Gel nails bubbling

[carolinejessica]

Hi everyone, hope you’ve all had a good Christmas.

I’ve had an issue with a set of gels and looming for some advise and opinions.
For the first time ever I’ve had a set of gels bubble, the client showered and then some of the polish totally came off.
I preped in the usual way and when I wiped at the end they all felt dry and it was fine. However I used a premier gel colour for the first time and I’m wondering if it was too thick as it was a glitter colour ? Then has not cured fully?
Can I have some opinions and advise? Researching about it I think it could be due to the thickness of the gel, I usually use OPI gel colour which is very thin consistency, so I think I’ve messed up with the thickness?

 

[Trinity]

If you are sure the client is not pulling a fast one looking for a refund/discount, then I would definitely be looking at curing issue.

 

[Thebesttech]

Glitter prevents curing of the product since it blocks the UV light from reaching the gel underneath. As to why they bubbled up, hard to say.

Heavy pigmented gels are also harder to cure since it too also blocks curing. Thats why these gel polishes must be formulated and tested to see if they cure. This is a problem with gels other than CND.

 

[fab fingers]

How soon after the service did the client contact you? Do you have pictures? I would usually try a new product on myself/staff/family before using on a client, so O'm 100% happy I've used correctly and that it's 'done what it says on the tin'!

 

[carolinejessica]

If you are sure the client is not pulling a fast one looking for a refund/discount, then I would definitely be looking at curing issue.

Thank you, I feel like it must be a curing issue to. The client is someone close to me who I’ve done gels for a while and never had an issue. I don’t think she would be trying anything. At least I hope not.

 

[carolinejessica]

Glitter prevents curing of the product since it blocks the UV light from reaching the gel underneath. As to why they bubbled up, hard to say.

Heavy pigmented gels are also harder to cure since it too also blocks curing. Thats why these gel polishes must be formulated and tested to see if they cure. This is a problem with gels other than CND.

Great fact to know thank you. I’ve not had issues with glitter gels before, but the gel was very thick,very pigmented and had a lot of glitter so this makes sense!

 

[carolinejessica]

How soon after the service did the client contact you? Do you have pictures? I would usually try a new product on myself/staff/family before using on a client, so O'm 100% happy I've used correctly and that it's 'done what it says on the tin'!

It was the following day after the service that she contacted me. She sent a photo but it was very blurry and hard to see. She said most of the nails were fine just happened to a few so I’m wondering if I’ve applied it too thick on a few nails. Luckily the client was my sister in law so she’s not mad about it, more just letting me know so it doesn’t happen on another client. I will test it on myself to see if I can sort the issue out rather than getting rid. I know other nail techs who swear by the brand and haven’t had issues. But will test it myself again to see, it’s a beautiful colour that id love to be able to use on others too. Just need to figure out where I’ve gone wrong

 

[NancySyd]

I do think this is a curing issue too. Contrary to thebesttech, all reputable pro gel brands besides CND cure perfectly fine, so I would suspect that it may be a combination of the lamp and the thickness. First, did you use your OPI lamp to cure the Premier Gel? There may be a mismatch there. Check that the OPI lamp is a proper (i.e., recommended by the manufacturer) lamp for that gel. Second, UV light does not penetrate very deep into gel, and the particles and pigment in glitter and dark colors interfere with the UV light passing through. It can make them harder to cure. Make your layers as thin as possible. You may have to do more layers in order to get the coverage you seek, but keep each coat thin.

 

[fab fingers]

It was the following day after the service that she contacted me. She sent a photo but it was very blurry and hard to see. She said most of the nails were fine just happened to a few so I’m wondering if I’ve applied it too thick on a few nails. Luckily the client was my sister in law so she’s not mad about it, more just letting me know so it doesn’t happen on another client. I will test it on myself to see if I can sort the issue out rather than getting rid. I know other nail techs who swear by the brand and haven’t had issues. But will test it myself again to see, it’s a beautiful colour that id love to be able to use on others too. Just need to figure out where I’ve gone wrong

I'm not familiar with this particular brand, but from quickly googling them, they are not a 'professional' brand, in my opinion. They do not ask for your qualifications to buy, which is a HUGE red flag for me, and they do not supply a properly calibrated lamp to go with their product. So how would you know whether it's cured?....ur basically guessing!.....and that's not how a professional brand works, in my opinion.

With regard the glitter.....if it hasn't 'bubbled' on every finger, and you trust the description from your sis in law.....I tend to be careful when using glitter, whether as an actual glitter polish, or if adding it as nail art, etc. Whether it's largish flecks or shimmery glitter.....try to make sure there are no flecks sitting on the free edge or around the edges of the cuticle/nail folds. If there is, your top coat may not be covering properly, so will not seal completely around it, hereby allowing a contamination/weak point.

However, in this case, I suspect the culprit is the issue of how long to cure and with which lamp.

 

[Thebesttech]

all reputable pro gel brands besides CND cure perfectly fine,

Hi, Nancy. I understand your argument. But I believe it to be incorrect. And if the nail industry is to grow, lets get to the bottom of this issue - once and for all.

My claim that CND cures properly is an assumption, but based on primary evidence. And I'll lay out my evidence here for you so you can decide for yourself.

One of the person who worked for CND has published educational articles on the nail and nail products. This person formulated many CND products. This would be considered primary evidence and it is the basis for my assumptions and opinions, while yours is based on secondary evidence.

In the articles, the person talks about curing and what is required for proper curing. It shows full authority on the subject. I have never seen another company do this. Not even once. And these other companies exhibit the very problems that were addressed by the article.

This person defined the needs and the problems that one would encounter while formulating and working with gel products. It would make sense then, that they would formulate a product that addresses these issues. Other companies have not shown they have defined these problems. They are simply not aware of these problems.

That is why I have my conviction set on CND as the best you can possibly get.

 

[carolinejessica]

I do think this is a curing issue too. Contrary to thebesttech, all reputable pro gel brands besides CND cure perfectly fine, so I would suspect that it may be a combination of the lamp and the thickness. First, did you use your OPI lamp to cure the Premier Gel? There may be a mismatch there. Check that the OPI lamp is a proper (i.e., recommended by the manufacturer) lamp for that gel. Second, UV light does not penetrate very deep into gel, and the particles and pigment in glitter and dark colors interfere with the UV light passing through. It can make them harder to cure. Make your layers as thin as possible. You may have to do more layers in order to get the coverage you seek, but keep each coat thin.

I didn’t use the lamp which goes with the polish I used my normal one which has never failed me until now. I was wondering if using thin layers and just having to build it up slowly may help. Thank you for that

I'm not familiar with this particular brand, but from quickly googling them, they are not a 'professional' brand, in my opinion. They do not ask for your qualifications to buy, which is a HUGE red flag for me, and they do not supply a properly calibrated lamp to go with their product. So how would you know whether it's cured?....ur basically guessing!.....and that's not how a professional brand works, in my opinion.

With regard the glitter.....if it hasn't 'bubbled' on every finger, and you trust the description from your sis in law.....I tend to be careful when using glitter, whether as an actual glitter polish, or if adding it as nail art, etc. Whether it's largish flecks or shimmery glitter.....try to make sure there are no flecks sitting on the free edge or around the edges of the cuticle/nail folds. If there is, your top coat may not be covering properly, so will not seal completely around it, hereby allowing a contamination/weak point.

However, in this case, I suspect the culprit is the issue of how long to cure and with which lamp.

I totally get what your saying in regards to them being a ‘professional’ brand or not. As I say it is the first time I’ve used them, but as the owner of premier gel previous worked with the owner of the gel bottle, I was curious to see what it was like.
thank you for the glitter tip ! I will look out for this when using glitter now

 

[LEK]

I invested a lot of money initially in CND but I"m not a fan of them, but I would recommend Gellish much easier to apply and it lasts a lot longer but everyone is different and I think you just have to try out different products to see what works best for you. Prep is so important and that could be the problem although if they were ok when she left the salon then its maybe something she has been using i.e. anything acetone based or some cleaners or decorating products have very toxic stripping components to them. I don't use glitter so couldn't advise there but I would just redo for free as a sign of good faith and maybe try the same nails out again on other friends and family and see what happens there. Good luck though wishing you every success in the New Year

 

[NancySyd]

Hi, Nancy. I understand your argument. But I believe it to be incorrect. And if the nail industry is to grow, lets get to the bottom of this issue - once and for all.

My claim that CND cures properly is an assumption, but based on primary evidence. And I'll lay out my evidence here for you so you can decide for yourself.

One of the person who worked for CND has published educational articles on the nail and nail products. This person formulated many CND products. This would be considered primary evidence and it is the basis for my assumptions and opinions, while yours is based on secondary evidence.

In the articles, the person talks about curing and what is required for proper curing. It shows full authority on the subject. I have never seen another company do this. Not even once. And these other companies exhibit the very problems that were addressed by the article.

This person defined the needs and the problems that one would encounter while formulating and working with gel products. It would make sense then, that they would formulate a product that addresses these issues. Other companies have not shown they have defined these problems. They are simply not aware of these problems.

That is why I have my conviction set on CND as the best you can possibly get.

Given that this is a proprietary product, you are not likely to see many documents outside of the manufacturers on it. I assume you are referring to Doug Schoon, who has published extensively and is an excellent resource. Doug used to work for CND and is now independent. Much of my understanding of the chemistry of gel polish comes from Doug. But Doug's publications simply do not support your assertion that CND is the only brand whose curing is reliable. And Doug is not the only person to publish on the issue. Jim McConnell from Light Elegance is another example, and I doubt he would support your assertions about CND vs other brands. Our own Bob from IkonIQ has given us a great deal of info on this subject in this forum and he has not supported your statements in this forum. I doubt you could even find anyone at CND to support your assertions that other brands do not cure fully or reliably. CND is indeed an excellent brand and does not need fake "facts" to support its quality. But other brands have equally impressive R&D and have made that the cornerstone of their products. This is a highly competitive industry and it has produced many excellent products and companies.

Once again, you make overblown statements with no references or citations, and make causal connections that are illogical. "Primary evidence" of what? You said it correctly - these are "assumptions and opinions" not facts. This is important because the OP has a problem that deserves a critical analysis and solutions. She deserves more than a blanket CND-is-better statement. Again, my point is not to convince you, Your resistance to facts and logic is well known here. And I hate this bickering. My purpose is to give other techs the facts and critical thinking to make their decisions, and to support the constant quality improvement of their businesses and the profession.

 

[jlsdds]

One of the person who worked for CND has published educational articles on the nail and nail products. This person formulated many CND products.

Is this ‘one person’, Doug Schoon?

 

[jlsdds]

I think I’ve messed up with the thickness?

I personally think you had it right, too thick. You didn’t say how many layers you applied, but heavy glitter is weird.

One wants it to be smooth, but it resists with little poke-y bits. Patience and thin coats, not over-working the gel and remembering that the top coat will likely make it glossy smooth in the end.

 

[Thebesttech]

Is this ‘one person’, Doug Schoon?

I will not reveal this person's name for reasons I cannot also reveal. But the information is available for anyone who's willing to put in the work.

My research is thorough and I have amassed it over a very long period of time(4 years(10 years as a tech)).

I take offense when someone like Nancy just brushes it aside because of what shes got invested into this subject.

 

[carolinejessica]

I invested a lot of money initially in CND but I"m not a fan of them, but I would recommend Gellish much easier to apply and it lasts a lot longer but everyone is different and I think you just have to try out different products to see what works best for you. Prep is so important and that could be the problem although if they were ok when she left the salon then its maybe something she has been using i.e. anything acetone based or some cleaners or decorating products have very toxic stripping components to them. I don't use glitter so couldn't advise there but I would just redo for free as a sign of good faith and maybe try the same nails out again on other friends and family and see what happens there. Good luck though wishing you every success in the New Year

Thank you for the advise. I’ve agreed to redo them for free and I will try them on myself aswell. in the prep I Don’t think I done anything different to normal so I feel confident with that part not being the issue although you do start doubting yourself.
thank you very mucH, you too!

 

[carolinejessica]

I personally think you had it right, too thick. You didn’t say how many layers you applied, but heavy glitter is weird.

One wants it to be smooth, but it resists with little poke-y bits. Patience and thin coats, not over-working the gel and remembering that the top coat will likely make it glossy smooth in the end.

Thank you, I think this is the issue if I’m honest. I applied two coats of colour but I just think it went on far too thick. Never used a gel of that consistency, learning curve for me.
Thank you for your response

 

[NancySyd]

I will not reveal this person's name for reasons I cannot also reveal. But the information is available for anyone who's willing to put in the work.

My research is thorough and I have amassed it over a very long period of time(4 years(10 years as a tech)).

I take offense when someone like Nancy just brushes it aside because of what shes got invested into this subject.

I am not brushing it aside - there is no "it." You have laid out no evidence, no information, no research, no sources, no citations, no authors; nothing. When you deign to show it, I am sure everyone here will give it due consideration. But until then, it is unreasonable to ask that people simply accept your word.

As for the personal attack, I have been quite transparent about who and what I am. I have been a nail tech on and off for over 30 years. When gel polish came out in 2009, I came back into the field as a university researcher on new immigrant businesses. Since I come from a research background, I try to provide references for the facts I present. I retired three years ago. I have nothing invested in this subject other than my interest in helping other techs.

More importantly, this kind of bickering is beneath us and this forum. We should be dealing in facts and information, not assumptions and unsubstantiated opinion, and certainly not in attacks on each other. Let's try to lift up the tenor of the conversation and assist our colleagues in improving their skills and business and our profession. Happy New Year!

 

[Trinity]

I take offense when someone like Nancy just brushes it aside because of what shes got invested into this subject.

She hasn't brushed anything aside, she has politely and clearly offered other, valid and also well researched options. She has not disrespected CND at any point.

Saying you are offended is an absolute joke considering the amount of offence and disrespect you have caused since your arrival on the site. Hypocrisy is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.

You've been posting some valid and well balanced posts recently, it's been a pleasure to have your alternative perspective, however this means I expect better from you now than your previous behaviour.