Am I being unreasonable?

[lynn amber]

Give them a cupboard they can lock ,to be fair in the last 6 1/2 year's I have probably on taking 2 weeks off a year on average :-D

Sent from my LT18i using SalonGeek

 

[becky30]

Yes I understand that but I really don't have any rules for them only that December everyone should be fair & pull together. Please don't think I'm being a know it all or am not appreciating all your comments I'm just trying to think of a better way to handle self employed staff. All your suggestions would be very helpful. Bad as I say being employed isn't an option at the moment as we aren't even covering the bills at the moment let alone paying myself or another member of staff. The salon I've taken over has been closed for 6 months & had a very bad reputation beforehand so you can see what I'm up against x

You are looking at the people who rent space from you as your staff, they are not your staff, they are self employed people who rent space from you. The only guidelines they can follow are the ones they set out for themselves. If you want to do this you must employ someone!

 

[Lisgxxx]

Same here, when I was self employed In a salon I wanted to work and was so excited about all the extra money I'd earn at Christmas. And even with my old salon the girls were the same. I just don't get it x

 

[laurakate]

You really need to go on directgov.com and gey amd understanding for the difference between employed and slef employed op. Shes either her own boss or you're the boss. Theres no such thing as a middle point in this respect. Its not the girls fault, if you want someone to give you commitment then you have to give them commitment in the form of an hourly wage and paid holiday and sorting out their tax and ni

 

[Lisgxxx]

Well what are they then if they are not staff? They work in my salon that I've spent a lot of time and money on opening. I feel I'm giving someone a great opportunity to work in a great environment and earn the money they want to earn. I really don't have any rules I just expect a bit of common sense and loyalty. I really can't stress enough about the fact that they are self employed and I can't afford to employ someone.

 

[izzidoll]

Everyone is right re the self employed setting their own hours. I pay a set rent, so can work the hours I want or take holidays as long as the rent is paid that is fine.
HOWEVER I would never take a holiday in December and certainly not if I was just starting out as December is the month to make money and gain new clients.
Employed or self employed it does sound as if this girl neither wants or needs to work...I would forget her and try and get someone else who has a work ethic similar to your own.

 

[Lisgxxx]

THANK YOU!! Ha ha. Finally someone understands what I mean. I'm not too good at putting things into text! Lol. They really do come & go as they please & even set their own prices. I think I'm just shocked that this girl wants one of the busiest weeks of the year off. Like u all say, if she wants it then he can have it as she is self employed but what I mean is that this isn't the best start seen as she's not even started yet. It's not really showing the commitment that I want and need from the girls that work with me. At the end I the day it's my salon and surely what I say goes. Even if they are self employed. If they don't like it then they can find somewhere else to work from.

 

[linzi]

Well what are they then if they are not staff? They work in my salon that I've spent a lot of time and money on opening. I feel I'm giving someone a great opportunity to work in a great environment and earn the money they want to earn. I really don't have any rules I just expect a bit of common sense and loyalty. I really can't stress enough about the fact that they are self employed and I can't afford to employ someone.

They're tenants/renters. They rent the space (and products, as you said) and give you the money for it. They'll be paying their own tax/ni, etc.


I completely agree, btw, there's no way I'd be taking a holiday in December, but it's her money/clients. You need to decide if you can deal with that and, if not, then you both need to sit down and either agree to work together and have no unplanned holidays (and so be employed?), to carry on as is, or to find someone else who has the same ideas as yourself.

 

[Lisgxxx]

That's what I think I'm going to have to do. Myself & the other girl have the same ideas and work ethics and she wants this salon to work as much as I do. Whereas this other girl has already messed me around with her trade test (apparently she was sick the for the first one I arranged) and now this and she's not even started yet!! I think I probably should of learnt when she cancelled her prat trade test but ke being me, I gave her the benefit if the doubt and re arranged it. Now this has happened I really don't know where to go from here. Do I tell her I've changed my mind and don't think we have enough clients for her to start? Or give her another chance and risk her not coming in that week and me potentially being up the creek without a paddle if she's fully booked and doesn't come in?

 

[stephanie_87]

If you can't afford to employ someone then I am sorry but you don't get the bonuses that come with having employed staff. You can't have your cake and eat it. Self employed people choose their own hours and their own holiday and are their own boss. They have the responsibility of paying their own tax and their clients are theirs and not the salons. They are affectively a business just like you. You can't have any control over what uniform they wear or anything else otherwise they are deemed as employed. There are very strict rules set out by HMRC regarding self employed staff. Purely for the reasons that you have stated in your post. Having self employed workers and wanting the control and benefits that come with employed staff is basically tax dodging. You cannot choose to have self employed workers and still want the control that a boss would have. What you are basically saying is that you can't be bothered or cannot afford to pay employers national insurance and fill out all the paperwork that goes hand in hand with employees. Instead you intend to take on self employed workers and then boss them around like they are an employee. You'd be like a cat that got all the cream. You cannot have it both ways, it is illegal. You are renting a space, nothing more nothing less. I am sorry if this seems harsh but I get so aggravated with the self employed debate. I wish you luck in your business

 

[stephanie_87]

Also just to add another point. Plenty of people go for job interviews and ask if their pre-booked holidays could be honoured. It is unfortunate that she chose to have a holiday in December. But such is life. We can't always know what we are going to be doing when we book these things months in advance.

 

[Lisgxxx]

I understand all of what you have said but I most certainly am not tax dodging and its not a case of "can't be bothered" as you put it. its simply a case of not having the money!!! And if you read all my posts beforehand you will see that I have said they can do what they want, when they want. I just think its unreasonable to want a week off during the busiest time of the year.if it was for a pre booked holiday then that would be fine as it cant be helped but this isbt.I

 

[Lisgxxx]

Sorry that sounded funny the way I out it but its not ment to be. I have worked nearly my whole hairdressing life (15 years) in the way I have people in my salon & have never had an issue with it. I always knew I could come & go as I pleased but I also knew there were boundaries that shouldn't be crossed and December was one of them. Anyway, I've had quite a few good suggestions & I will try to implement them. Thank you all for your help & comments x

 

[clare04]

Hi. I can see this from both points of view as I have previously had my own salon and now rent a room. Reading what you have said tho it seems that she obviously has a valid reason for being off as it is a family thing she has planned. She didn't know that she would necessary have a job.
The fact the will be there the two weeks before Christmas is better than not having anyone at all.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using SalonGeek

 

[Tomme]

....

 

[Lisgxxx]

Do u know what, this is what I hate about this forum. No one actually listens. I haven't once said I tell them what hours to work, or what to wear, or what to charge. All I've said is I think it's a bit much taking a week off in the middle of the busiest time when she hasn't actually got any clients and its the best time for her to build them up. And as for you saying you would "smack" the salon owner?! That's not really the right attitude, that's just acting like a plonker. Good luck to u if that's how you rub your business. But I sure as hell haven't got where I am today by acting in that way. It's nice to be nice & its nice to be fair.all I asked was for someone's opinion and yet I've been told I'm tax diving, can't be arsed, lazy, noddy, greedy and now basically told o deserve a smack. What lovely people you all are! Thank u to the lovely people who have given me straight, honest answers. The rest of u, thanks for making a nice friendly question into a bitch fest

 

[Tomme]

Do u know what, this is what I hate about this forum. No one actually listens. I haven't once said I tell them what hours to work, or what to wear, or what to charge. All I've said is I think it's a bit much taking a week off in the middle of the busiest time when she hasn't actually got any clients and its the best time for her to build them up. And as for you saying you would "smack" the salon owner?! That's not really the right attitude, that's just acting like a plonker. Good luck to u if that's how you rub your business. But I sure as hell haven't got where I am today by acting in that way. It's nice to be nice & its nice to be fair.all I asked was for someone's opinion and yet I've been told I'm tax diving, can't be arsed, lazy, noddy, greedy and now basically told o deserve a smack. What lovely people you all are! Thank u to the lovely people who have given me straight, honest answers. The rest of u, thanks for making a nice friendly question into a bitch fest

All I was getting to is that you can't say no. And I wouldn't accept someone saying no to me.
Sorry if I offended, am stressed out this week (had to admit earlier today that if I was a woman and it was my time I probably would have ripped someone's head off by today), have deleted my post to show I didn't mean any upset.

In a basic answer. Yes I do think its unreasonable to ask she works over Christmas if she chooses not to. Xoxo

 

[Lisgxxx]

No no it's not u it's probably me being dramatic! Lol. It's hard to explain on a forum as no one actually knows what I'm like as a person. It just gets my back up when people jump to conclusions without actually reading the facts. I have always worked self employed in salons but I always had the respect & understanding that of it wasn't for the salon owner I may not have a job and I guess I expect people to be the same. But hey, if we were all the sane life would be no fun would it! Ha. So anyway, as I said before... I've taken this girl on a self employed basis, and she's due to start Wednesday. I've had no reply from the text I sent earlier asking her if she could at least make it back for the Friday (as its the last one before Xmas) and I've had no reply. Now do I look for someone else sharp ish or hold out & see what happens? Yes yes I know, it's up to her what she does but ultimately she's working in my salon and I need her income to help towards the bills, so she's no good to me if she can't be there for the busy time in which I've taken her on for.

 

[becky30]

Oh no... I'm really sorry if I've upset you, I really didn't mean to, but as you say, it's easy to mis interpret text. No harm was meant I'm sorry.
But, I am in exactly the same position as you, I am due to open a salon and I am renting out a treatment room and a nail station to another girl, I am just not managing her, her business is her business and if she does things that I don't like, we'll I'm just gonna have to suck it up and get on with it.
My salon is not yet open however but myself and this other girl seem to be on the same wave length, with regular meetings as to how it's gonna work when we are open, I'm excited. And I wish you luck with your salon too x

 

[KaylieNails]

So... I've recently opened a salon and have been searching for self employed staff for the last month. After numerous interviews & lots of people not even turning up I found someone!! So she was brill at her trade test, was happy with the way we worked things and seemed really keen! After I offered her the position I receive a text asking of she can have a couple of days off in dec for a family occasion she had planned. I was fair & explained that just this once I'd let her but this isn't usually the case in December as its a busy month. So she said thanks & said shed let me know the date (I'd also told her if it was Christmas week it'd be a no go). So today I get another text asking for the whole week off! The 2nd week of dec!!! What would you do? I've explained that the whole reason I was looking for someone else was to make sure we didn't turn anyone away at Christmas as I'm hoping this will gain us a good name and reputation in the area. I also was under the impression it was only for a couple of days not the whole week and I'd need her back for the end of the week. I've had no reply. What would you do? I think I might have to just find someone else as she clearly doesn't want to work & earn money. I get the impression she's from a well off family as she drives a love little Audi and hasn't been working since feb!!

Well I totally get where ur coming from , I rent from a lady in a hair salon doing nails. And although she doesent employ me I do whatever will help the salon , for example I'm working Christmas eve not for me but for the sake of the salon reputation. She should want to do the same to be fair , if u haven't had this renting agreement for long she should deffo be trying to impress u and not asking for a lot of time off and I think its crazy to take the second week of Dec off !!! What the hell. However I see wat ebryone else is saying as I used to rent from someone else and she was totally unreasonable and used to tell me what days I had to.work n what times which is totally down to me and as she was such a bitch I didnt want to bother doing owt for her or the salon , (I ended up getting kicked out but that's another story lol) soo yeah she should want to respect u and ur salon but u need to remember that she tecnically doesent even have to come in if she pays her rent. But I'd u want someone who will maybe u need to look into letting someone else rent xxxxxx

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using SalonGeek