secretstyalist
Well-Known Member
We all rent chairs from a salon, one of the girls has been booked a 12 hour day with no breaks, as we are not employees is it still illegal to be mde to work with no break for that long?
Breaks while at work
- Thread starter secretstyalist
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persianista
Well-Known Member
nope. You are self employed, and as such you control your own working day.
You have no "employment rights" when you are not employed.
You have no "employment rights" when you are not employed.
secretstyalist
Well-Known Member
We don't we are told when we have to work
persianista
Well-Known Member
Then you are not self employed, and the salon owner is in breach of HMRC rules.
secretstyalist
Well-Known Member
So as a self employed person we can choose our hours? What else?
Who booked them? Ask them if they would do 12 hours? I don't pre book a break just so if I have a foils client at say half 11 but I lunch 12 I can. Book them in.
But I would book my lunch after, keep a time slot in mind when u want breaks and book them around clients. But as you are self employed you can have as many or as little breaks as you want. If the salon dictates them ask them If they employ you and if so why haven't u had a pay slip from them xoxo
But I would book my lunch after, keep a time slot in mind when u want breaks and book them around clients. But as you are self employed you can have as many or as little breaks as you want. If the salon dictates them ask them If they employ you and if so why haven't u had a pay slip from them xoxo
secretstyalist
Well-Known Member
The salon owner books them, she is not a hairdresser her self. I am double booked a few times which makes it really hard too
Bluerinse
Well-Known Member
Tell her to jog on!! Or she can make you employed!
Love Enigma
Member
I'd clarify if you are employed or self employed with your boss. If you are employed by her she legally needs to give you breaks, if you are self employed then it's up to you what breaks you take and I would make sure you pencil them in.
Also regardless of whether you are employed or self employed I'd suggest having a word with your boss about double bookings, they're stressfull for you and it's unpleasant for the client as they will feel they are being rushed and getting a second class service which is not fair.
Hope this helps
xx
Also regardless of whether you are employed or self employed I'd suggest having a word with your boss about double bookings, they're stressfull for you and it's unpleasant for the client as they will feel they are being rushed and getting a second class service which is not fair.
Hope this helps
xxMrsHBeauty
Well-Known Member
Gosh sounds like your salon owner is out for the best deal for herself. Hope you get it sorted 12 hours flat is ridiculous x
secretstyalist
Well-Known Member
One of my clients yesterday was a lawyer specialising in employment law, she had told us our rights that we are not self employed and what she is doing us illegal but still hard to do anything about it
classixuk
Well-Known Member
Some of the advice given so far isn't quite right. Whilst it's true that a self employed person can choose their own hours i.e. whether to work/make money this week or not, don't let that confuse you into thinking that you can go to the owner of the salon and say "right, I'm not working on Tuesday or Wednesday and on Saturday I am going home at 2pm" because that's not how it works either. Not if you want to keep your job/income.
Many people (especially the young) hear from a parent/uncle/friend that they can choose all of their own hours when they are self-employed and it lands them in hot water if they start going around trying to dictate to business owners their terms. When the business owner says "I don't think so, get out of here!" they're often quite shocked.
Try to think of being self employed as a stylist as being exactly the same as a mobile hairdresser, and it begins to make sense.
When you're mobile, you will offer your client a date and time that you will provide services of her liking and choice at a price you both agree to. A contract is formed there and then where your client becomes the customer and you become the service provider. Your client expects you to turn up at the right location, at the time agreed and perform the agreed services for the time allocated and for the price you mutually agreed. You can't just call the client and demand she lets you into her house at 2AM to perform the services, or expect her to allow you to visit her on Tuesday when she is only available on a Thursday. If she is requesting you to do the service on Thursday at 3pm you have a choice as to whether you will take the appointment or not. That's what is meant by being able to "choose your own hours" when you are self employed. Once you have accepted the appointment and confirmed it with your client, you are then obliged to 'fulfil the contract' i.e. turn up and do her hair.
It is no different with a salon owner who rents space/splits commission etc. In effect, s/he becomes "your client". They are asking for an appointment every week from 9AM-5PM Mon-Fri. You agree a price and terms of contract and you are set to go. Just like a mobile client, if you mess them about by changing the agreed times or prices, they will look elsewhere for someone more reliable or able to do the job. You both have choices, in the same way you have a choice when you advertise for a builder to come build your new extension - you would tell him the price you are willing to pay, he would tell you how long it would take to do the job, he would tell you which times the crew would be turning up each morning and which days they wouldn't be working. See what I mean?
Just thought I would clear that bit up in-case you get confused.
The 12 hours booked solid though is your personal choice. If you don't mind working this way and can squeeze in some lunch while one of your colour clients are developing, then it's up to you. Make hay while the sun shines.
However, if it's more a case of the salon owner has just done a groupon or something and is filling up your appointments without any consultation to yourselves, I would nip it in the bud immediately and let them know that part of you working with them means being able to eat at lunchtime and take a quick break throughout the day when you need one. Tell her that as her salon is so busy at the moment, you will need to mark out a half hour lunch in the appointment schedule to guarantee you get time to eat.
If she refuses this basic request, come back and let us know. Otherwise, good luck!
Many people (especially the young) hear from a parent/uncle/friend that they can choose all of their own hours when they are self-employed and it lands them in hot water if they start going around trying to dictate to business owners their terms. When the business owner says "I don't think so, get out of here!" they're often quite shocked.
Try to think of being self employed as a stylist as being exactly the same as a mobile hairdresser, and it begins to make sense.
When you're mobile, you will offer your client a date and time that you will provide services of her liking and choice at a price you both agree to. A contract is formed there and then where your client becomes the customer and you become the service provider. Your client expects you to turn up at the right location, at the time agreed and perform the agreed services for the time allocated and for the price you mutually agreed. You can't just call the client and demand she lets you into her house at 2AM to perform the services, or expect her to allow you to visit her on Tuesday when she is only available on a Thursday. If she is requesting you to do the service on Thursday at 3pm you have a choice as to whether you will take the appointment or not. That's what is meant by being able to "choose your own hours" when you are self employed. Once you have accepted the appointment and confirmed it with your client, you are then obliged to 'fulfil the contract' i.e. turn up and do her hair.
It is no different with a salon owner who rents space/splits commission etc. In effect, s/he becomes "your client". They are asking for an appointment every week from 9AM-5PM Mon-Fri. You agree a price and terms of contract and you are set to go. Just like a mobile client, if you mess them about by changing the agreed times or prices, they will look elsewhere for someone more reliable or able to do the job. You both have choices, in the same way you have a choice when you advertise for a builder to come build your new extension - you would tell him the price you are willing to pay, he would tell you how long it would take to do the job, he would tell you which times the crew would be turning up each morning and which days they wouldn't be working. See what I mean?
Just thought I would clear that bit up in-case you get confused.
The 12 hours booked solid though is your personal choice. If you don't mind working this way and can squeeze in some lunch while one of your colour clients are developing, then it's up to you. Make hay while the sun shines.
However, if it's more a case of the salon owner has just done a groupon or something and is filling up your appointments without any consultation to yourselves, I would nip it in the bud immediately and let them know that part of you working with them means being able to eat at lunchtime and take a quick break throughout the day when you need one. Tell her that as her salon is so busy at the moment, you will need to mark out a half hour lunch in the appointment schedule to guarantee you get time to eat.
If she refuses this basic request, come back and let us know. Otherwise, good luck!
secretstyalist
Well-Known Member
She has done a groupon, so we are working these hours for about a pound an hour. The hours and days are getting longer and we are not allowed to say what days and hours we work,
ballyboo
Well-Known Member
You either need to speak up or leave, you can't carry on working these ridiculous hours without a break! You ALWAYS have a choice in situations like this hun so don't feel that you cant speak up. Isn't that what being self employed is about?
You have to decide if this is the kind of person you want to 'work for' and if the answer to that is no, then start looking for somewhere else.
The boss sounds greedy to me, most of them are in my experience.
Let us know how you get on xx
You have to decide if this is the kind of person you want to 'work for' and if the answer to that is no, then start looking for somewhere else.
The boss sounds greedy to me, most of them are in my experience.
Let us know how you get on xx
LauraLush
Well-Known Member
Hi This all sounds very strange to me I've got to say! You sound like an employee but she'll be laughing because she doesnt have to pay your taxes or national insurance or if you have no one in for a full day she doesnt have to worry about still paying your wages. Being self employed doesnt have many perks but some are that you are control and can choose when, where and how you work. In my opinion as a salon owner, if someone rents a chair, they are in charge of their own bookings, their own hours, their own stock.. Obviously there's salon rules for everyone to abide by in salon. There would be an arrangement with the owner to pay £x amount or so much % of your takings per day or per week.. Maybe stock, drinks supplies, etc could be included in your rent amount but if not you may have to have an arrange that between yourselves. It all seems quite simple to me. The bottom line is when you're self employed, you are running your own business.. There's no-one above you dictating to you. Of course you have to negotiate and work with others, but ultimately its your business HTH xx
This all sounds very strange to me I've got to say! You sound like an employee but she'll be laughing because she doesnt have to pay your taxes or national insurance or if you have no one in for a full day she doesnt have to worry about still paying your wages. Being self employed doesnt have many perks but some are that you are control and can choose when, where and how you work. In my opinion as a salon owner, if someone rents a chair, they are in charge of their own bookings, their own hours, their own stock.. Obviously there's salon rules for everyone to abide by in salon. There would be an arrangement with the owner to pay £x amount or so much % of your takings per day or per week.. Maybe stock, drinks supplies, etc could be included in your rent amount but if not you may have to have an arrange that between yourselves. It all seems quite simple to me. The bottom line is when you're self employed, you are running your own business.. There's no-one above you dictating to you. Of course you have to negotiate and work with others, but ultimately its your business HTH xx
Pinkprincess73
Well-Known Member
I think hmrc would have something to say about this, you are working as if you are employed by this woman, if you are self employed you choose when & where you work.
If she wants to dictate your hours to you she must pay your tax & NI.
There has been a big shake up in the tax office with regards to this in all types of industry, I would phone the tax office to ask their definition of self employed & relay back to her what their answer is.
Hope you get things sorted xx
Hi.
Im agreeing with what everyone is saying. Im self employed and i give a percentage of what i take to the owner of the salon for my rent. When i started we agreed hours/days etc and did a contract out so we both know where we stand. I only have a lunch break if i have a gap but to be honest i dont have many so just chuck and sandwich/crisps whatever down when ive finished a client 5mins earlier than planned or if my next hasnt arrived yet. Over xmas i did alot of long days, some 12 hours and didnt really have a break BUT that was my choice. To be honest when im busy i forget that im hungry! If i wanted half hour a day for lunch for example then i would book it out but id move it around to fit around my clients.
I think if i was in your position i would just speak to the owner (or all of you go to her together) and just say that you are unhappy with the situation and as you are self employed you would like a break.
If the salon im at do a promo or offer, im asked if i want to be a part of that too as im self employed. I always do but its just the fact the salon owner has asked me. What im saying is we are always communicating. If i have a problem or an issue im just honest, as is she. I wouldnt be able to do my job properly if i had something at work upsetting me. At the end if the day its where i spend most of my time!
Sort it with her, lifes too short to be unhappy. If nothing gets sorted, contact hmrc. Maybe look on their website and see if they have any info on your rights on there?
Hope u sort it. Let us know xx
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Im agreeing with what everyone is saying. Im self employed and i give a percentage of what i take to the owner of the salon for my rent. When i started we agreed hours/days etc and did a contract out so we both know where we stand. I only have a lunch break if i have a gap but to be honest i dont have many so just chuck and sandwich/crisps whatever down when ive finished a client 5mins earlier than planned or if my next hasnt arrived yet. Over xmas i did alot of long days, some 12 hours and didnt really have a break BUT that was my choice. To be honest when im busy i forget that im hungry! If i wanted half hour a day for lunch for example then i would book it out but id move it around to fit around my clients.
I think if i was in your position i would just speak to the owner (or all of you go to her together) and just say that you are unhappy with the situation and as you are self employed you would like a break.
If the salon im at do a promo or offer, im asked if i want to be a part of that too as im self employed. I always do but its just the fact the salon owner has asked me. What im saying is we are always communicating. If i have a problem or an issue im just honest, as is she. I wouldnt be able to do my job properly if i had something at work upsetting me. At the end if the day its where i spend most of my time!
Sort it with her, lifes too short to be unhappy. If nothing gets sorted, contact hmrc. Maybe look on their website and see if they have any info on your rights on there?
Hope u sort it. Let us know xx
Sent from my GT-I9000 using SalonGeek
