Shellac with standard UV lamp?

[NancySyd]

Clearly your

Clearly your 10 years experience and your partners 7 years as a qualified electrician has counted for nothing on here as you are not banging the Same CND drum that people are getting brain washed with.

Regards

Ellie

That is a really insulting response. This is a difficult and complex issue that lots of intelligent people have strongly dissenting opinions on. To dismiss people who disagree with you as brainwashing or "banging the same CND drum" does a disservice to us all, and especially to you.

 

[The Geek]

The only thing I would say to @NancySyd post is that I don't think CND's "strictness" comes into play here. They do not need to divulge or be transparent about their formula, lamp sellers/manufacturers just need to replicate the UV energy that CND products require and produce. They would also need to substantiate it (anyone making lamps should have the equipment to do that). As a distributor, I would welcome that. We end up spending a crazy amount of time and effort discussing the importance of lamps when we could all be spending it on something far more productive and meaningful. As a company, we are not interested in selling one off lamps (we technically make a loss on the category) we are interested in selling success. You cannot achieve that consistently with a mish-mash approach to how lamps are currently tuned and made.

 

[NancySyd]

The only thing I would say to @NancySyd post is that I don't think CND's "strictness" comes into play here. They do not need to divulge or be transparent about their formula, lamp sellers/manufacturers just need to replicate the UV energy that CND products require and produce. They would also need to substantiate it (anyone making lamps should have the equipment to do that). As a distributor, I would welcome that. We end up spending a crazy amount of time and effort discussing the importance of lamps when we could all be spending it on something far more productive and meaningful. As a company, we are not interested in selling one off lamps (we technically make a loss on the category) we are interested in selling success. You cannot achieve that consistently with a mish-mash approach to how lamps are currently tuned and made.

I think you'll find that I was generally agreeing with you. Except for one point - even if other companies could prove that their lamps properly cured CND Shellac, it would be meaningless if CND Shellac's instructions and certification required the CND lamp. I think it is likely that other lamps properly cure CND Shellac. But as long as using another lamp is not allowed in the manufacturer's instructions, one's insurance would be in jeopardy. That is a difference between CND and other brands which, to a greater or lesser extent, allow for the use of other lamps. I choose not to use CND Shellac because I try to use products correctly, i.e., according to the manufacturer's instructions. While I disagree with the lamp requirement as a marketing strategy, I understand and respect why CND has done this - to protect the proper and consistent use of its innovative product.

 

[The Geek]

Yes, I was pretty much totally agreeing with you. However this:

it would be meaningless if CND Shellac's instructions and certification required the CND lamp

Is a really good point that I hadn't considered. Surely though, this would be applicable to any manufacturer as they all have instructions they have to issue for others to follow.

I still think that the starting point is for lamp manufacturers to create lamps that reproduce the energy output that other lamps produce and substantiate that they do. THEN manufacturers can reconsider their position based on that substantiation. I believe that the problem with attempting that right now is so many pros are uneducated on the issue, so these lamp manufacturers simply don't need to. The other problem is that I suspect it isn't cost effective as they would have to create different models for different products which would most likely land the unit price about where they are now. But I would love to see it so we can talk more about nail products and less about electronics

 

[Misstoniilou]

Sorry if I offended you. I thought I replied in a positive and constructive manner.

I would agree that UV light at the same strength, the same distance and placement (I assume that is what you mean) and the same wavelength would do the job, but that isn't what you inferred nor what I posted about. Sadly, many will read your post thinking that a multitude of lamps meet that criteria when in fact, they do not.

And yes, CND do not manufacture their lamp (much like Apple doesn't manufacture their phones). They design their lamp to emit the correct amount, intensity and wavelength required to correctly and completely cure their light cured products. This isn't unique to CND - other brands do the same. That is why it is important to match the two together and follow the manufacturers instructions. Just as it is important for all professionals to get educated on the subject.

And yes... I am a distributor, but I fail to see what I am supposedly not allowed to admit? I would be saying the exact same thing about using intermixing Gelish and some generic lamp because "UV is UV". I am pretty sure if you go through my post history you will see me doing that very thing. I try to help people with facts, education and support irrespective of what products they use. That is why I created this site.

Oh, no thats not what i was trying to say at all and i didn't mean to come off snappy.

My other half is better at explaining it lol!

 

[Misstoniilou]

I think you'll find that I was generally agreeing with you. Except for one point - even if other companies could prove that their lamps properly cured CND Shellac, it would be meaningless if CND Shellac's instructions and certification required the CND lamp. I think it is likely that other lamps properly cure CND Shellac. But as long as using another lamp is not allowed in the manufacturer's instructions, one's insurance would be in jeopardy. That is a difference between CND and other brands which, to a greater or lesser extent, allow for the use of other lamps. I choose not to use CND Shellac because I try to use products correctly, i.e., according to the manufacturer's instructions. While I disagree with the lamp requirement as a marketing strategy, I understand and respect why CND has done this - to protect the proper and consistent use of its innovative product.

Thats sort of what i was trying to say about being a distributor and CND not being able to help.If TheGeek advised that CND dont maufactur it so you could do it X or Y way (Which technically you could if you knew what you're doing) she/cnd could be in a lotof trouble if things were done incorrectly.

 

[beauty_girl]

I went to a beauty wholesalers the other day and the lady who served me said exactly the same thing about lamps. She said that you can mix say NSI gel and then put cuccio gel over the top as 'dont fall for the fact that you have to buy the companies own lamp '.

I have an NSI uv lamp and I'm hoping that it's not necessarily a generic lamp and that it is trusted to cure the NSI gel x

 

[Ellie74]

That is a really insulting response. This is a difficult and complex issue that lots of intelligent people have strongly dissenting opinions on. To dismiss people who disagree with you as brainwashing or "banging the same CND drum" does a disservice to us all, and especially to you.

To imply that someone is unintelligent because they do not share the same opinion is also quite insulting! It seems that this forum doesn't appreciate people with any other opinion than CND. I do use Their products and find many of them to be really good but if I prefer to use another product which I find works just as well I will say that product is ok too. Regarding the lamp situation if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it's a duck

Regards

Ellie

 

[The Geek]

I don't see where anyone implied you were unintelligent? Nor do I see anyone questioning your choice in products, there are enough brands out there to find the right fit for you. What is being questioned is the way you (and many) dismiss facts about the importance of matching lights with light cured products. In short, this isn't about brands, it is about the facts and science behind UV curing.

Here is a video that clearly demonstrates the opposite of what you believe (that lamps are interchangeable).

 

[NancySyd]

To imply that someone is unintelligent because they do not share the same opinion is also quite insulting! It seems that this forum doesn't appreciate people with any other opinion than CND. I do use Their products and find many of them to be really good but if I prefer to use another product which I find works just as well I will say that product is ok too. Regarding the lamp situation if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it's a duck

Regards

Ellie

Again, with the defensive attitude!! At no point did I (or anyone else) imply that you were unintelligent, nor did I chastise you in your choice in products. In fact, you were the one who called people brainwashed. If you read my postings in this thread or forum, you would see that I am highly critical of CND/CND Shellac, and no longer use it because of those concerns. There are lots of excellent professional and consumer products out there and I encourage people to use them and find what works for them. But finding what works also means learning the science of our professions. It does not mean dismissing the science behind these products, and it certainly does not mean ignoring information and data that doesn't comport with our own opinions.

 

[Ellie74]

I don't see where anyone implied you were unintelligent? Nor do I see anyone questioning your choice in products, there are enough brands out there to find the right fit for you. What is being questioned is the way you (and many) dismiss facts about the importance of matching lights with light cured products. In short, this isn't about brands, it is about the facts and science behind UV curing.

Here is a video that clearly demonstrates the opposite of what you believe (that lamps are interchangeable).

This does look interesting, and I will have a look once I am able to open the link. If you look back at previous posts you will clearly see that people got extremely defensive over the CND versus CCO debate. I was, and still am using it whilst training.

Regards

Ellie

 

[Ellie74]

Ho

Again, with the defensive attitude!! At no point did I (or anyone else) imply that you were unintelligent, nor did I chastise you in your choice in products. In fact, you were the one who called people brainwashed. If you read my postings in this thread or forum, you would see that I am highly critical of CND/CND Shellac, and no longer use it because of those concerns. There are lots of excellent professional and consumer products out there and I encourage people to use them and find what works for them. But finding what works also means learning the science of our professions. It does not mean dismissing the science behind these products, and it certainly does not mean ignoring information and data that doesn't comport with our own opinions.

How can I possibly respond to you comments without coming across as defensive, that is a bullying tactic which I do not appreciate. Children are chastised for been naughty, not generally adults on a light hearted discussion forum, and if you re read previous posts you will clearly see that your comments were against the products I had said I was using whilst training. The fact of this matter is we can All have a different opinion on things, it is good to have hints, tips and ideas to share with like minded people and I appreciate that, but please do not reply to me telling me how NOT to react when you are clearly doing the exact same thing.

Kind Regards

Ellie

 

[NancySyd]

Ho

How can I possibly respond to you comments without coming across as defensive, that is a bullying tactic which I do not appreciate. Children are chastised for been naughty, not generally adults on a light hearted discussion forum, and if you re read previous posts you will clearly see that your comments were against the products I had said I was using whilst training. The fact of this matter is we can All have a different opinion on things, it is good to have hints, tips and ideas to share with like minded people and I appreciate that, but please do not reply to me telling me how NOT to react when you are clearly doing the exact same thing.

Kind Regards

Ellie

No, Ellie, I/we are not doing the same thing. I am not assuming the worst possible intention of those who disagree with me, I am not reading the most negative thing into simple statements, I am capable of disagreeing without being disagreeable. You're the one who keeps calling names - calling those who disagree with you "bullies," "brainwashed," "banging the CND drum." If you feel you are getting a less positive response than you seek, perhaps you might examine your own role in it.

And my comments were quite clear - legally the products you were using for training are considered counterfeits. That's not my opinion, that's a legal fact, and it's one you should be aware of, especially if you choose to use these products. As I said before, you have a right to use whatever you want; it's your business. And I've never chastised you, in fact, I've pointed out that I'm not chastising you.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but facts are facts. What I've offered you are facts as I know them with the supporting sources, plain and simple. You can accept or reject them as you wish, but that doesn't change them. You haven't presented any information to dispute what I or anyone else presented.

 

[Ellie74]

No, Ellie, I/we are not doing the same thing. I am not assuming the worst possible intention of those who disagree with me, I am not reading the most negative thing into simple statements, I am capable of disagreeing without being disagreeable. You're the one who keeps calling names - calling those who disagree with you "bullies," "brainwashed," "banging the CND drum." If you feel you are getting a less positive response than you seek, perhaps you might examine your own role in it.

And my comments were quite clear - legally the products you were using for training are considered counterfeits. That's not my opinion, that's a legal fact, and it's one you should be aware of, especially if you choose to use these products. As I said before, you have a right to use whatever you want; it's your business. And I've never chastised you, in fact, I've pointed out that I'm not chastising you.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but facts are facts. What I've offered you are facts as I know them with the supporting sources, plain and simple. You can accept or reject them as you wish, but that doesn't change them. You haven't presented any information to dispute what I or anyone else presented.

Yes you seem to be "pointing" lots of things out to me which quite frankly (as I keep trying to explain) to you I do not appreciate. You are doing the exact same thing by calling me defensive when clearly you are tying yourself up into little knots and getting all upset with yourself. You have also misquoted me, I said "bullying tactics" not a bully, and how do we know your "facts are facts" when we only have your say so. My facts are based on my experiences so far, and that we do not necessarily need to follow what everyone else tells us is great, we are after all quite capable of making up our own minds!

Kind Regards

Ellie

 

[NancySyd]

Yes you seem to be "pointing" lots of things out to me which quite frankly (as I keep trying to explain) to you I do not appreciate. You are doing the exact same thing by calling me defensive when clearly you are tying yourself up into little knots and getting all upset with yourself. You have also misquoted me, I said "bullying tactics" not a bully, and how do we know your "facts are facts" when we only have your say so. My facts are based on my experiences so far, and that we do not necessarily need to follow what everyone else tells us is great, we are after all quite capable of making up our own minds!

Kind Regards

Ellie

Knock yourself out Ellie. Facts are not based on your experience (and they're not "yours"); they're based on the experiences of large numbers of people and data. People here are trying very hard to give the the facts beyond your experience. I hope maybe one day you'll see and appreciate that.

 

[Ellie74]

Knock yourself out Ellie. Facts are not based on your experience (and they're not "yours"); they're based on the experiences of large numbers of people and data. People here are trying very hard to give the the facts beyond your experience. I hope maybe one day you'll see and appreciate that.

I clearly had no right to reply to your offensive comments!