Lightening black hair

[Natasha.Rose]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and require some help - I am a mobile hairdresser so it's nice to get some advice.

My client has black hair (home dye) with about 80% white hair on the t-section area only and more 10% across the rest of the head. She is looking to go a bit lighter - we agreed the best shade would be around a base 5 as she would like get away from harsh regrowth.

We agreed that the best route was to do a full head of highlights to start steering away from harsh regrowth, lifting to about a 5-6 base. I then plan to apply a full head application of 5.1 to tone the lights and get more of a natural brown colour.

I was wondering if anyone had any other techniques for this as I am a bit concerned about the rest of the roots through the hair in between the lights. I don't want any banding or root glow in comparison to the black hair.

Do you think the lights will be enough of a breakup of the root to eliminate the concern for banding? Would you just use a 5.1 as a toner rather than an all over application?

I'd appreciate anyone's feedback


Thanks!

 

[cassies97]

Sorry but I don't see the point in doing full head highlights?

 

[Natasha.Rose]

Oh okay, whys that? What would you suggest?

 

[cassies97]

Oh okay, whys that? What would you suggest?

I wouldn't promise a 5, considering it's box colour. Have you or do you plan to do an incompatibility test?

What colour line do you use?

Welcome to salongeek by the way[emoji4]

 

[Natasha.Rose]

I have done a incompatibility and I have also done a strand test and the lift is definitely possible. I lifted the strand and then applied my base 5.1 and got a really nice warm natural brown which my client is happy with. My client has also had 2-3 keratin treatments in the last 12-18 months so the condition is fine. It's more for application of the 5.1 that I asking for advice for really. Unless you have success stories with another way of breaking up the black and lifting more gradually than a full colour bath without foiling?

 

[Natasha.Rose]

Sorry I use Affrinage

 

[Steven Robertson]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and require some help - I am a mobile hairdresser so it's nice to get some advice.

My client has black hair (home dye) with about 80% white hair on the t-section area only and more 10% across the rest of the head. She is looking to go a bit lighter - we agreed the best shade would be around a base 5 as she would like get away from harsh regrowth.

We agreed that the best route was to do a full head of highlights to start steering away from harsh regrowth, lifting to about a 5-6 base. I then plan to apply a full head application of 5.1 to tone the lights and get more of a natural brown colour.

I was wondering if anyone had any other techniques for this as I am a bit concerned about the rest of the roots through the hair in between the lights. I don't want any banding or root glow in comparison to the black hair.

Do you think the lights will be enough of a breakup of the root to eliminate the concern for banding? Would you just use a 5.1 as a toner rather than an all over application?

I'd appreciate anyone's feedback


Thanks!

Hi!

I do this process probably once a week and have it down to a science. I also like to do full highlights to take black hair lighter. It's easier to control warmth and especially fadage. I've attached two photos. The first is after her first visit. The second is after her next visit. She started with 8 weeks level 6 regrowth and the rest black box color (as she had done years prior). I bolded key points in each process.

First visit. I did a full highlight first with bleach and 30 vol. After all the highlights, I went through and hit her regrowth with a level 3 and 10 vol between the foils. I do a level 3 and not a 5 (yet), because there won't be enough lightness in the hair in the end to blend out enough of the black and it would look like a hot root of I did a 5. So a 3 is slightly lighter than black, but a transition lighter from black. And a level 3 will leave no band whatsoever! Assuming you've added enough highlights to break up solidity. After highlights process, I glaze color over the damp hair, usually a level 5 green/ash, sometimes a 5 at the root, 6/green/ash through the ends, if the ends happen to magically get light enough. That's the first visit. A softer, dark brown. Not quite light enough. But no little to no raw warmth. And that's so important!!! As shown here:

Second visit. 6 weeks later. Same process. Highlights again (with 30 vol), trying to pick up more black moreso than the previous highlights we did. But I don't focus on taking too much time, just want to get the foils in. This time, I hit her newgrowth with a level 5 with 10 vol (too keep it slightly deeper), since there will now be a billion highlights that will for sure be a level 5, and some will even go lighter (if any previous highlights get rehighlighted). I glaze the new highlights again with a 5 green/ash at her base and a 6 (sometimes 6/7 green/ash) through her ends for 15 mins for the warmth to chill out) on damp hair. This now creates a level 5 root, that yes, has some now black "lowlights" falling through it (minimally), but since the eye will always pay attention to the lightest part of the haircolor (your new level 6, 6/7 highlighted mids/ends), the black lowlights will simply resemble shadow, and not color. Shown below:

And voila!! A slightly dimensional medium brown with very little warmth, and a small likelihood that it will fade out warm. I used colorpHlex in her formation to maintain health, even though I wasn't being overly aggressive. I wouldn't personally use Olaplex in this particular case (although I do in other cases!), so to ensure that I got the lift I wanted in a timely matter for my schedule's sake, however, that would be an option as well! If you're stopping at a level 5 though, there's no point in my opinion on using any additive really, if only to upsale. I chose to use one because we will be continuing to lighten her over her next 3 appointments. Also, any pieces that happened to go lighter will fade out to an even prettier lighter brown/dark blonde over a couple weeks and add some way pretty dimension. At that point, you can just start retouching her root with a 5 and 10 vol or a semi-perm 5 to maintain and cover the highlights completely to make it one dimensional on her next visit, if a more solid color is preferred.

Hope that helps!!

Steven Robertson
www.stevenrobertsonhair.com
Insta: @stevenrobertsonhair

 

[Claire Olsen]

Hi!

I do this process probably once a week and have it down to a science. I also like to do full highlights to take black hair lighter. It's easier to control warmth and especially fadage. I've attached two photos. The first is after her first visit. The second is after her next visit. She started with 8 weeks level 6 regrowth and the rest black box color (as she had done years prior). I bolded key points in each process.

First visit. I did a full highlight first with bleach and 30 vol. After all the highlights, I went through and hit her regrowth with a level 3 and 10 vol between the foils. I do a level 3 and not a 5 (yet), because there won't be enough lightness in the hair in the end to blend out enough of the black and it would look like a hot root of I did a 5. So a 3 is slightly lighter than black, but a transition lighter from black. And a level 3 will leave no band whatsoever! Assuming you've added enough highlights to break up solidity. After highlights process, I glaze color over the damp hair, usually a level 5 green/ash, sometimes a 5 at the root, 6/green/ash through the ends, if the ends happen to magically get light enough. That's the first visit. A softer, dark brown. Not quite light enough. But no little to no raw warmth. And that's so important!!! As shown here:
View attachment 192183

Second visit. 6 weeks later. Same process. Highlights again (with 30 vol), trying to pick up more black moreso than the previous highlights we did. But I don't focus on taking too much time, just want to get the foils in. This time, I hit her newgrowth with a level 5 with 10 vol (too keep it slightly deeper), since there will now be a billion highlights that will for sure be a level 5, and some will even go lighter (if any previous highlights get rehighlighted). I glaze the new highlights again with a 5 green/ash at her base and a 6 (sometimes 6/7 green/ash) through her ends for 15 mins for the warmth to chill out) on damp hair. This now creates a level 5 root, that yes, has some now black "lowlights" falling through it (minimally), but since the eye will always pay attention to the lightest part of the haircolor (your new level 6, 6/7 highlighted mids/ends), the black lowlights will simply resemble shadow, and not color. Shown below:

View attachment 192184

And voila!! A slightly dimensional medium brown with very little warmth, and a small likelihood that it will fade out warm. I used colorpHlex in her formation to maintain health, even though I wasn't being overly aggressive. I wouldn't personally use Olaplex in this particular case (although I do in other cases!), so to ensure that I got the lift I wanted in a timely matter for my schedule's sake, however, that would be an option as well! If you're stopping at a level 5 though, there's no point in my opinion on using any additive really, if only to upsale. I chose to use one because we will be continuing to lighten her over her next 3 appointments. Also, any pieces that happened to go lighter will fade out to an even prettier lighter brown/dark blonde over a couple weeks and add some way pretty dimension. At that point, you can just start retouching her root with a 5 and 10 vol or a semi-perm 5 to maintain and cover the highlights completely to make it one dimensional on her next visit, if a more solid color is preferred.

Hope that helps!!

Steven Robertson
www.stevenrobertsonhair.com
Insta: @stevenrobertsonhair

Great job!

 

[Natasha.Rose]

Hi!

I do this process probably once a week and have it down to a science. I also like to do full highlights to take black hair lighter. It's easier to control warmth and especially fadage. I've attached two photos. The first is after her first visit. The second is after her next visit. She started with 8 weeks level 6 regrowth and the rest black box color (as she had done years prior). I bolded key points in each process.

First visit. I did a full highlight first with bleach and 30 vol. After all the highlights, I went through and hit her regrowth with a level 3 and 10 vol between the foils. I do a level 3 and not a 5 (yet), because there won't be enough lightness in the hair in the end to blend out enough of the black and it would look like a hot root of I did a 5. So a 3 is slightly lighter than black, but a transition lighter from black. And a level 3 will leave no band whatsoever! Assuming you've added enough highlights to break up solidity. After highlights process, I glaze color over the damp hair, usually a level 5 green/ash, sometimes a 5 at the root, 6/green/ash through the ends, if the ends happen to magically get light enough. That's the first visit. A softer, dark brown. Not quite light enough. But no little to no raw warmth. And that's so important!!! As shown here:
View attachment 192183

Second visit. 6 weeks later. Same process. Highlights again (with 30 vol), trying to pick up more black moreso than the previous highlights we did. But I don't focus on taking too much time, just want to get the foils in. This time, I hit her newgrowth with a level 5 with 10 vol (too keep it slightly deeper), since there will now be a billion highlights that will for sure be a level 5, and some will even go lighter (if any previous highlights get rehighlighted). I glaze the new highlights again with a 5 green/ash at her base and a 6 (sometimes 6/7 green/ash) through her ends for 15 mins for the warmth to chill out) on damp hair. This now creates a level 5 root, that yes, has some now black "lowlights" falling through it (minimally), but since the eye will always pay attention to the lightest part of the haircolor (your new level 6, 6/7 highlighted mids/ends), the black lowlights will simply resemble shadow, and not color. Shown below:

View attachment 192184

And voila!! A slightly dimensional medium brown with very little warmth, and a small likelihood that it will fade out warm. I used colorpHlex in her formation to maintain health, even though I wasn't being overly aggressive. I wouldn't personally use Olaplex in this particular case (although I do in other cases!), so to ensure that I got the lift I wanted in a timely matter for my schedule's sake, however, that would be an option as well! If you're stopping at a level 5 though, there's no point in my opinion on using any additive really, if only to upsale. I chose to use one because we will be continuing to lighten her over her next 3 appointments. Also, any pieces that happened to go lighter will fade out to an even prettier lighter brown/dark blonde over a couple weeks and add some way pretty dimension. At that point, you can just start retouching her root with a 5 and 10 vol or a semi-perm 5 to maintain and cover the highlights completely to make it one dimensional on her next visit, if a more solid color is preferred.

Hope that helps!!

Steven Robertson
www.stevenrobertsonhair.com
Insta: @stevenrobertsonhair

Hi Steven,

Thank you for your advice!! This is exactly the reassurance I needed because I did not want banding or root glow! It would be a shame to do all this work and then the roots are the only thing you see!

As like your client, we are looking to go lighter over several appointments until my client decides she is happy with the level of lift we have achieved. I find this way of lighting softer on the hair and more predictable than doing a colour bath as you can control the situation a lot better.

Further to this, with regards to the highlighting, with her regrowth area, did you find that the roots lifted to a base 10/11 white blonde and then more of a orange towards the mid-lengths and ends? If so was the base 5/greenash on damp hair enough to tackle this?
Or would you suggest doing a lower peroxide on the root, switching to a higher volume on mid-lengths and ends in the same packet? - I don't want to be tackling a banding in this case either!

Also, with your base 5& 6 green ash would you leave this on for a permanent colour development time or treat it like a toner and just watch it until your happy with the tone?

Thank you for your help and advice, it is very much appreciated as I said in my original post, I am a mobile hairdresser and its nice to find some support when you just a little unsure on which route to take. Your clients hair looks fab! Exactly the kind of results I'm looking for.

Many thanks,

Natasha

 

[AcidPerm]

If you use Affinage, why not use their colour reducer to get rid of the box dye build up and go from there?

I think applying full head of highlights over several sessions is the equivalent of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Natasha.Rose]

If you use Affinage, why not use their colour reducer to get rid of the box dye build up and go from there?

I think applying full head of highlights over several sessions is the equivalent of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, but that's just my opinion.

Hi there! Thanks for your advice.

Completely agree! But the reason I wouldn't use this route is I am not a huge fan of colour erasers. My manager when I was training always did colour corrections with bleach so most of my experience is with bleach rather than erasers

Also, my client is looking for more of a subtle gradual change as this would be the first time she has had her hair coloured by a hairdresser.

Thank you for your feedback though much appreciated!

 

[RED STAR]

Agree with Steven......except I'd probably do 'scatter lights', rather than a full set of lights.
Firstly, cost to client....it's not always financially 'do able' for the client, secondly, less trauma to the hair.
A scattering of highlights throughout, is usually enough to give a lighter hue to the hair.
AND DON'T FORGET THE OLAPLEX!

 

[Steven Robertson]

Hi Steven,

Thank you for your advice!! This is exactly the reassurance I needed because I did not want banding or root glow! It would be a shame to do all this work and then the roots are the only thing you see!

As like your client, we are looking to go lighter over several appointments until my client decides she is happy with the level of lift we have achieved. I find this way of lighting softer on the hair and more predictable than doing a colour bath as you can control the situation a lot better.

Further to this, with regards to the highlighting, with her regrowth area, did you find that the roots lifted to a base 10/11 white blonde and then more of a orange towards the mid-lengths and ends? If so was the base 5/greenash on damp hair enough to tackle this?
Or would you suggest doing a lower peroxide on the root, switching to a higher volume on mid-lengths and ends in the same packet? - I don't want to be tackling a banding in this case either!

Also, with your base 5& 6 green ash would you leave this on for a permanent colour development time or treat it like a toner and just watch it until your happy with the tone?

Thank you for your help and advice, it is very much appreciated as I said in my original post, I am a mobile hairdresser and its nice to find some support when you just a little unsure on which route to take. Your clients hair looks fab! Exactly the kind of results I'm looking for.

Many thanks,

Natasha

I would keep the highlight off her new growth, and apply it only to the previously colored hair, to avoid exactly what you said. Plus, I like all my clients to have a natural looking root. Rarely do my clients have a highlight that goes all the way up to their scalp.

 

[Steven Robertson]

If you use Affinage, why not use their colour reducer to get rid of the box dye build up and go from there?

I think applying full head of highlights over several sessions is the equivalent of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, but that's just my opinion.

Even if you use a color reducer all over and then cover it afterwards to neutralize it, the color will fade back to warmth, but in this case, an way solid warmth. That's not pleasant for anyone I don't feel like!! Faster, yes. But in the long run, not as pretty. Personal opinion! You're probably better with color removers than I

 

[mjmhair]

Steven...
I like this process. Great reply...
One question though. If you plan on taking her lighter anyways why a 3 with 10 vol as opposed to a demi? and are you just kind of hitting her regrowth and smudging it down to blend?[/QUOTE]

Hi!


First visit. I did a full highlight first with bleach and 30 vol. After all the highlights, I went through and hit her regrowth with a level 3 and 10 vol between the foils. I do a level 3 and not a 5 (yet), because there won't be enough lightness in the hair in the end to blend out enough of the black and it would look like a hot root of I did a 5. So a 3 is slightly lighter than black, but a transition lighter from black. And a level 3 will leave no band whatsoever! Assuming you've added enough highlights to break up solidity.

 

[AcidPerm]

Even if you use a color reducer all over and then cover it afterwards to neutralize it, the color will fade back to warmth, but in this case, an way solid warmth. That's not pleasant for anyone I don't feel like!! Faster, yes. But in the long run, not as pretty. Personal opinion! You're probably better with color removers than I

The client wants brown hair.
She has 80% white so, yes, I wouldn't be too concerned with the natural hair colour being too warm after fading.

 

[Steven Robertson]

The client wants brown hair.
She has 80% white so, yes, I wouldn't be too concerned with the natural hair colour being too warm after fading.

It wouldn't be the natural color that's the concern, it would be the color deposited over the hair after the color remover has been used. I would assume, but could totally be wrong her so correct me if I am, that the color remover at best will remove black box color light enough to be orange'ish, but probably red/orange? Then depositing a level 5 over that would make it pretty for the time being. But once that level 5 begins to fade over the next few weeks, that orange glow will begin to pop back through.

Or maybe color removers are far more efficient than I give credit?

 

[Steven Robertson]

Steven...
I like this process. Great reply...
One question though. If you plan on taking her lighter anyways why a 3 with 10 vol as opposed to a demi? and are you just kind of hitting her regrowth and smudging it down to blend?

[/QUOTE]
I start using semi-permenants at level 5/6 and above. I found that most people with black hair are usually quite light naturally, and using a semi-permenant level 3 appeared to translucent and soft. So when I'm in those dark levels, I find the opacity of permenant color to work better in my favor, since I'm essentially adding a hot root but don't want it to appear that way. If they're naturally dark dark, I would consider using a semi perm 3, because their natural darkness has its own existing opaqueness.

 

[AcidPerm]

It wouldn't be the natural color that's the concern, it would be the color deposited over the hair after the color remover has been used. I would assume, but could totally be wrong her so correct me if I am, that the color remover at best will remove black box color light enough to be orange'ish, but probably red/orange? Then depositing a level 5 over that would make it pretty for the time being. But once that level 5 begins to fade over the next few weeks, that orange glow will begin to pop back through.

Or maybe color removers are far more efficient than I give credit?

The remover breaks down the artificial colour pigments so they can be washed away leaving the natural colour pigment behind plus the peroxide in the box dye will have lightened the natural hair slightly anyway. If she's got a high percentage of white underneath the box dye, you're going to need some reddy orange pigment underneath the brown otherwise it will be muddy khaki looking rather than a soft ash so I really don't think there's going to be an orange glow issue.

When people seem reluctant to try colour removers, I sometimes wonder if they've only used bleached based ones?

 

[Steven Robertson]

The remover breaks down the artificial colour pigments so they can be washed away leaving the natural colour pigment behind plus the peroxide in the box dye will have lightened the natural hair slightly anyway. If she's got a high percentage of white underneath the box dye, you're going to need some reddy orange pigment underneath the brown otherwise it will be muddy khaki looking rather than a soft ash so I really don't think there's going to be an orange glow issue.

When people seem reluctant to try colour removers, I sometimes wonder if they've only used bleached based ones?

I used color removers when I first started in the salon. But realistically, I had no idea really how to color hair until about 2 years ago. So this is good information to know! I'm gonna get a couple and use them with a more experienced mindset. Is there a better one to buy than another?

We're talking the sulfur-based color removers, right? And even then, my sulfur-base thinking might be entirely wrong as well! Don't judge