & critical placement etc. when doing pedicures? The bottom plate is removed and the foot is therefore in a lower position and different placement to the hand?

I have no problems with CND insisting on their lamp for their product but I still do not understand why, on this board at least, the CND lamp is OK to use with just about any other manufacturer's product.

 

[Evaperk]

We have Shellac and have a Shellac lamp
What is so different about the Shellac lamp to warrant the price?
You can buy a 5 finger cure UV lamp for £35. Are their special UV bulbs in the shellac lamps (maybe lined with gold) - cant be some new technology as the old Brisa lamps are also fine to cure shellac to 100% and they have been around for a while.

Or is it just down to the brand and manufacturer setting the price and telling everyone they must use it for their profit margins? They are a business after all and the point is to make money so no point pretending there is nothing in it for them to say this lamp MUST be used. Surely it doesnt cost more to make that lamp than another lamp (though it is rather snazzier than the £35 lamp)?

Just my thoughts....

We didnt start with the Shellac lamp as it was out of stock when we first got our Shellac in last year (same time as the base/top coat issues) yet Shellac is one of our biggest sellers and we havent had problems...
however when we did get our Shellac lamp, it paid for itself in 1/2 a day so the cost wasnt a major issue

If you have the CND lamp you will know why it is more expensive. Because it is quality. Not just a little snazzier!

I have a cheap 5 finger cure lamp that I used to use for cuccio soak off gels. My CND lamp was just under 3 times as expensive. The cheap lamp is just that, cheap plastic, cheap lining, cheap timer, no fan! The CND lamp looks, feels and exudes QUALITY!

You wouldn't ask argos why they sell a cookworks kettle for £9.89 but the De'longhi Icona is £69.99 would you even though they both boil water.

 

[Unique.Tips]

I personally don't use Shellac so for me this whole debate has become really boring and totally over discussed on the board. If you want to use the product and buy into the marketing, then do as instructed.



But, how is it possible for the same lamp to have exactly the right unique & critical placement etc. when doing pedicures? The bottom plate is removed and the foot is therefore in a lower position and different placement to the hand?

I have no problems with CND insisting on their lamp for their product but I still do not understand why, on this board at least, the CND lamp is OK to use with just about any other manufacturer's product.

No where does CND state that any of it's product/equipment should be used with other product systems. Even their chief scientist states that you should stay within your product line in order to receive optimum results no matter which you choose.

As far as placement is concerned, I believe it's more about intensity of the bulbs and power of the lamp then the placement of them.

What people are not understanding is that it's not just about Shellac. They are not the only reputable company that suggests and insists on their lamp being used with their product.

But I guess the messers are going to continue to be just that which is fine because my business will continue to flourish.

 

[NancySyd]

I personally don't use Shellac so for me this whole debate has become really boring and totally over discussed on the board. If you want to use the product and buy into the marketing, then do as instructed.



But, how is it possible for the same lamp to have exactly the right unique & critical placement etc. when doing pedicures? The bottom plate is removed and the foot is therefore in a lower position and different placement to the hand?

I have no problems with CND insisting on their lamp for their product but I still do not understand why, on this board at least, the CND lamp is OK to use with just about any other manufacturer's product.

Again, I don't think anyone said that there is a unique placement - it is not about uniqueness, it's about quality control.

The reason why the CND lamp is okay to use with other manufacturers' products is simple - it's because those manufacturers said so. For example, Nail Harmony, ACG, Geleration all say that what is required to cure their product is either their respective LED lights or a 36 watt CFL UV light which is what the CND light is - look up the instructions for each of them. But note that those products are different from Shellac - they are LED UV curable, Shellac is not (or at least not consistently).

Look, I'm not saying that Shellac is the only way to go. I use other brands. But I follow the manufacturers' instructions for each of them. And I'm not arguing for blind allegiance to anyone's instructions. Professional nail techs must use their education, training and experience to customize the service for each client. Adjustments are necessary and appropriate. But CND says that changing the light is too big an adjustment. CND/Shellac's instructions are more restrictive than the other brands, but they make sense given Shellac's differences from the other brands.

So, I think it is appropriate to make adjustments in your service based on your professional judgment and within the parameters of licensing and other responsibilities. I guess ultimately the question comes down to are you making the adjustment (in this case, not using the CND light) because it is what is appropriate to your client, or because it is more convenient, less expensive or easier for you?

 

[JuicyLucy]

No where does CND state that any of it's product/equipment should be used with other product systems.

I never said "CND state", I said "on this board".

What people are not understanding is that it's not just about Shellac
They are not the only reputable company that suggests and insists on their lamp being used with their product.

Personally, I was not aware that any other company insisted on a specific lamp the way CND do, but correct me with the company name if I am wrong.

But I guess the messers are going to continue to be just that which is fine because my business will continue to flourish.

Like I said, I do not use the product, so it makes no difference to me. If people want to buy into the Shellac system then they should go all the way.

xxx

 

[ellewopter]

But, how is it possible for the same lamp to have exactly the right unique & critical placement etc. when doing pedicures? The bottom plate is removed and the foot is therefore in a lower position and different placement to the hand?

There are 2 plates for the lamp one for hands, one for feet so not lower.

You know what, I would rather my system came with a lamp recommended, I know my system 100% will work, CND are no mickey mouse outfit. Do you really think they would go to the trouble of developing a lamp for a laugh? I really couldn't care less anymore about helping people with non CND lamps, you are asking for trouble. I do however have a lot of time for people who care enough to do things the right way

I appreciate that Doug commented on the thread but think it would have been more beneficial if he were to have explained in more scientific terms.

I really don't mean to be patronising, but do you all REALLY understand the science behind the curing of a product? It isn't complicated but is an exact science and has to be done right.

But I think at the end of the day he put it in a nut shell whatever you are using CND or not you need to use the correct lamp for your system, simple as.......

Now if another manufacturer is happy that any old 36/9/32794032 watt (lol) lamp will cure their product then great, but really how are you ensuring that the product is actually cured (and not over cured ?)

Not bashing any brands but this to me feels a lot like Russian roulette as wattage is not the same as UV output? Do you not feel safer knowing that the lamp you are using has been tested and proved to cure the product rather than giving any old lamp a go and hoping for the best? Yea it looks cured but could be any variation of 'cured' would you be happy if your dentist did this to you? or your hairdresser mixing up any old mixture slapping it on your hair for whatever they thought as an experement?? no? me neither....

 

[geeg]

Really? whilst It's nice of Doug to be told to come here and do a write up... he hasn't said anything that hasn't already been said on here before.

I feel none the wiser as to why the CND lamp or bulbs are so special that they can only cure Shellac?..and thats what I would like to know..quite simple really

I think you are being deliberately obtuse, or thick, certainly unappreciative and uninformed.

I personally asked Doug to respond to this thread. He is a very old friend of mine, and I thought it would help you all. He was not TOLD by anyone to respond. He gave us his time.

He has just completed a 60 mile walk, not a week ago, that raised over 9 million ( yes you read it right, over nine million USD) for breast cancer. He loves our industry and has supported the women in our industry for years by raising many many millions ... PLUS it is his Thanksgiving holiday weekend which is an important family time for we Americans and STILL he took the time to get in touch.

@ nails2nails .. Ungrateful, unappreciative and ungracious of you.

To the others who have intelligence and learned from Doug's information in the past, you did a great job in this thread of informing the ignorant which spared Doug from having to rewrite his book and posting it here again for those who don't want to 'get it' and who probably never will. To those whom 'the cap fits' BUY HIS BOOK AND LEARN PEOPLE.

@doug. ... Thank you as always for giving us your time and your always easy to understand explanations. I appreciate you taking the time and enjoy the rest of your weekend. love from me G

 

[Clairdestiny]

I think you are being deliberately obtuse, or thick, certainly unappreciative and uninformed.

I personally asked Doug to respond to this thread. He is a very old friend of mine, and I thought it would help you all. He was not TOLD by anyone to respond. He gave us his time.

He has just completed a 60 mile walk, not a week ago, that raised over 9 million ( yes you read it right, over nine million USD) for breast cancer. He loves our industry and has supported the women in our industry for years by raising many many millions ... PLUS it is his Thanksgiving holiday weekend which is an important family time for we Americans and STILL he took the time to get in touch.

@ nails2nails .. Ungrateful, unappreciative and ungracious of you.

To the others who have intelligence and learned from Doug's information in the past, you did a great job in this thread of informing the ignorant which spared Doug from having to rewrite his book and posting it here again for those who don't want to 'get it' and who probably never will. To those whom 'the cap fits' BUY HIS BOOK AND LEARN PEOPLE.

@doug. ... Thank you as always for giving us your time and your always easy to understand explanations. I appreciate you taking the time and enjoy the rest of your weekend. love from me G

Amen xx p.s thank you doug xxxx

 

[BeautyDiaries]

I don't understand why this same thread comes up again and again and again. It's boring now. The fact of the matter is some people choose to follow manufacturers instructions and others don't. End of.

 

[geeg]

I don't understand why this same thread comes up again and again and again. It's boring now. The fact of the matter is some people choose to follow manufacturers instructions and others don't. End of.

The fact is that some people CARE and others don't! That is the bottom line.

It is really all about an attitude of mind. I think we all know that.

I also find it boring but I still like to TRY to help and inform others.

 

[Evaperk]

I wonder would those people arguing the toss put cheap mineral oil in their car if the manufacturer states that synthetic must be used just to save a few pounds. Did you contact your car dealer and grill them as to the science and technicalities of why synthetic oil is important to your car? Probably not you just followed their advice because they made the bloomin thing and know best!

Why trust Mercedes but not CND?

 

[Clairdestiny]

.......

 

[BeautyDiaries]

The fact is that some people CARE and others don't! That is the bottom line.

It is really all about an attitude of mind. I think we all know that.

I also find it boring but I still like to TRY to help and inform others.

Well I cant argue with you there Geeg. Kudos to you for continuing to TRY and be informative without getting frustrated!

Sam

xoxo

 

[geeg]

Well I cant argue with you there Geeg. Kudos to you for continuing to TRY and be informative without getting frustrated!

Sam

xoxo

lol

I DO get frustrated as you can probably see by my post above. lol

 

[daisyl]

Thank you doug for taking the time to post. Respected and appreciated.

 

[Krr607]

I think you are being deliberately obtuse, or thick, certainly unappreciative and uninformed.

I personally asked Doug to respond to this thread. He is a very old friend of mine, and I thought it would help you all. He was not TOLD by anyone to respond. He gave us his time.

He has just completed a 60 mile walk, not a week ago, that raised over 9 million ( yes you read it right, over nine million USD) for breast cancer. He loves our industry and has supported the women in our industry for years by raising many many millions ... PLUS it is his Thanksgiving holiday weekend which is an important family time for we Americans and STILL he took the time to get in touch.

@ nails2nails .. Ungrateful, unappreciative and ungracious of you.

To the others who have intelligence and learned from Doug's information in the past, you did a great job in this thread of informing the ignorant which spared Doug from having to rewrite his book and posting it here again for those who don't want to 'get it' and who probably never will. To those whom 'the cap fits' BUY HIS BOOK AND LEARN PEOPLE.

@doug. ... Thank you as always for giving us your time and your always easy to understand explanations. I appreciate you taking the time and enjoy the rest of your weekend. love from me G

Well said!! if people still refuse to believe and think this is all a marketing ploy, perhaps they can learn from my experience...yes...you will probably hate me for being predominantly a DIY'er and I was referred to briefly at the beginning of this post.
I am someone who has a passion for nails and has done all my life, I work full time in another profession and my hobby and passion for nails is something that causes me to spend at least an hour a day browsing this and other nail related web sites.
I do my nails and about about 4 friends only so I am not claiming to be in the same 'league' as the awe inspiring 'pro's' on here.
However, my passion led me to do manicure course with Harmony UK and my passion flourished.
I am telling you this just for background..
I used a standard 36watt lamp for Shellac and one of those 'crescent shaped' LED lamps for Gelish for several months.

I was proud and delighted with the results and thought all was well, like many of you I thought the insistence on manufacturers to use their specific lamp was marketing and corporate greed.

About two months back I developed a dreadful allergy, fingers itched , swelled, erythema, and eventually the skin blistered and broke down.
This was painful, upsetting and took weeks to heal.

After this happened I began to read extensively and came across Doug's articles.
I am no scientist and can't remember the exact terminology, but my basic understanding was there is a difference in wavelengths between lamp bulbs (Doug please correct me if I am wrong).

And yes of course CND are going to endorse the use of their lamp, why would they risk it and say it's ok to use any lamp. Without them forking out to scientifically test safety of every lamp on the market with Shellac it would be downright irresponsible to say it's ok.

The bottom line is I learnt the hard way , I thought I knew better (as do many others on here it seems).

You CANNOT see with the naked eye if Shellac (or any soak off gel) is overcured or undercured, therefore why take the chance?

I now have a Harmony Gelish Lamp for my Gelish and a CND lamp for my Shellac.
Both are wonderful lamps, The CND lamp is not that expensive I don't think and I really don't see why someone who makes a career out of nails begrudges buying a quality product.

If you still are unconvinced and want more info why don't you just read the research?????

and if you are sceptical about companies paying researchers to test and publish their findings...well ..wake up! research does not come cheap and takes a long time, who else is going to fund it if not the companies themselves. Like it or not this is how it works. It happens in pharmaceuticals and most industries.

There......I've been brave enough to post and give you my nasty experience due to my foolishness..