Company with similar name?

[Verve Designs]

I agree- they would need to have sent a letter in order for this to be really serious. It's just scare tactics. There would only be a real issue if you were "passing off" as them i.e. pretending to be them. Which is impossible as you;

A) Pre-date them significantly and I have the emails to prove it.
B) Bloody well arent doing that- and prove that please Mr Wannabe Corporate Bully

As the person who designed your logo- perhaps you ought to email them back and let them know that you'll be keeping an eye on their branding as yours predates theirs and you have intellectual property rights over your logo should they impinge on it in any way. If you email me the name of the company I'll keep an eye on it myself as I'm not so keen myself on having my clients ideas pinched.

p.s. My business was named after the band..but sadly no threatening letter from Richard Ashcroft yet.

 

[~Louise~]

Oh my god! what a cheek! but your right, don't let them bully you - they don't have a leg to stand on! I am so annoyed for you though!

lol, I love reading Ruth's replies, they're always so funny (& correct too!) you go sister!

 

[Ruth Mills]

Hmm, whatever the ins and outs of intellectual property law, I think the moral of the story here is that if you value your business's branding, then you would be wise to consider registering your trading name/logo/etc as a trade mark before anyone else does; according to the Intellectual Property Office, Intellectual Property Office - Trade marks - this will cost from £200 upwards - which is a paltry sum compared to the astronomical sums that some corporate lawyers apparently charge!

 

[cabinkel]

well my lovely geeky friends, what a couple of days! I have received legal advice from a trade mark specialist solicitor, and basically, a company that decides they like my business name, and trade mark it, can make me change. HOWEVER, as my company predates their trademarking by 5and 1/2 years, I have a very strong case to challenge it. If I was vindictive, I could also challenge their actual trade mark, and request it be revoked.
The weirdest thing is, WHY?????? Why on earth would a little 2 room high street salon, 80 miles away, be interested or bothered by my little, (but succsessful) home salon?? I just dont get it! The solicitor did say that sometimes, when the companies are a small concern, they have a "power trip" type thing going on. They like to intimidate and bully, it makes them feel more important! How sad is that!
So, I await the delightful peoples legal letters!

 

[lisa.sharrock]

Didn't realise they had emailed you. Not exactly very professional is it, in any case I don't think emailed correspondance can be used in the court of law, well they can't in divorce cases anyway, that's my understanding anyway.

I'm sure it will go well for you.

 

[cabinkel]

well to be fair, the guy that phoned me was demanding my home address. I didnt know him from adam so there was no way that I was giving out my details over the phone!!!!!

 

[cabinkel]

Something I do keep thinking though, they are obvioulsy not nice people. Do I want my business name associated with that sort of company? If they are, more than likely, getting a reputation for the way they do business, would I want to be associated with that!!!!

 

[Verve Designs]

.....a company that decides they like my business name, and trade mark it, can make me change.

Thats probably true....but the point is that they're just using one word- they're not called Sassy Lashes, and they've not trademarked it have they? They're like Douglas Bader.....not got a leg to stand on (sorry).

I'm almost certain there are bigger concerns than them with the word Sassy in their name, perhaps we ought to tell those bigger, legitimately larger companies, that this company wants to use their name. Would they be sending letters to American corporations with the name Sassy in the name? Cos they do exist!

They're not a massive business- and the solicitor is right, some small business people do business in a way which reflects their personality and think they're running Microsoft and get a pathetic power-trip from throwing their (insignificant) weight about.

I wouldnt worry about their reputation affecting yours, they've clearly got delusions of grandeur and their sphere of influence won't affect how people percieve your business- you stand your ground!

To be honest, we're all in this together really, most of us on here are running micro/small busineses with company names that arent trademarked (I know mine isn't) simply because we'd expect- in a rational world- to be left alone to make a living by idiots on a power trip. I would suggest the Geeks on here keep a keen eye on this, and help if needs be, because it might set a precedent and affect us all in due course.

.....rant done...this has properly annoyed me!

 

[Ruth Mills]

For clarity, since trademark registrations are available to view freely via the Intellectual Property Office - Welcome to the Intellectual Property Office website, doing a search on the word "Sassy" has found only one trademark registration related to health and beauty which features only the word "Sassy" (as opposed to "Sassy [some other word]") - which suggests that this would appear to be the trademark registration in question:

Intellectual Property Office - Results

Notably, notice of their trademark application was sent on 25th August 2010 to the following other companies who had already registered trademarks beginning with the word "Sassy":

Intellectual Property Office - Results
Intellectual Property Office - Results

One could therefore imagine that these other companies would either not have challenged the trademark application, or would have made an unsuccessful challenge to the trademark, as the "Sassy" trademark registration was consequently completed on 5th November this year.

Interestingly, the entry on the Intellectual Property Office - Welcome to the Intellectual Property Office website shows that the "Sassy" trademark registration is in two classes:

Class 03: Hair care preparations, hair care products, hair care products in the form of hair sprays, hair cleaning preparations, hair curling preparations, hair grooming preparations, hair products, hair styling preparations, hair protection creams, hair protection gels, hair protection lotions, hair tonic (non-medicated), hair colouring products, make-up products, make-up removing preparations, perfume, perfumed articles, creams (cosmetic), creams (non-medicated-) for the skin

Class 44: Beautician services, beauty salons, beauty consultancy, hair care services, hair dressing salon services, hair colouring services, hair cutting services, hair styling, hairdressing salons.

Which is interesting, as a Google search has shown that the company who uses the trademark "Sassy" referred to above is Sassy Hair and Beauty - Aldershot - which appears to be a salon in the Aldershot area - not a chain of salons. So while one would expect a salon business to have registered their trademark in class 44 (beautician services etc), the registration in class 03 is surprising - as it would possibly imply that their intention was to create and market a line of hair/beauty related products using the "Sassy" trademark in question.

Further research (doing a "whois" on the owner of the domain name sassysalon.co.uk and cross-referencing this with data publicly available on the Companies House website, Companies House) has shown that they are trading as a limited company with two directors, one of whom's profession is listed as "Hairdresser", and the other "Property Developer" - and the director whose profession is listed as "Hairdresser" is the same person whose name is listed on the trademark application on the ipo.gov.uk website.

 

[smooth]

I'm sorry, but I registered sassylashes.co.uk for Cabinkel on 21st October 2009. Any reasonable person would consider it inconceivable for anyone to claim a total monopoly on a dictionary word (i.e. "Sassy") - although it would appear that logic and common sense do not always apply in the field of corporate law...

I think you may have misunderstood my post Ruth,:o I wrote what I was told by companies house as my ltd company share a word with other businesses registered there too.

I certainly don't agree with what they have done however, I do feel this geek should question them as to whether they have written to all other companies with the name sassy AND how are they going to implement this with all the other ltd companies registered with the name sassy? That is impossible as they have the same right, maybe that is why they are only targeting this geek as she is a sole trader?

Just to add further I don't think you can say you are not in the same business as lashes are a beauty treatment which they will argue so this geek will have to come up with something other than this arguement as I don't unfortunatley think it will hold up. You need to look beyond the lash versus hair and beauty and I hope you are seeing this as a positive thread as I want you to get a good case against them and if they push this point of type of business you need to be prepared. I hope I have maybe made myself a lot clearer.

Also, you may want to contact companies house on Monday under the guise of you wanting to register sassy lashes as a ltd company and ask them whether this can be done and what would happen if you got a complaint from another business or a new business opened up with your business name or similar and then this will stand you in good stead on how to fight back this other company!:hug:

 

[Ruth Mills]

I think you may have misunderstood my post Ruth,:o I wrote what I was told by companies house as my ltd company share a word with other businesses registered there too.

I certainly don't agree with what they have done however, I do feel this geek should question them as to whether they have written to all other companies with the name sassy AND how are they going to implement this with all the other ltd companies registered with the name sassy? That is impossible as they have the same right, maybe that is why they are only targeting this geek as she is a sole trader?

Just to add further I don't think you can say you are not in the same business as lashes are a beauty treatment which they will argue so this geek will have to come up with something other than this arguement as I don't unfortunatley think it will hold up. You need to look beyond the lash versus hair and beauty and I hope you are seeing this as a positive thread as I want you to get a good case against them and if they push this point of type of business you need to be prepared. I hope I have maybe made myself a lot clearer.

Also, you may want to contact companies house on Monday under the guise of you wanting to register sassy lashes as a ltd company and ask them whether this can be done and what would happen if you got a complaint from another business or a new business opened up with your business name or similar and then this will stand you in good stead on how to fight back this other company!:hug:

I probably did sorry, :hug: - my fault for getting fired up by what I perceive to be a huge injustice for poor Cabinkel.

 

[tina]

im quite interested in this matter.

my mobile business is beautybox but my domain is tinasbeautybox.com but i know there is a salon in the same town that uses the same name.

im thinking of registering my name before they do cos ive checked and they are not registered.

would i register as beautybox luton or tinasbeautybox

thanks

 

[Ruth Mills]

im quite interested in this matter.

my mobile business is beautybox but my domain is tinasbeautybox.com but i know there is a salon in the same town that uses the same name.

im thinking of registering my name before they do cos ive checked and they are not registered.

would i register as beautybox luton or tinasbeautybox

thanks

Your domain name and logo says "Tina's Beauty Box" - so I feel that would be the more appropriate name to trademark. Intellectual Property Office - Trade marks has the relevant information - although please check the guidelines for trademarks to ascertain if this would be a valid trademark before coughing up £200+ to register it and then finding out that it's not valid and losing your money.

Consequently, if your trademark application is successful, and if the other salon subsequently wanted to trademark their name, you would be notified, having previously registered a trademark with "Beauty Box" in it - meaning that you could theoretically contest their subsequent trademark application if you wanted to (although if you're a nice person then you'd probably allow it - but if not, then because you'd trademarked your name first, you would be in a much stronger position if they subsequently tried to contest your use of the words "beauty box" than if they had got in and trademarked it first).

 

[Ruth Mills]

Hmm, I'm actually thinking that it might generally be a good idea for people to consider trademarking their business names - as the cost of doing so (currently £200 for each trademark in a single class, with each subsequent class being an additional £50) is going to be generally a lot less than the cost of a subsequent re-name/re-brand (signage, website, marketing material, loss of business due to client confusion, etc).

While most reasonable people probably wouldn't care if someone has a salon with the same name as you in a completely different area of the country, you *would* care if someone in the same town or the town next to you opened a salon with the same name - and that trademark registration (particularly in class 44 - Beautician services, beauty salons, beauty consultancy, hair care services, hair dressing salon services, hair colouring services, hair cutting services, hair styling, hairdressing salons) will be ample ammunition against their attempt to use your name and try and confuse your clients...

 

[tina]

thanks for your tips Ruth

 

[Ruth Mills]

Here's a question too... if Company X registers their domain name in October 2009 and has their website up and running by mid November 2009, and then Company Y applies for their trademark in May 2010, does that give company X any leverage against company Y's allegation of trademark infringement?

Or, does company X have to prove that they had been using the "S" word in their trading name prior to company Y having ever used it (i.e. does the trademark application by company Y give them retrospective rights over all companies (whose business trades in the same "classes" they have registered their trademark against) who have used the "S" word after the first date that company "Y" began using the name that they subsequently trademarked - but before company Y's trademark application?

Company X can provide documentation in the form of a "whois" lookup on their domain, which shows the original date of registration, and invoices from their web designer.

 

[Lynne Baker]

Ruth - darling girl - sometimes I think you do need to get out more!
mwah!

 

[Ruth Mills]

Ruth - darling girl - sometimes I think you do need to get out more!
mwah!

I agree! It's been a very strange few months!

 

[Lynne Baker]

RE: trademarking a company name. I've been told by many a chap in the beauty and in the legal industry that it's barely worth the paper it's written on. If a bigger company comes along and wants your name unless you're a rich as Croesus you're stuffed.
Pain in the ar$e though if someone's buggering around with a name v similar to your own. Send 'em a poo in a jiffy bag, that's my advice.

 

[Ruth Mills]

RE: trademarking a company name. I've been told by many a chap in the beauty and in the legal industry that it's barely worth the paper it's written on. If a bigger company comes along and wants your name unless you're a rich as Croesus you're stuffed.
Pain the ar$e though if someone's buggering around with a name v similar to your own. Send 'em a poo in a jiffy bag, that's my advice.

Aye, it's those corporate lawyers with their exorbitant fees again! Still, if the entity you are contesting with happens to be a similar sized or smaller company, then I guess it still gives you an advantage...