Just a heads up for anyone creating a business name. Visit the IPO website Intellectual Property Office - Trade marks - find trade marks to see if your chosen name has been trademarked. However I will point out something... search each word and play around with the name. I searched my whole business name, three words, the website says that it searches ALL words that have been inputted. Guess what? It doesn't! I called IPO about this they told me to search my name with no spaces, still nothing. I was then told to search each word and bingo it came up.
Trademark Solicitor Letter
- Thread starter happyfeet
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Verve Designs
TAFNO Extensionize
I think the main issue/problem is that "beautique" is a made up word (i.e. it's not in the dictionary). This is why you'll see the word "Apple" in lots and lots of business names, despite one of the worlds biggest brands having that word in it's name.
Again, I repeat- if you're unsure- get it off the web!
Also (and again, I'm not a solicitor) the only people who can "fine" you is a court of law. Anything else is a bill you have a choice over.
No I agree, I'm just pointing out that for the IPO to claim that they search all words including the word Beautique it is some what misleading when it comes back with no record of Beautique being trademarked. So I want people to be aware that a more thorough search is needed.
I'm just waiting for my files from you and in the process of having a jolly old time amending everything. :green::hug:
BannerPenguin
Well-Known Member
How you getting on with this any updates so far?
What if you were a registered Ltd company???
How and would this affect you?
Being a limited company doesn't change this.
willowrose
Well-Known Member
I don't consider myself "morally disgusting" & my business has sent cease & desist letters to those infringing on my trademarks.
I have paid handsomely for the right to protect my brand. If someone is sloppy & does no research before investing in a name which they have no right to use then I don't think it is unreasonable for me to say "please stop immediately".
If you are going to start a business you should be acting in a professional manner. Part of that surely is investigating all legalities.
Real words can of course be trademarked; not just newly created words. Apple is trademarked just to correct the misinformation supplied above.
Trademark infringement is the theft of intellectual property. It seems strange to me that the company who is stealing is not unethical but the company who is being stolen from is "morally disgusting" - just because it is bigger?
I don't think any normal person wants another to suffer hardship. The company haven't personally attacked anyone. They have merely requested their lawyers deal with a legal issue involving another business.
I have paid handsomely for the right to protect my brand. If someone is sloppy & does no research before investing in a name which they have no right to use then I don't think it is unreasonable for me to say "please stop immediately".
If you are going to start a business you should be acting in a professional manner. Part of that surely is investigating all legalities.
Real words can of course be trademarked; not just newly created words. Apple is trademarked just to correct the misinformation supplied above.
Trademark infringement is the theft of intellectual property. It seems strange to me that the company who is stealing is not unethical but the company who is being stolen from is "morally disgusting" - just because it is bigger?
I don't think any normal person wants another to suffer hardship. The company haven't personally attacked anyone. They have merely requested their lawyers deal with a legal issue involving another business.
Verve Designs
TAFNO Extensionize
It's not morally wrong to protect your brand. Indeed, it's integral to my business as a designer, I'd be hugely unhappy if people copied my designs (which they indeed have). Nor is it morally wrong to ask people to cease and desist from using a brand which is trademarked (knowing full well the business implications and costs of that alone- which may force an insecure business under).
What I do find a little distasteful is asking a small business entity to pay a bill of £300 for it. If the infringement was done cynically to align themselves, or "pass off" as, with the existing brand in order gain commercial gain- then yes, clearly "unethical". But in this specific case I'd would suggest that it's done entirely innocently, if naively.
Cease and desist would suffice in my book.
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willowrose
Well-Known Member
It is customary for the party acting in bad faith to cover the legal costs of resolution.
Cease & desist letters cost money. £300 sounds a fair figure. Why should the wronged party cover this cost?
Cease & desist letters cost money. £300 sounds a fair figure. Why should the wronged party cover this cost?
You know what I did write a longer reply to this but I'm not here to defend myself other than to say I would not use words such as sloppy or theft to describe myself or my business, nor would I guess the pages upon pages of other businesses on Google who have used this word within their company name also. Each to their own opinion of course.
Verve Designs
TAFNO Extensionize
I've sent cease and desist emails out personally to people who have "copied" a design of mine. Some of whom have ignored them (the majority of whom were based in India and Russia), most of whom have complied straight away and apologised.
I suppose I have an emotional response to this, as someone (and whoever this is will know who I'm referring to, so sorry!) who got an email at 3.40am this morning from a design client who had been crying all night as she's a single parent nail technician who can barely afford to re-print her price lists, let alone pay a £300 bill for making a cock-up and choosing a name for her business she ought not to have.
We broadly agree- I wouldn't be in business if it weren't for copyright law. But there are ways and means to go about things.
p.s. Yes, I know Apple is trademarked- the point I was making was the word "Apple" will also appear in other trademarks in conjunction with other words. The test for infringement is "will it cause market confusion?". If you're selling computers and your business is called "apple"- you're buggered. If you're called "Johns Apple" and you're selling apples, you're not.
You can have a "McDonalds Hardware Store" for example. Despite McDonalds being one of the most litigious companies on the planet.
So, not misinformation in the strictest sense. Just not explained very well perhaps
Not sure how useful this is to the OP though!
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willowrose
Well-Known Member
You may not like the term theft but it is accurate.
Sloppy isn't the nicest terminology but again is accurate. I am happy to change it to "an extremely casual business approach".
I certainly didn't like the term "morally disgusting" which surely is worse & totally inaccurate yet got numerous hearts. It offended me so I commented.
I commented in a generalised fashion. I responded & addressed a post not penned by yourself. I would say the thread has evolved beyond your situation & is now speaking in wider terms of what people consider unethical business practices. I have personal experience in this field & object to being deemed "morally disgusting" - a pretty hefty insult no?
I don't think citing pages of ill informed people you've found on google is the greatest defence. I think it just highlights how many people go into business without sufficient knowledge.
willowrose
Well-Known Member
Sad as that is if we are really talking in business terms then it doesn't sound like a viable business does it?
In terms of cease & desist letters. If you outsource & have a solicitor take charge of all trademark issues as I do then you end up paying quite a lot of money to them. No accountant or business person would think it a good idea to absorb legal costs caused by a third party's wrong doing. It is perfectly accepted business practice to make them cover the costs. I really don't think it would be feasible to do it any other way.
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Verve Designs
TAFNO Extensionize
Well- I'm going to duck out of this discussion after this post, as I agree that it's not terribly helpful.
But, I was referring to this matter- not you. I apologise if you felt offended, but It wasn't aimed at you at all. As I said, I've sent my own cease and desist letters/emails.
I used the term "morally disgusting" as it was my opinion and I'm not sure how my own personal opinion can be "accurate" or not. It's how I feel, and you're perfectly entitled to form your own opinion. Perhaps our morals differ slightly.
I was the only person who used that phrase - so I can only assume you were referring to me.
I'm not a copyright lawyer, so of course I Googled if Apple own that trademark. And nothing of what I've said is inaccurate. Do you want a list of company names with the word "apple" in it? I'm sure it'd be pretty boring reading.
"Sad as that is if we are really talking in business terms then it doesn't sound like a viable business does it?" Well, that's a decision for her and her rent this month. And yes, it's sad - she's someone I've known for three years and is lovely. So, no, we're not actually really talking in business terms all the time.
Anyway- I hope anyone involved gets sorted. As I said we broadly agree on a lot of things- but we'll agree to disagree on a couple of points.
I'm back to listening to the cricket and working
But, I was referring to this matter- not you. I apologise if you felt offended, but It wasn't aimed at you at all. As I said, I've sent my own cease and desist letters/emails.
I used the term "morally disgusting" as it was my opinion and I'm not sure how my own personal opinion can be "accurate" or not. It's how I feel, and you're perfectly entitled to form your own opinion. Perhaps our morals differ slightly.
I was the only person who used that phrase - so I can only assume you were referring to me.
I'm not a copyright lawyer, so of course I Googled if Apple own that trademark. And nothing of what I've said is inaccurate. Do you want a list of company names with the word "apple" in it? I'm sure it'd be pretty boring reading.
"Sad as that is if we are really talking in business terms then it doesn't sound like a viable business does it?" Well, that's a decision for her and her rent this month. And yes, it's sad - she's someone I've known for three years and is lovely. So, no, we're not actually really talking in business terms all the time.
Anyway- I hope anyone involved gets sorted. As I said we broadly agree on a lot of things- but we'll agree to disagree on a couple of points.
I'm back to listening to the cricket and working
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And that my lovely is where I bow out of this conversation...
Ruth Mills
Well-Known Member
It's a tricky one, isn't it! I remember a similar thread on here back in December 2010, where one of my own clients received a similar letter - although she had been using the word in question ("sassy") for a number of years prior to the trademark in question being registered. Although, in that case, it was a small salon on the Hampshire/Surrey border who had registered the trademark, as opposed to some bigwig with several company directorships and a huge turnover.
I guess, sadly, the bottom line is that unless you have been trading using that name for some time before the trademark registration, then the company in question are within their rights to stop you using the trademark though. Although charging you £300 or whatever for sending you a cease and desist letter does smack of being rather ruthlessly capitalist to me (given their huge turnover) - and I really do think they should be *very* ashamed of themselves for doing that! Particularly as you will have been using the name "Beautique" in all innocence, without realising that it had been trademarked by some bigwig back in 1999.
So saying though, I have nothing against trademarks in general - as I own 3 myself - "Megtek" (my main IT company), "Salon Guinea Pig" (a website that I run), and "Superdus" (a new company I am setting up to do body painting). But I'd never charge someone for sending them a cease & desist letter if anyone *did* try and abuse one of my trademarks... after all, it would only take me a few minutes to knock one up in Word, and 60p for a stamp or whatever!
I guess, sadly, the bottom line is that unless you have been trading using that name for some time before the trademark registration, then the company in question are within their rights to stop you using the trademark though. Although charging you £300 or whatever for sending you a cease and desist letter does smack of being rather ruthlessly capitalist to me (given their huge turnover) - and I really do think they should be *very* ashamed of themselves for doing that! Particularly as you will have been using the name "Beautique" in all innocence, without realising that it had been trademarked by some bigwig back in 1999.
So saying though, I have nothing against trademarks in general - as I own 3 myself - "Megtek" (my main IT company), "Salon Guinea Pig" (a website that I run), and "Superdus" (a new company I am setting up to do body painting). But I'd never charge someone for sending them a cease & desist letter if anyone *did* try and abuse one of my trademarks... after all, it would only take me a few minutes to knock one up in Word, and 60p for a stamp or whatever!
Ruth Mills
Well-Known Member
Everyone has to start somewhere. Even Sir Alan Sugar started out small - and I'm sure that you in particular would be among the first to agree that it's far better for a single mum to run a small business as a nail technician than to be sitting at home claiming benefits!!!
We're talking about an innocent mistake made by a single mum here - which is a world away from the people who make a fortune by selling fake products that use someone else's brand name - e.g. fake Gucci or Jimmy Choo or Louboutin or whatever! So, while I have no problem at all with brands like that wanting to protect their reputation by stopping cheap knock-off fakes, such heavy-handed behaviour against a single mum (for whom £300 is a bloody huge amount of money) makes me want to do unspeakably sadistic things to a Voodoo doll of the person responsible - as I absolutely hate and detest the way they are conducting themselves - and to me, they are yet another example of what is so very, very wrong with Britain today!!!
SamanthaA
Well-Known Member
Who is your insurance call them you may be covered for this
Sent from my GT-N7000 using SalonGeek mobile app
Sent from my GT-N7000 using SalonGeek mobile app
DazzlingDetails
Well-Known Member
WARNING: we are aware that companies and individuals are sending misleading invoices to applicants for, and owners of, intellectual property rights.
Taken from IPo website
Did a little research today as I trade under the name, and found this on the Intellectual Property Ownership Website xxx
Taken from IPo website
Did a little research today as I trade under the name, and found this on the Intellectual Property Ownership Website xxx
Ruth Mills
Well-Known Member
Aye, I have received some of these in the past too regarding trademarks I've been in the process of registering - although these tend to be for unofficial directories of trademarks that don't carry any legal weight (unlike having a trademark registered with the UK Intellectual Property Office) - and have just ended up satisfying the appetite of the shredder in the computer room...
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