Underlying pigment, question for hair

[Tiffyx]

This thread has been a great read!

 

[tiatia22]

This thread has been a great read!

I've loved it, sent me slightly insane, but learned alot.xx:Love:

 

[dee]

i think classix should be doing online courses for color theory :lol: i know i would pay for his knowledge , lol

 

[wonderwoman]

classix has explained it very well. Do an online tutorial! Great read so far! xoxo

 

[tiatia22]

i think classix should be doing online courses for color theory :lol: i know i would pay for his knowledge , lol

I'll tell him.Think he's here somewhere in my pocket , oh dam ,where's he gone.....:Love:

 

[snaz]

Yes it is for informative! I just can't get why though wella says its the natural underlying pigments. Unless they manufacture there colours different to compensate for this?

I've asked them twice and its still the same answer!! Also college who uses wella said the same has wella!!
I think that's why this lead me to the confusion !!!!!

 

[tiatia22]

Yes it is for informative! I just can't get why though wella says its the natural underlying pigments. Unless they manufacture there colours different to compensate for this?

I've asked them twice and its still the same answer!! Also college who uses wella said the same has wella!!
I think that's why this lead me to the confusion !!!!!

I know what you mean, strange that Wella disagrees.I get the impression that the rules are the same for all colour lines, as when i asked the question, no one said what colour range do you use.You just want to know this is the right way ,and that's it. But seems everyone thinks different in the world of hairdressing.:Love:

 

[tiatia22]

Yes it is for informative! I just can't get why though wella says its the natural underlying pigments. Unless they manufacture there colours different to compensate for this?

I've asked them twice and its still the same answer!! Also college who uses wella said the same has wella!!
I think that's why this lead me to the confusion !!!!!

Snaz, I've ordered a book it's the science about colouring so hopefully i will understand more after that, i will let you know what it says.But i'm gonna be looking at the target base underlying pigment. Although it does still worry me abit regarding the Wella reply.xx

 

[tiatia22]

Altering Natural Pigment
Remaining pigment

When lightening hair with permanent hair color or lighteners, the first primary color to be removed is blue, this exposes the red and yellow (warmer) tones.
This remaining warm pigment is crucial to hair color because it determines the color selection when coloring or lifting.
The remaining warm pigment changes from level to level, varying shades of red/brown are seen when lifting from darker levels.
Working with the color wheel you may choose to either neutralize or enhance the remaining pigment.
To enhance remaining pigment, choose a color by working around the wheel.
To neutralize the remaining pigment, choose it�s complementary (opposite) color. Always remember that the remaining pigment has the ability to override artificial pigmentation.

More info found.:Love:

 

[snaz]

Snaz, I've ordered a book it's the science about colouring so hopefully i will understand more after that, i will let you know what it says.But i'm gonna be looking at the target base underlying pigment. Although it does still worry me abit regarding the Wella reply.xx

Interesting to know what it says!! I'm going a a course with wella for blondes but it's not 9th July, I'll see what they say! I'll keep you posted!!

One question if you go with the target shade underlying pigments, what if the target shade depth has not been achieve how is it suppose to counteract then??

 

[snaz]

Well more and more we search the Internet the target shade pigment rules!!

 

[tiatia22]

Interesting to know what it says!! I'm going a a course with wella for blondes but it's not 9th July, I'll see what they say! I'll keep you posted!!

One question if you go with the target shade underlying pigments, what if the target shade depth has not been achieve how is it suppose to counteract then??

Well i suppose it's working it out and fingers crossed
eg base 6 wants a 9
up 3 levels use 30 vol, and include violet or ash/violet in the mix (say 9/16)
5-7 use 20 vol for 2 lifts and blue ash in your mix eg 7/1
that's if you want cool shades. I think that's right,lol.

 

[snaz]

Yes they sound right. Only difference with wella is that peroxide give different lifts

Pastel for toning or light bleach.
6% 1 shade lift or darker same depth/ for grey coverage

9% 2 levels of lift

12% 3 levels of lift or with high lift 4-5 levels.

 

[tiatia22]

Yes they sound right. Only difference with wella is that peroxide give different lifts

Pastel for toning or light bleach.
6% 1 shade lift or darker same depth/ for grey coverage

9% 2 levels of lift

12% 3 levels of lift or with high lift 4-5 levels.

I use Wella and Kadus ( just like Wella)
I always get 3 levels with 30 vol, I only use 40 vol with high lift, as i find 40 vol you lose your tone.:Love:

 

[tiatia22]

Each level that you stop hair color at (desired level) has a different underlining pigment so checking which level you'll stop is the most important thing to the formulation process, you check out the underlying pigment at that stopping point before you choose your artificial formula.

Check out hairdressing world underlying pigment there is a link and it explains in detail.It's great. xx:Love:

 

[Perry_Althair]

right...this is still on my mind lol

did we decide that colour graphics/spectrum applied to the same rules or not.

its just that when using spectrum, i seem to only get yellow when using green on 6 and below.

with blue i dont get a very obvious lift on 7 and 8, whereas using violet on a 7 i get a lovely creamy blonde!

can't get my head around this!:grr:

 

[tiatia22]

right...this is still on my mind lol

did we decide that colour graphics/spectrum applied to the same rules or not.

its just that when using spectrum, i seem to only get yellow when using green on 6 and below.

with blue i dont get a very obvious lift on 7 and 8, whereas using violet on a 7 i get a lovely creamy blonde!

can't get my head around this!:grr:

I'm gonna take it that it's target shade underlying pigment with 1-10 tints and high lift .So from your findings and from mine it seems to be the case.xx

 

[Perry_Althair]

I'm gonna take it that it's target shade underlying pigment with 1-10 tints and high lift .So from your findings and from mine it seems to be the case.xx

see this is where i'm getting confused...when bleaching and toning, you'd use the target level from your bleach, but thats also the starting tone before toning haha!

spectrum is like in between a highlift and a bleach, so if that is a case of using the starting pigment, that would be the only thing that applies to?

i know i should stick to my tech manual and what-not, but i seem to have got better results with using a violet pigment on hair that would, at the starting level, throw up orange, but it lifts to a yellow so how does that make sense? lol

 

[Mandita8601]

say someone has chestnut brown hair naturally, meaning they have level 5 depth and red undertones. This should come into consideration when choosing a colour to tint? or am i confusing things even more. Is that not why some of the lighter shades (in tints) have ash (green) in them. to neutralise the red as it lightens? that's my thinking anyway probably haven't explained that right lol

 

[Lamaur man]

say someone has chestnut brown hair naturally, meaning they have level 5 depth and red undertones. This should come into consideration when choosing a colour to tint? or am i confusing things even more. Is that not why some of the lighter shades (in tints) have ash (green) in them. to neutralise the red as it lightens? that's my thinking anyway probably haven't explained that right lol

Yes that is correct. If you suspect that the hair has strong red undertones, you could use a matt shade to help neutralise the red tones if you think they would show through your chosen shade. You can also use them in color correction to neutralise red tones. Just be aware that if you want to go very light, say level 8 or above when using a matt tone, the color may not be as light as expected because matt and strong ash tones are generally darker in character.