Your thoughts - redundancy, notice, pay etc

[Golden Delish]

Hope some of you can share your thoughts on this.

My eldest was an apprentice hairdresser and at the end of one working day, was told that the employer could no longer afford them and that their employment was terminated from that point. This was one day before their 2 month contract was legally/technically/officially due.
They did actually volunteer to work the next day, to help out as the salon was rammed, so had a full 2 calendar months of paid employment. No notice period was given by the employer.



We understand from ACAS that even though there wasn't a contract or any form of terms and conditions, verbal or written they're entitled to a week's paid notice and any holiday entitlement (which amounts to a full week's wages)



The question is, would you bother to ask the employer for those two weeks pay or would you chalk it up to experience and avoid any hassle?

 

[Nails<3]

If your eldest is entitled to this money then make sure you get it.

If the employer refuses then ACAS will take over and get the money back for you.

X

 

[laurakate]

While we're on the subject, I thought I'd just ask...Are ACAS the people to go to if your employer is breaking any employment law, from how they recruit to how they pay you?

 

[persianista]

ACAS simply advise people, both employees and employers. They are impartial and advisory. They will not bring a case for you. You would need to find a no win no fee lawyer to take your case on.
It is unlikely you will find anyone to take on a case involving 2 weeks pay for an apprentice, as the lawyer would earn next to nothing from it. The CAB would also be able to advise you.

If an employer is breaking the law, the relevent authorities to report them to would be dependant on the law they had broken. HMRC for PAYE problems, local council for health and safety issues.
If you are not happy with a recruitment procedure, and have strong evidence of wrongdoing, you would have to bring a case at employment tribuneral.

 

[Golden Delish]

ACAS simply advise people, both employees and employers. They are impartial and advisory. They will not bring a case for you. You would need to find a no win no fee lawyer to take your case on.
It is unlikely you will find anyone to take on a case involving 2 weeks pay for an apprentice, as the lawyer would earn next to nothing from it. The CAB would also be able to advise you.

If an employer is breaking the law, the relevent authorities to report them to would be dependant on the law they had broken. HMRC for PAYE problems, local council for health and safety issues.
If you are not happy with a recruitment procedure, and have strong evidence of wrongdoing, you would have to bring a case at employment tribuneral.

Thanks for the reply but I'm a bit confused lol!:biggrin:

Is it common for an employer to ignore employment law and give no notice period and not pay holiday entitlement in the hair and beauty industries - either deliberately or through ignorance?

Knowing how incestuous the hair and beauty world is, do people just "suck it up", not cause a fuss,move on and lose out or do they try and get the money?

We spoke to ACAS in quite a lot of detail and I may have got it wrong but they explained that employment law set out that there has to be a notice period given (paid) and holiday accrued but not taken must also be paid. They mentioned that if we had no luck approaching the employer, then they would be happy to help further - mentioning mediation and contacting the employer direct.:Scared: Whilst they don't take action directly, the implication was that they could get involved.

We're certainly not anti-employer and really understand how tough it is as we have our own business. We wondered how others felt,a kind of a straw poll if you like. We're truly not intending to upset anyone here or in the real world ...merely curious:biggrin: We dislike the litigious society we've become in the UK so a tribunal or "no win, no fee" lawyers were never an option:wink2:

Has anyone else been in this position in the last year, either as an employer or an employee? How did it turn out?

 

[sophiegees]

If he is entitled to it then he should be paid it. Perhaps a polite letter to the employer pointing out his or he 'error'. If you work it all out - how much holiday pay he is owed plus the weeks wages and give the employer the total he needs to pay.

If you feel he will not respond to this then maybe add - please send payment within 14 days or the matter will be taken further. If you can avoid this then maybe save that bit for the second letter.

But yes if he is owed it he should get it - the law will be on his side.[

xx

 

[persianista]

Thanks for the reply but I'm a bit confused lol!:biggrin:

Is it common for an employer to ignore employment law and give no notice period and not pay holiday entitlement in the hair and beauty industries - either deliberately or through ignorance?

We spoke to ACAS in quite a lot of detail and I may have got it wrong but they explained that employment law set out that there has to be a notice period given (paid) and holiday accrued but not taken must also be paid. They mentioned that if we had no luck approaching the employer, then they would be happy to help further - mentioning mediation and contacting the employer direct.:Scared: Whilst they don't take action directly, the implication was that they could get involved.

We're certainly not anti-employer and really understand how tough it is as we have our own business. We wondered how others felt,a kind of a straw poll if you like. We're truly not intending to upset anyone ...merely curious:biggrin: We dislike the litigious society we've become in the UK so a tribunal or "no win, no fee" lawyers were never an option:wink2:

Has anyone else been in this position in the last year, either as an employer or an employee? How did it turn out?

Normally salons respect employment law just like any other business does. I agree that you should send a letter to the salon outlining what ACAS has advised you.
I was simply pointing out that ACAS is an advisory service, and not a lawyer. They will help and advise you, but do not using act as a personal lawyer.
Often the threat of legal action is enough to encourage the salon owner to pay what is legally due.

 

[Blue Rose]

Hope some of you can share your thoughts on this.

My eldest was an apprentice hairdresser and at the end of one working day, was told that the employer could no longer afford them and that their employment was terminated from that point. This was one day before their 2 month contract was legally/technically/officially due.
They did actually volunteer to work the next day, to help out as the salon was rammed, so had a full 2 calendar months of paid employment. No notice period was given by the employer.



We understand from ACAS that even though there wasn't a contract or any form of terms and conditions, verbal or written they're entitled to a week's paid notice and any holiday entitlement (which amounts to a full week's wages)



The question is, would you bother to ask the employer for those two weeks pay or would you chalk it up to experience and avoid any hassle?

Yes you're right that your eldest would be entitled to a week's pay in lieu of notice but I don't understand how the holiday owed would work out at a full week if they've only been there 2 months

 

[laurakate]

I feel that the more people object to people not abiding by employment law, the more that can be done about bad practice.

ACAS sounds like they are being really helpful to you and if it was me, I would consider taking them up on their offer if it became necessary.

The fact that they told him at the end of the day that they didn't need him from that point on was very unprofessional and unreasonable in my opinion: they must have known sooner than this that they couldn't keep him on and so should have given him notice relating to this.

 

[Tomme]

I was made redundant from retail 3 years ago without notice. Actually I went back after 2 months sick leave on a half day re induction( no idea why as I was the manager and a cover manager came in for te 2nd half of te day) at about 3pm i had a call from the cover manager crying and the fire alarm blasting in the background saying we had all been made redundant and she was told to set off the alarm to get everyone out and to cash up.

Anyway, I got half my wages for that month although no1 was paid the month before I was owed, and. A letter saying the rest was not available as the reviewers had been taken over and they would advise me. Basically, 3 years later.., I'm still getting quarterly updates with all the information about the liquidation and how much money is in te account, how much has been spent... Wages are near the bottom of their list, even tho the receivers get paid monthly at ridiculous wages. Ivr phones numerous times complaining to say if they moved their bums everyone would be paid and there would be no more hassle. But I'm ignored. So here's another 3 year wait for my £2000

 

[persianista]

I was made redundant from retail 3 years ago without notice. Actually I went back after 2 months sick leave on a half day re induction( no idea why as I was the manager and a cover manager came in for te 2nd half of te day) at about 3pm i had a call from the cover manager crying and the fire alarm blasting in the background saying we had all been made redundant and she was told to set off the alarm to get everyone out and to cash up.

Anyway, I got half my wages for that month although no1 was paid the month before I was owed, and. A letter saying the rest was not available as the reviewers had been taken over and they would advise me. Basically, 3 years later.., I'm still getting quarterly updates with all the information about the liquidation and how much money is in te account, how much has been spent... Wages are near the bottom of their list, even tho the receivers get paid monthly at ridiculous wages. Ivr phones numerous times complaining to say if they moved their bums everyone would be paid and there would be no more hassle. But I'm ignored. So here's another 3 year wait for my £2000

Jeez, thats brutal.
My Hubby was made redundant before xmas. There and then. They immediately took his blackberry and laptop, and when he got home there was someone waiting to pick up his car.
He is due contractual notice pay, holiday, redundancy and wages, and has not had a bean yet.

 

[sophiegees]

I know with redundancy there is a government scheme that ensures reduncancy is paid if the company who has gone out of business cannot afford it. Not sure if that applies to wages.

xx

 

[Golden Delish]

Yes you're right that your eldest would be entitled to a week's pay in lieu of notice but I don't understand how the holiday owed would work out at a full week if they've only been there 2 months

ACAS worked it out for me, using the formula set out by the government ( I spose it's actually EU regulations at the end of the day lol!).
I told them how many weeks of work they'd done and then they went through the calculation for me..it's also on their website - let me know if you'd like the link as it's really useful for holiday rules and regs etc

Basically, it was 4.8 days but since an employer can't round down, it has to go up to 5 days:wink2:

 

[Golden Delish]

Jeez, thats brutal.
My Hubby was made redundant before xmas. There and then. They immediately took his blackberry and laptop, and when he got home there was someone waiting to pick up his car.
He is due contractual notice pay, holiday, redundancy and wages, and has not had a bean yet.

Persianista I'm so sorry to hear that. I have nothing but the utmost admiration and respect for you and all that you do on this site. I hope you get all that he's owed with the minimum of fuss and aggravation. My eldest was made "redundant" before Christmas and it's such a blow.

Tomme - I hope you also get all monies owed

 

[Tomme]

Persianista I'm sorry to hear that, it's a awful time of year for it to happen, just keep hounding the company for information. And golden thank you, maybe when I'm 30 a cheque will come haha although I doubt it with the hourly rate the receivers are getting. £1.20 to photo copy per page, I asked if the ink was pure gold at that price!
Things should sort themselves out soon if we keep our chins up and work hard. It's us lot keeping the economy going, and us that will bail the banks out, so come on peeps, get our working socks on and get this country out of debt xoxo

 

[laurakate]

I truely believe that (probably due to what's going on at the moment) too many employers are seemingly too willing to exploit people. I know that sounds really cynical but I have seen all kinds of scams and people not following employment law in the last few years (I have experience of this from working in retail and whilst looking for work).

It makes me feel so down that in a country where so much employment law is put in place, there are so many people who seem to be treated in a way that is at best unfair and at worst undignified

Something needs to change!