Paying high costs for training in a product

[weezie]

Am I being silly or does anyone else think that a number of companies set their training costs to high when they are training you to specifically use their products, lets say a skin care house or a new type of lash extension/perming kit. So in essence you are paying them to sell their product to you! I can understand a small fee to cover the wages of the staff member but surely if you will be buying their kit on top of the course the price the training cost should be reasonable, especially as by doing the training in essence you are committing yourself to using their product. Maybe I have it all wrong, please educate me. :lol: Is it actually in the training rather than product sales where the real money is to be made?

 

[carlyfaye24]

definatly agree with that! i did my lash training with xtreme and for 1 day training and a couple of hours for the assessment it cost me over £500! and then i brought a kit which cost over £500!!
and the reason i went with them is because their glue is so good and i wanted to be able to purchase it and they wont supply you unless you have trained with them!!

 

[weezie]

Carly I can't believe it cost you so much for that, how much do you charge for the treatment? Lets say you charge £70 it would take about 14 lash extensions for you to cover the costs this would be 21 hours work if you could rush them through in 1 and a half hours! That would mean you would need 3 days worth of non stop lash applications (very unlikely). Then you could start making a profit! They know they have you for the training if they won't release their magical glue for less than £500!

 

[loubylou]

definatly agree with that! i did my lash training with xtreme and for 1 day training and a couple of hours for the assessment it cost me over £500! and then i brought a kit which cost over £500!!
and the reason i went with them is because their glue is so good and i wanted to be able to purchase it and they wont supply you unless you have trained with them!!

This is indeed very expensive,
the lash company that i teach for has 2 different kits that you can choose from and the training fee is included in the kits so no extras to pay for, costs far less than what you payed and you have the option of 1 to 1 training at no extra cost,
adhesive is fab too
(trust me i have tested them all out)

like anything else costs vary as to who you train with.

 

[Curly Bamboo]

Funny... I was just sitting here doing a spreadsheet of my LVL and lashes costings.

For me it was not the training cost but the starter kits which were pricey. Although I really love the LVL treatment, I was annoyed when the starter kit included 20 treatments. The treatment gets oxided in about 3-4 months so how can you promote so quickly initially even if you factored in the first few treatments you do to practice FOC.

Anyway I managed to get through 16 in 4 months ad had to throw away the rest. Not happy.

Nouveau has now reduced the minimum order of LVL kits from 10 to 5 which is much more reasonable and realistic!

It took me 11 LVL treatments (two of which were free) to recoupe my costs.

 

[bombini]

I haven't trained in lash extensions as the training costs plus the cost of the kit put me off. For starters I know id have to do quite few sets before I felt confident in charging full price so id waste quite a bit of time and money before id even got the clients in !

Aside from that I have never had to pay for training for a skincare brand and I wouldn't choose a brand that did charge considering most ranges have a fairly hefty start up, to add training costs, plus your hotel and travel etc would probably bankrupt most therapists before they'd even got off the ground.

I had to pay for my Jane Iredale training and although the course itself wasn't that expensive, think one was £50 and the other £75 plus vat I had to pay for my travel costs down to London and the hotel was over £100 per night. My opening order was over £500 and within my first three months I spent over a £1000 in total with them so I thought to charge for training on top of that was a bit excessive !

 

[weezie]

Exactly Bombini that's my point, Gerards did not charge me ontop of my products to start with my skin care, if they had I would have been very put off after spending £2500 with them. I feel some of these companies are missing the point. They may increase their client base tenfold if they offer a reasonable entry point.

 

[Curly Bamboo]

And in addition they should give us free marketing displays!

 

[Martin Duffy]

I always ask about the training before taking on a range, with Decleor, St Tropez & CACI I got free training places for a number of people. If you have to have the training to properly carry out the treatment & correctly advise on the products then the training should be included in the initial start-up costs or at least affordable. In the long run it benefits the company's image & sales.

 

[Violet Star]

I do think lash companies charge allot of their kits well the ones i found charge tons and thats without the Kit Which i think is daylight robbery!

See at first i thought CND training was a bit pricey but its so worth it! As you get the kit with it and all.

But lash extensions should come with the kit for the 500 they charge!!

 

[cabinkel]

I have to say that my lash extension training, (1 to 1 and at my salon) was included in my kit, maybe I was lucky!! Although that was back in october 2006. Recently, I have been looking at various body treatments, and find that their training seems to be expensive, some about £150 for a day, on top of kit price! It does seem a bit much if the kits are costly!

 

[weezie]

I recently drew this point to the attention of a company after discussion over the fact that in order to make it worth while the training would need to be much cheaper, especially as I did a similar thing already and so didn't really need to retrain but would prefer their technique. I haven't heard back from my last email but they did say they would not be able to discount the training. Well a girls gotta try! I don't know how we can stop this practice unless we all refuse to pay such high prices.

 

[cabinkel]

I recently drew this point to the attention of a company after discussion over the fact that in order to make it worth while the training would need to be much cheaper, especially as I did a similar thing already and so didn't really need to retrain but would prefer their technique. I haven't heard back from my last email but they did say they would not be able to discount the training. Well a girls gotta try! I don't know how we can stop this practice unless we all refuse to pay such high prices.

Good for you!!
Trouble is i suppose, the companies know that most therapists etc, would only want to take on the product line with the training, as that is a professional approach. Im not sure what we can do to stop it. As you say, im happy to pay AN amount to train, but it sometimes feels that certain companies are squeezing us a little tight, lol.
Saying that, I have found that most good skincare companies offer free training with their start up kits.

 

[Bonkers]

i agree that training can be costly but if it was cheaper then absolutly everyone would be doing the training in order to make extra money. and if everyone was doing lash extensions and courses were more available then we would be complaining that there were too many people doing it so not enough customers to go round. am i making sense? lol.

I totally agree and as a professional it does hit me in the pocket for my courses but i would rather pay for excellent training and a good kit than get something i cant work with and walk away feeling like i never learnt anything.

we all know that there are cheap nail companies out there, would we prefer it if there were other cheap training courses out there giving people certificates and letting them loose on the public.

i hope i made some sort of sense. but yes i do agree its expensive but worth it x

 

[bexi]

I completly agree kits + training - wowsa! I'm about to do the nouveau lashes course and although it is expensive (no where near £1000 though) I am so excited to do it. I chose them over cheaper places because of customer service but also the training is in Milton Keynes. Although the course is expensive its so close - if I did some I'd be travelling to Essex or up North!

Just a quicky Martin St. Tropez now charge for training unless you buy a booth as the reps no longer do it on the road. They do some some of qualification now I think you have to do manual, spray and business - CRAZY!!!

B xxx

 

[angel fingers]

what an interesting debate this is shaping up to be, and good to see all the differing points of view.

i guess it comes down to feeling that we are not being ripped off.

i love learning new stuff but i'm always aware that i am so busy with nails already that if i paid for kit/training/and accomodation for a course that i would simply not have the time available to be able to recoup the costs even if i did have the demand.

this is what has kept me back from training in lash extensions. i think i'd enjoy doing them coz i like fiddly work. but i would be peeved that its a treatment i couldnt perform on myself and as i said i wouldnt have time to earn anything from it.

i think that is a good point about exclusivity but i also see that it could be difficult for therapists to afford.

when i train people in nails i base the cost on what i could make from doing nails on clients in that amount of time so i'm no worse off.
i am not very business minded and wish i had more knowhow in this area.

 

[bexi]

when i train people in nails i base the cost on what i could make from doing nails on clients in that amount of time so i'm no worse off.
i am not very business minded and wish i had more knowhow in this area.

I think this is the exact attitude that big companies should learn from :green:

 

[cabinkel]

I think that what the comapnies should do is compromise somewhere in the middle. For example, they charge £500 for a kit and £250 for training, why not charge £625 for the start up kit that includes the training? That way they are happy we are happy, lol! I think that reputable companies should be happy to train on a start up kit as surely, if untrained therapists were out there using the products incorrectly, the comapny could get negative press. (im not talking generaly untrained people here, i mean people who have done their relevant beauty therapy/nail tech etc qualifications and want the product knowledge/application etc training)
Maybe i look at life far too simply:green::green:

 

[angel fingers]

I think that what the comapnies should do is compromise somewhere in the middle. For example, they charge £500 for a kit and £250 for training, why not charge £625 for the start up kit that includes the training? That way they are happy we are happy, lol! I think that reputable companies should be happy to train on a start up kit as surely, if untrained therapists were out there using the products incorrectly, the comapny could get negative press. (im not talking generaly untrained people here, i mean people who have done their relevant beauty therapy/nail tech etc qualifications and want the product knowledge/application etc training)
Maybe i look at life far too simply:green::green:

i agree.

you do have to consider whether the trainers are independent though.

like me for example, i dont sell the lechat products that i train people to use, i just contract to the distributor. so i cant make any money from the sale of the product so cant reduce my training fee. but then i dont go overboard in the cost anyway.i wonder if other companies work like this.

i definately feel that those who supply and train could work something out as like you say its in their own best interest.
its a complicated issue isnt it ?

 

[weezie]

I think the problem is that the costings are targeted at large commercial salon chains and also that there is a high level of price across the board so no one will reduce when they know people will pay.

Also you can't get insurance unless you take the official course rather than be trained up by a fellow therapist or learn yourself. Yes I know it is very important to follow health and safety guidelines, but most experienced therapists, lets say over 6 years of training, can read and learn from any safety info that could be included in the package. I know that when you are first starting out you need lots of guidance but after 6 or so years you have lots of experience. When I finished training I knew only say 50% about each treatment compared to what I do now, as it is just not covered in the CIBTAC and CIDESCO courses I did, which was meant to give me one of the best qualifications. How I practice now I learnt from doing the treatments. But this is probably a different thread.

I think the point I am trying to make is that it would not take an experienced therapist very long to get to grips with a new skill and practice would make perfect so the training may seem really really expensive when they are bringing a lot of their knowledge to the day unlike someone who has never done any training in the field before. I would like to see one price for an experienced therapist who has knowledge of contraindications and hygiene and patch testing so could quickly get to grips with this side of it and one for someone who has done nothing in the beauty industry before.