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Schedule of Condition lease help

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Asking for a friend who’s in process of a new lease OMG its so complicated, i would be frightened to death

They are looking at getting a schedule of condition, it’s says tenant to hand back property in no worse condition than at the date of the lease

They looking at finding a surveyor who might guide them better than a solictor, the other term is No better condition that means a totally different thing
 

House Beauty

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Generally you do a walkthrough with the landlord or estate agent.

It takes ages to record every scratch and issue like a wet bit on a wall, a bit of damaged paint work, flooring scuffed, tap scaly. Recording it in a contract with photos they have already taken printed out for you. If not, Photograph everything and save it with the date and get them to sign it.

They will call things ‘fair condition’ like mine tried to do with a skanky oven. You get away with a lot that is called fair they said as it gives a lot of leeway if you cause minimal damage. But also means when you leave if you left the skanky oven in a skanky condition then they could say well that isn’t fair use and make you pay for it to be cleaned even though it was dirty when you arrived. Works both ways.

Ask for a walkthrough with photos. Or contact a solicitor and they can write a legal agreement inclusive of the photos. They can also redraft a new contract or query for this ‘no better condition

But generally if you are making it into a salon it will always be better than when you arrived at your expense. If you make everything removable and concealable when you’ve left eg counters and chairs and mirrors... then paint back to whatever colour it should be fine. I’d think better is used because better to some is bright blue wall stickers ruining paintwork and painting over upvc windows ruining warranty on things and ‘fixing’ stuff doing bodge jobs. My friend actually thought when he broke a bathroom tile it would be a good idea to fill the hole with cement. Not just get a tile in there. Thick cement. He thought it was a great fix and was really happy with his handiwork :D

Only damage would be eg water issues, heating but you need to know who’s responsible for those and have relevant insurance.

It sounds worrying but it’s a totally common everyday thing written into all rental agreements.

The solicitor you need would be providing services related to commercial property and conveyancing, just search for one in your area. Some may even deal with it all on your behalf like when buying a house. I don’t know a lot about leasehold but it’s still a type of buying so whether your friend would need a property valuation I’m not sure but they are approx £800. They flag stuff like roof issues/boilers/land/literally anything that can go wrong.

Though if your friend is renewing a lease it does seem unusual that they are starting afresh. Makes me think they want everything your friend has already done to improve it to stay and if they removed anything when leaving they would be in breach of contract.
 
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Starting out

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Generally you do a walkthrough with the landlord or estate agent.

It takes ages to record every scratch and issue like a wet bit on a wall, a bit of damaged paint work, flooring scuffed, tap scaly. Recording it in a contract with photos they have already taken printed out for you. If not, Photograph everything and save it with the date and get them to sign it.

They will call things ‘fair condition’ like mine tried to do with a skanky oven. You get away with a lot that is called fair they said as it gives a lot of leeway if you cause minimal damage. But also means when you leave if you left the skanky oven in a skanky condition then they could say well that isn’t fair use and make you pay for it to be cleaned even though it was dirty when you arrived. Works both ways.

Ask for a walkthrough with photos. Or contact a solicitor and they can write a legal agreement inclusive of the photos. They can also redraft a new contract or query for this ‘no better condition

But generally if you are making it into a salon it will always be better than when you arrived at your expense. If you make everything removable and concealable when you’ve left eg counters and chairs and mirrors... then paint back to whatever colour it should be fine. I’d think better is used because better to some is bright blue wall stickers ruining paintwork and painting over upvc windows ruining warranty on things and ‘fixing’ stuff doing bodge jobs. My friend actually thought when he broke a bathroom tile it would be a good idea to fill the hole with cement. Not just get a tile in there. Thick cement. He thought it was a great fix and was really happy with his handiwork :D

Only damage would be eg water issues, heating but you need to know who’s responsible for those and have relevant insurance.

It sounds worrying but it’s a totally common everyday thing written into all rental agreements.

The solicitor you need would be providing services related to commercial property and conveyancing, just search for one in your area. Some may even deal with it all on your behalf like when buying a house. I don’t know a lot about leasehold but it’s still a type of buying so whether your friend would need a property valuation I’m not sure but they are approx £800. They flag stuff like roof issues/boilers/land/literally anything that can go wrong.

Though if your friend is renewing a lease it does seem unusual that they are starting afresh. Makes me think they want everything your friend has already done to improve it to stay and if they removed anything when leaving they would be in breach of contract.
Thanks so much for advice, it a new lease and it’s a local authority unit, just been told it’s a full repair insuring excluding main structure, roof , walls that is landlords responsibility

im stressed about starting self employment from being employed, no way could I go down route of being a tenant😖too bloomin complicated, but it’s nice to learn stuff
 

Haircutz

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They looking at finding a surveyor who might guide them better than a solictor, the other term is No better condition that means a totally different thing
A surveyor has expertise in the fabric of the building and materials used etc., but not on the finer points of contract law and they won’t advise on things like ’break clauses’ etc.

When signing up to a lease lasting several years, you don’t scrimp on paying for expert advice so your friend needs both a surveyor and a solicitor. With business contracts, you can’t just walk away from your obligations if it doesn’t work out. Handing back the space at the end of a lease can be very expensive too. You’re not just handing back the keys and walking away. You often have to spend just as much again to return it to a pristine condition for re-letting otherwise, you risk being sued by the landlord.
 

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A surveyor has expertise in the fabric of the building and materials used etc., but not on the finer points of contract law and they won’t advise on things like ’break clauses’ etc.

When signing up to a lease lasting several years, you don’t scrimp on paying for expert advice so your friend needs both a surveyor and a solicitor. With business contracts, you can’t just walk away from your obligations if it doesn’t work out. Handing back the space at the end of a lease can be very expensive too. You’re not just handing back the keys and walking away. You often have to spend just as much again to return it to a pristine condition for re-letting otherwise, you risk being sued by the landlord.
Thanks haircutz I will pass it on I supposed the best thing is to try and find a good professional in each field, they so expensive but imagine it can cost you if ever surrender lease

before they looked into it they where tempted to take out a existing business already established but she found out on the grapevine that the tenant had signed a awful lease and that if she took over the lease would be taken over the responsibilities, aparrently the tenant was responsible for the whole building even though the flat above was empty😩

can leases ever be more favourable for the tenant, just wish it was in all simple terms😳 on The plus side if the landlord is the council can’t see them being a absolute pig of a landlord,

mind you she did say when applying for the unit lots of people applied apparently, I thought it would be first come first serve, but no

also if renting from the council, they won’t allow you to trade in same field as other tenants in the same parade, she had to list all permitted use.

im not the brightest as have dyslexia , and didn’t get the help until too late at school, but I’m good at hair and hands on stuff, I can’t see me ever wanting to take on premises, but feel like I’m getting a little knowledgable every day
 

Haircutz

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im not the brightest as have dyslexia , and didn’t get the help until too late at school, but I’m good at hair and hands on stuff, I can’t see me ever wanting to take on premises, but feel like I’m getting a little knowledgable every day
Don’t put yourself down. Lots of academics are both dyslexic and very bright. You sound very clued up and sensible to me. :)
 

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Probably that’s due to the teachers, it takes me a while to grasp certain things, but everyone says since I’ve left school and doing what I love I have thrived

was looking at going alone doing hair extensions but thought of admin Side and vat frightens me, if go down that route prefer fit only as don’t want to go over vat threshold, but then don’t want to fit awful hair if custOmer supply it
 

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Probably that’s due to the teachers, it takes me a while to grasp certain things, but everyone says since I’ve left school and doing what I love I have thrived

was looking at going alone doing hair extensions but thought of admin Side and vat frightens me, if go down that route prefer fit only as don’t want to go over vat threshold, but then don’t want to fit awful hair if custOmer supply it
If accounting is not your strength then use an Accountant to do your books. Hunt around locally for one who deals with small businesses, most will have a meeting with you to discuss what they can do for you and the charges involved. The costs can be offset as a business expense.
 

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If accounting is not your strength then use an Accountant to do your books. Hunt around locally for one who deals with small businesses, most will have a meeting with you to discuss what they can do for you and the charges involved. The costs can be offset as a business expense.
Thanks will do it just scares me, advised to say away from vat for as long as possible
 

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I’m a Council tenant. A public body has a duty of care to the taxpayer and they are legally obliged to enforce the terms of their agreements. If you sign an agreement saying you will “put and keep” the property into good repair you are opening yourself to all sorts of future liabilities.

A schedule of condition is always recommended. They cost a few hundred pounds from a Commercial surveyor and are worth every penny.

Where I trade, all the Commercial Council tenants are up in arms because the Council has changed how they interpret tenant liabilities when they exit leases. It’s gone from one extreme to the other - from allowing long term tenants to let properties go to rack and ruin to now expecting tenants on short leases to pick up over a century of neglect. My exit survey asks me to set aside £1500 for repairs which “might” be needed in future to an external wall on the other side of another tenant’s property. I pay a proportion of the building’s repairs, but I’m in a terrace with properties behind me as well as beside me, and I was never told or given a plan to show me the area covered by the maintenance obligation. I didn’t realise this other building was part of min

if you are dealing with a big landlord, you want to take professional advice from someone who has represented lots of clients dealing with the same landlord. Getting the “inside track” on how your landlord behaves is invaluable. Find out if there is a tenant association that you can join, and play an active part.

The bottom line is that if you exit your lease during a downturn and your landlord thinks they’ll have difficulty marketing your property, they’ll scrutinise every clause in your lease. If, on the other hand, they are rubbing their hands because rents have gone up and they expect to do very well by you leaving - your Landlord might be only too happy to help you on your way.
 

TheDuchess

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And definitely stay away from VAT! Go on holiday if you need to!

I have a friend, a yoga teacher, who went over the registration threshold. So she went from a turnover of £80k and no VAT to pay to turning over £90k and having to pay £18k VAT (plus a fine for registering late) so she was much worse off.

Businesses that sell a lot of retail are different, but if 80% of your turnover is services, VAT is a 20% tax on top of everything else and you’re working one day a week, for free, for the Taxman.
 

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I’m a Council tenant. A public body has a duty of care to the taxpayer and they are legally obliged to enforce the terms of their agreements. If you sign an agreement saying you will “put and keep” the property into good repair you are opening yourself to all sorts of future liabilities.

A schedule of condition is always recommended. They cost a few hundred pounds from a Commercial surveyor and are worth every penny.

Where I trade, all the Commercial Council tenants are up in arms because the Council has changed how they interpret tenant liabilities when they exit leases. It’s gone from one extreme to the other - from allowing long term tenants to let properties go to rack and ruin to now expecting tenants on short leases to pick up over a century of neglect. My exit survey asks me to set aside £1500 for repairs which “might” be needed in future to an external wall on the other side of another tenant’s property. I pay a proportion of the building’s repairs, but I’m in a terrace with properties behind me as well as beside me, and I was never told or given a plan to show me the area covered by the maintenance obligation. I didn’t realise this other building was part of min

if you are dealing with a big landlord, you want to take professional advice from someone who has represented lots of clients dealing with the same landlord. Getting the “inside track” on how your landlord behaves is invaluable. Find out if there is a tenant association that you can join, and play an active part.

The bottom line is that if you exit your lease during a downturn and your landlord thinks they’ll have difficulty marketing your property, they’ll scrutinise every clause in your lease. If, on the other hand, they are rubbing their hands because rents have gone up and they expect to do very well by you leaving - your Landlord might be only too happy to help you on your way.
Wow thanks for info I’m learning so much

the councils terms are to hand property back in No worse condition so they have been told and a schedule condition photos can be added and signed to lease

they have inquired about a survey, one company suggested doing it by video how the hell would that work😀that has me puzzled due to covid

with regards to me if I went self employed and to avoid VAT I would HAVE to ask clients to buy the hair, I wouldn’t be able to buy it.

My concern is they bought inferior hair

I only thought if I bought it I could get them trade discount, But I don’t fancy taking on vat if just becoming self employed. sounds like a minefield, and also the threshold of £85000 would be taken up more by cost of hair, not fitting services

Winder how other extensionists get around VAT

So how would you explain that to a potential client.

where I currently work, I dont even know if our services include vat never thought about it, but my boss must spend a fortune ordering hair in, I know she gets a discount about 20% and passes a small discount off RRP for customer, Nobody asks for a receipt

I
 

fab fingers

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Don’t put yourself down. Lots of academics are both dyslexic and very bright. You sound very clued up and sensible to me. :)
Absolutely right Haircutz. 4 of my kids are dyslexic, 2 have graduated Uni, the other 2 still at school. My sister is also dyslexic and was only diagnosed while doing her masters at uni. She went on to be a Dr (acedemic). You just have to find your own style of learning. My family all have their own methods of taking in information......but you most definitely are not stupid or a lost cause! If you want to be self emp, you'll figure it out!
 

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Thanks fab fingers, I find that because I enjoy doing what I’m doing I find it easier that I have a genuine interest, at school I lost all confidence

and finding info off you guys helps me take it in in my own time
 

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If you buy extensions then VAT might not be so bad for your business. It depends what proportion of your turnover is retail.

Look at it this way. You buy extensions in at wholesale - let’s say 40% off RRP BUT that’s the discount before VAT is added, so £100 of extensions with 40% discount becomes £60 and then they add VAT (£12) so you pay £72 altogether. You sell it to your client at whatever price you decide - let’s say £100. You make £28 profit. Happy days.

Now let’s assume you have to charge VAT. You still charge your client £100 but you have to pay the taxman VAT so you have to divide £100 into 6 and then the taxman gets 1/6 (£16.67) and you keep the rest BUT you can reclaim the VAT you paid when you bought the extensions (£12) so the taxman “only” gets £4.67. Profit £23.33.

You can also claim back any VAT you spend on any business costs, (there are rules about set up costs) so you can claim back the VAT on your electric and so on. Sometimes you have to pay VAT on your rent (!) so one of the questions you must always ask when you are signing a lease is whether VAT is applicable.

You’ll never be up on the deal (unless you’re making a loss), but many businesses turning over less than £150,000 opt to join the flat rate scheme and pay “just” 13% of their turnover as VAT and not have the bother of reclaiming VAT on outgoings and purchases.

For some retail focussed businesses with minimal outgoings that don’t attract VAT, it works out almost as a tax on profit. For a service based business it’s a tax on turnover and turnover may by 9x higher than profits.
 

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If you buy extensions then VAT might not be so bad for your business. It depends what proportion of your turnover is retail.

Look at it this way. You buy extensions in at wholesale - let’s say 40% off RRP BUT that’s the discount before VAT is added, so £100 of extensions with 40% discount becomes £60 and then they add VAT (£12) so you pay £72 altogether. You sell it to your client at whatever price you decide - let’s say £100. You make £28 profit. Happy days.

Now let’s assume you have to charge VAT. You still charge your client £100 but you have to pay the taxman VAT so you have to divide £100 into 6 and then the taxman gets 1/6 (£16.67) and you keep the rest BUT you can reclaim the VAT you paid when you bought the extensions (£12) so the taxman “only” gets £4.67. Profit £23.33.

You can also claim back any VAT you spend on any business costs, (there are rules about set up costs) so you can claim back the VAT on your electric and so on. Sometimes you have to pay VAT on your rent (!) so one of the questions you must always ask when you are signing a lease is whether VAT is applicable.

You’ll never be up on the deal (unless you’re making a loss), but many businesses turning over less than £150,000 opt to join the flat rate scheme and pay “just” 13% of their turnover as VAT and not have the bother of reclaiming VAT on outgoings and purchases.

For some retail focussed businesses with minimal outgoings that don’t attract VAT, it works out almost as a tax on profit. For a service based business it’s a tax on turnover and turnover may by 9x higher than profits.
Omg I think I have to stay away from vat for as long as I can

never been self employed only ever employed

i know where I look to get the extensions from it would just be a 20% discount they offer trade unless you by 1000s of pounds per transaction.

I would just order hair as and when needed, but if hair on average say £500 cost I was planning on doing just a fitting service, I would soon reach vat threshold if I’m understanding it right

and vat seems like a lot of paperwork

so only way round would be for clients to order there own hair and pay full price
 

fab fingers

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I'm not sure of the prices where you are and how many clients you would have, but to simplify a bit.... on a rough scale, you can have turnover of just over £1500 a week, before you qualify to be in vat threshhold. This foes not include holidsys, etc, so could be higher. I'm guessing that you may have some £400-500 clients, but you'll have quite a few paying less than that and if you are doing maintenance work, you won't be charging that sort of money. You might find you will be near, but not over that figure. If you are near it, just have a few days off! Jot down how many you anticipate seeing in a week and what you would charge, with you supplying hair and decide from there.
 

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I'm not sure of the prices where you are and how many clients you would have, but to simplify a bit.... on a rough scale, you can have turnover of just over £1500 a week, before you qualify to be in vat threshhold. This foes not include holidsys, etc, so could be higher. I'm guessing that you may have some £400-500 clients, but you'll have quite a few paying less than that and if you are doing maintenance work, you won't be charging that sort of money. You might find you will be near, but not over that figure. If you are near it, just have a few days off! Jot down how many you anticipate seeing in a week and what you would charge, with you supplying hair and decide from there.
Say if t 2 clients alone got hair which can be in region of day £500 pound, that’s £1000 on hair even before fitting, looks like I will have to ask them to buy own hair which I think doesn’t look very professional but if I them charging around £120 for fitting, can see them wanting to pay vat on top

i thinkI Being envolved in vat from beginning is a no no, sonetimes think I shud just stick employed
 

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