Divine h & b
Well-Known Member
Although you can't say no as a trainee years ago I was alway taught Xmas you work would ever dream of time off in dec self employed or not
Am I being unreasonable?
- Thread starter Lisgxxx
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Lady Murasaki
Well-Known Member
Rather than keep texting her, why don't you just call her and sort things out?
I think we all understand what you're saying. It is unreasonable to want a week off in the busy season, although its your reputation on the line (as its your name on the door, so to speak) it's her money she's missing out on. If you do decide to find someone else, maybe make your work ethic clear so your both on the same page, to avoid situations like this
It's a bit harsh to call you a tax dodger and that you can't be bothered etc! If you can't afford to employ someone, you can't afford it, simple as that. Did you draw up some sort of guidelines that your self employed staff can work with. Then your expectations would be there in black and white.
Lisgxxx
Well-Known Member
I have tried to call but there's been no answer. And as for me getting narky, I wasn't. I wrote on here for other people's opinions. I took them all on board and I appreciate all the advice people have given me. But as someone else said, being called a tax dodger, saying I can't be bothered and being told I deserved a smack is a bit much don't u think? Just like your post, why comment on someone's post if you haven't got anything constructive to say?!?!
My post is constructive. You sound like a very defensive person who doesn't like listening to other people's opinions. You had obviously already made up your mind as to what you were going to do and came on here to validate your decision. When you didn't get the validation you were seeking you started shouting off about people not listening and basically going off on one about the people with differing opinions then you saying that they weren't listening.
My point is why do you bother asking when you have already decided and are not prepared to take other people's opinions (which YOU asked for) on bored?
laurakate
Well-Known Member
If you can't afford to employ someone then I am sorry but you don't get the bonuses that come with having employed staff. You can't have your cake and eat it. Self employed people choose their own hours and their own holiday and are their own boss. They have the responsibility of paying their own tax and their clients are theirs and not the salons. They are affectively a business just like you. You can't have any control over what uniform they wear or anything else otherwise they are deemed as employed. There are very strict rules set out by HMRC regarding self employed staff. Purely for the reasons that you have stated in your post. Having self employed workers and wanting the control and benefits that come with employed staff is basically tax dodging. You cannot choose to have self employed workers and still want the control that a boss would have. What you are basically saying is that you can't be bothered or cannot afford to pay employers national insurance and fill out all the paperwork that goes hand in hand with employees. Instead you intend to take on self employed workers and then boss them around like they are an employee. You'd be like a cat that got all the cream. You cannot have it both ways, it is illegal. You are renting a space, nothing more nothing less. I am sorry if this seems harsh but I get so aggravated with the self employed debate. I wish you luck in your business
Amen to that.
I have been offered a number of jobs where they wanted to treat me as empoyed but call me self employed. I wouldn't put myself in this situation for any ammount of money. Just not worth it.
Oh and a senior member of our team, been with us 8 years self employed has the first two weeks of December off as she has a family wedding and then a trip to Lapland. As a consequence she is already booked up the two other weeks either side
Lisgxxx
Well-Known Member
Again what you are all saying isn't true.. I don't have the bonus' that come with employing people & I don't tell them what they can do. I just think its taking the p a bit by having a week off in December when she's not even started yet & I'm giving her the perfect opportunity to build up her clients!! Surely u can all see that!! All I've said us I'd rather she only took a couple if days off, if she doesn't want to put the work in during the most busy time then ill find someone who does x
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I don't really agree with that.
I think the OP had certain expectations of how the 'self employment' route would work based on her own previous experience. Also, the expectation that the owner and the self employed person would automatically be on the same wavelength regarding building a good business from the ground up.
Presumably, most of you would agree that taking time off in December (just before the January/February slump) is madness for any new business trying to get established, regardless of whether you are a salon owner, employed or self employed chair renter?
I think in this case, the self employed person is also acting like this is an employed position by 'asking for time off' and perhaps not really considering how this will affect 'her business'.
In this case, I think that the OP didn't spend enough time in the recruiting process to establish the details of how this arrangement will work and made incorrect assumptions about how the other person would run her business.
I agree that a self employed person chooses their own days/hours etc. but for their own business and the salon to be really successful, there has to be harmony amongst all the staff working there which must be based on shared values and some sense of teamwork.
Lisgxxx
Well-Known Member
Because you have all jumped to conclusions! I wish I'd never bothered! Lol. As I said I take what u all said on bored & I appreciate what you are all saying. And as for your friend, you said yourself, she's been there 8 years so has an established client base who will understand and work around her. This girl hasn't & we r a new salon that needs to grab every client that comes I. And keep them coming back! Turning people away because we are under staffed isn't going to keep people coming in is it x
Lisgxxx
Well-Known Member
Thank u! X
Lynne Baker
Lynne The Skin!
It's all about shared objectives.
Some people want to work part time and that's entirely their prerogative. When you're building your business it's not unreasonable to want someone on board, whether employed or self employed, to share the vision.
In this instance I think you should have listened to your gut instinct. From what you've said it doesn't look as if she either has the will, the desire, or the need to work her arse off.
Contracts with break clauses are invaluable! Try before you buy, if you will!
It's worth bearing in mind that nobody, but nobody, will care for your business the way you do. You, and only you, are the only one with a vested interest in making it work. Your employed staff will see it as just a job, your renters will be interested in building THEIR client book up, not YOUR salon name.
It's a hard notion to accept...
Good luck with your salon!
Some people want to work part time and that's entirely their prerogative. When you're building your business it's not unreasonable to want someone on board, whether employed or self employed, to share the vision.
In this instance I think you should have listened to your gut instinct. From what you've said it doesn't look as if she either has the will, the desire, or the need to work her arse off.
Contracts with break clauses are invaluable! Try before you buy, if you will!
It's worth bearing in mind that nobody, but nobody, will care for your business the way you do. You, and only you, are the only one with a vested interest in making it work. Your employed staff will see it as just a job, your renters will be interested in building THEIR client book up, not YOUR salon name.
It's a hard notion to accept...
Good luck with your salon!
Lisgxxx
Well-Known Member
I agree that I probably didn't take the time in making clear what I expect and that's probably where I've gone wrong. I assumed she'd be willing to give it her all, especially around Christmas but this has proved not to be the case. Like I said before, I shouldn't expect everyone to have the same work ethic as myself. I just assumed she would as I've never encountered this before x
Lisgxxx
Well-Known Member
Thank you! You've hit the nail on the head! Whenever I've had self employed stylists I've found they WANT to work whereas when I've had employed staff they treat it as just a job and won't go out of their way to help people x
Back to your original post though..you stated that you had spent ages trying to find someone etc they you had been disappointed by the other applicants and that this girl was brilliant on her trade test. You are judging the fact she comes from a wealthy family because she drives a nice car (?!?!?!). saying because her parents are well off she wont work as hard, which lets face it is as awful and prejudice as judging someone because they live on a council estate!!! my friend drives a porch cayman which she bought as a write off and did up but thats by the by and completely irrelevant to her work ethic and whether she is good at her job!! do you think you will find someone else between now and Xmas when it took you so long before? Do you really want the reputation of being difficult to work for when you are already struggling to find staff??? You may just end up shooting yourself in the foot for the sake of a principle and have no body to work the whole of December not just the week that she wants off :-(
Lisgxxx
Well-Known Member
No I wasn't judging her at all otherwise I wouldn't of offered her the place to work. I just feel that seen as she's not worked since the beginning of the year (to her own admission, couldn't be bothered to find a job but now she's trying to pick herself up) she obviously is doing the job as a hobby rather than working to live & pay bills like the rest of us. Which again she told me herself.
And you don't say why she wants the time off? I certainly wouldn't miss a close family members wedding or any other significant family event unless it was life or death these things happen only once and there is no going back once you have missed them.
these things happen only once and there is no going back once you have missed them.
Lisgxxx
Well-Known Member
God knows what I'm going to do now tho! Like u said, trying to find someone between now & Xmas is gonna be unlikely as I've had so many people mess me around over this last month. I only work part time as I have an 8 month old baby but I'm considering asking my mother in law to have the time off work (which I know she won't mind) and working full time myself for Christmas x
